Arrow Arrow Season 2 Episode 17: "Birds of Prey" Rate and Review Thread

[Mikelus]

Just saw the episode myself, and maybe it's just my own preferences, but does anyone else have issues with Oliver, as a character in the series as I do after seeing this episode?

I mean this episode pretty much reinforced and highlighted on how much of a hypocrite and selfish Oliver is right now.

I mean he says that Thea is the one thing that's keeping Roy in check, and the first thing that he does is to cut off that one good tie.

Then he tells Black Canary to not get involved with the situation with the Huntress because he's afraid that she'll kill her, despite the fact that he was willing to kill Slade without any hesitation or second thought. And it doesn't take a genius to know that Helena had been on a killing spree for a long time. It's only because this doesn't involve Oliver's family, which Sara brought up, that Oliver doesn't resort to killing right away.

And man, Oliver must be like the worst partner/love interest a woman could possibly have.lol I mean he's in a relationship with Sara, and it's pretty evident that he still cares a lot about Laurel, and he even said that he still loves her, and then if I didn't know it any better, it looks like he still has a thing for Helena...and all the while, he's keeping Felicity in the palm of his fingers.

If Oliver was a woman, you can pretty much guarantee that Oliver would be called a lot of names that i'm not permitted to say here.lol

I seriously hope that Barry Allen won't suffer from the same fate as Oliver when it comes to how he's written as a character.

Oliver is the world's biggest hypocrite and ****e.

The writing is a problem indeed, but is not a surprise, producers Greg Berlanti and Marc Guggenheim also wrote the Green Lantern movie. The whole Roy and Thea break up was dumb and unnecessary, all Roy had to say was that he needed some time alone and be done with it, but no, they had to force the teen drama.

Also, they continue their very poor job of the Huntress (still too psychotic after a year), lets not forget she killed several US Marshals back in The Huntress Returns, she could get the death penalty for that, no wonder why many fans hate this version. The best way out of this mess is by having Helena (with Team Arrow's help) fake her death so she can start over instead of being a fugitive for the rest of her life... we'll see.

Yet some trolls say Arrow is better than the DC films when even their Amanda Waller would have to be recast for the movies.

It seems many are not that happy with the episode either: http://www.tv.com/shows/arrow/commu...2-episode-17-canary-vs-huntress-139578456688/

 

[Mikelus]

It's going to backfire majorly on them if they kill off Sara to try to build up
laurel.

Laurel's sure like to rewrite history when it comes to Tommy.I didn't see anything heroic from her last night.They have done nothing to make Laurel
more likable.

So what can the producers do to make you like her? She's getting better, she has virtues and flaws like any person, she acknowledges her faults, she's not a killer like Sara, Helena... and more fans are liking the character better lately. I guess you just hate the actress like many hate Caity Lotz and Jessica De Gouw, to each its own.

 

[The_Manhunter]

Switching between this and the Heat game is stressful

Shouldn't be. #GoBulls

 

[godisawesome]

This is the only Huntress appearance I actually approved of, but only because Degouw proved she had some serious chops in the latter half of the episode, and I liked the more ambiguous nature of her and her father's feelings on each other at the end. Frank seemed sincerely regretful, and there was some genuine pathos in her final reflections on how she was alone now. Hopefully, this does mark the end of the misfire of her depiction and a greater focus on doing the character justice. They even came up with a way for her to ditch her previous costume, so maybe we'll see a better version in the future.

The Roy/Thea subplot started off actually pretty funny; Roy reflexively Vulcan-nerve-pinching the one guy before failing miserably at breaking up with Thea was a nice portrayal of how stupid the idea was. I really hope they highlight how stupid this was a of a decision for Ollie to push on Roy later. It only highlights both Ollie's own flaws and how much Thea's being lied to by everyone around her.

 

[herolee10]

I don't get it, is Ollie supposed to be this paragon of all that is good and right with the world ? I bored my self to death just typing that.

I'm not asking for oliver to be a saint. I'm just wishing that they would make him a lot more likable as a person. He's still pretty much the same selfish kid before the island. He chastises his mother for all of her lies when he's pretty much the biggest liar there is.

 

[Human Torch]

I don't disagree with the Ollie criticisms.(I honestly think the rift with Moira was the most ill written thing in the whole series)but I just see him as a flawed hero..You can't do that with some heroes like Superman,for example.But For Arrow,I feel it works.*shrug*

 

[herolee10]

I don't disagree with the Ollie criticisms.(I honestly think the rift with Moira was the most ill written thing in the whole series)but I just see him as a flawed hero..You can't do that with some heroes like Superman,for example.But For Arrow,I feel it works.*shrug*

True.lol though it's funny on how I find tony stark more likable than oliver considering that they are supposed to have similar characteristics

 

[Golgo-13]

I didn't like this past ep. The island stuff was cool but Sarah and Laurel sitting right next to each other, and Laurel not realizing it was Sarah was just

 

[Dagenspear]

I'm not asking for oliver to be a saint. I'm just wishing that they would make him a lot more likable as a person. He's still pretty much the same selfish kid before the island. He chastises his mother for all of her lies when he's pretty much the biggest liar there is.

Yeah. Oliver doesn't have to be perfect, he just has to be not a completely unlikable *****ebag. Even declining years Smallville did a better job of that.

 

[Boy Scout]

Jessica De Gouw did a great job. I was expecting her character to be recruited into the Suicide Squad at the end. No matter where she goes, I hope we get to see her again next season.

Why didn't Helena ever threaten to expose Oliver? She had several opportunities to do so, and I never got the impression that it even crossed her mind. She didn't refer to him by name during any of their phone conversations (convenient) and neglected to mention his vigilante activities when they were twenty feet from each other in the courthouse (doubly convenient).

I found it really hard to believe that Laurel didn't recognize Sara, but I will concede that just enough was done to make it semi-plausible. What I don't understand is why Sara allowed Laurel to put herself in danger after making a big fuss about wanting to protect her. She could have easily knocked her out or dragged her out of the building.

Felicity has (conveniently) been tracking Helena for a year, but didn't say anything about her murder spree until it directly affected the people in her "social" circle? Wow.

I was very happy with Laurel and what they were doing with her until the end. I'm not particularly interested in seeing her go dark (assuming, of course, that's what they were hinting at) after spending 45 minutes watching her get her groove back. I will say that blackmailing her boss into rehiring her is more believable to me than Adam conveniently calling in a few favors at the last minute.

I'm very happy that Thea is being written as an intelligent young adult. She knows Roy is purposely trying to push her away and isn't falling for his antics. Good girl. I also enjoyed her run in with Slade at the end.

Speaking of Slade: I love that he was the one to give Oliver his tattoo. I wasn't expecting that at all.

The island stuff was pretty good. CL's acting was shaky at times, but she was fine overall.

Quentin: "Watch your back. Watch your partner's back." I really liked that line, as well as the delivery.

Diggle. Why were you even here? It looked like Ramsey was wondering the same thing.

Overall, this episode wasn't as good as it could've been, but was a lot better than last week's. 6.5/10 (I'll round it up to a 7 for the poll).

 

[Paradox1]

Oliver Queen and Bruce Wayne have a lot in common on the surface. Where they are different is for Bruce being a *****ebag is an act for the world. For Oliver that is not an act he's actually a *****e. That's okay though because his flaws are what make human.

 

[BLACKVULCAN]

Overall i dug it! another good episode! the only thing i didnt like was Ollie telling Roy to stay away from Thea... on the one hand i know that this Ollie during his formative years and he still has alot to learn about being a hero!
on the other dude!! if you were scared about a psychopath with one eye going after your family wouldnt you want a super strong, can heal himself real fast person to watch over your kid sister so you can concentrate on finding that guy and put an arrow in him!!!!
and speaking of Slade that dude is evil! shocking the %^&*outta Ollie was wrong! but that makes for a very good bad guy!


and Mannnn! if they kill off Sara to have laurel take her place i am going to be so pissed... i will still watch it but i wont be happy!

 

[The Gaige]

It sucked cause I want this back http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0312098/ or at lest a reboot of the show!

 

[Loki882]

Relax! Ollie was a murderer too but he was redeemed. There seemed to be signs at the end of the episode signaling redemption for Helena.

Helena does seem pretty insane but I think she can be redeemed. Sara was in the league of assassins. I'm pretty sure she did some terrible things during her time in the league.

I'm thinking Helena is going to have a bumpy road ahead of her, but I think eventually she will come to resemble the Helena of the comics

Sorry, but comparing Oliver and comic book Helena to show Helena doesn't work, they're not the same thing. Oliver never murdered a bunch of cops who were just doing their jobs (neither did comic book Helena). Oliver never held innocent people hostage to satisfy a petty personal vendetta (neither did comic book Helena). The show was already pushing their luck with Helena LAST season, but this might have been the final straw. It'll take some brilliant writing for me to EVER buy her as a hero. You make her a multiple-cop killer, you've had her cross a line, period.

 

[Loki882]

For what its worth, I don't read the comics or care very much for to keeping close to the source, so I suppose as a member of the general audience, I don't really care that Huntress isn't a hero, and it would be a little ridiculous for her just to be a hero. I like the psycho in her, and its nice to have a character on the show completely access that.

Then don't call her the Huntress, because she's not. She doesn't even remotely resemble the Huntress. If you want to make her an evil psycho, fine, but then call her something else.

 

[Shikamaru]

Why didn't Helena ever threaten to expose Oliver? She had several opportunities to do so, and I never got the impression that it even crossed her mind. She didn't refer to him by name during any of their phone conversations (convenient) and neglected to mention his vigilante activities when they were twenty feet from each other in the courthouse (doubly convenient).

She had no solid evidence. It wouldn't lead to anything.

 

[Hunter Rider]

Ollie needs to give up on Helena, she's a lost cause at this point. I thought they were going to have Laurel talk her down but nope, she went straight ahead like a loon.

I was looking forward to seeing the Ladies take center stage but it was the Lance sisters that I found myself enjoying. Their interactions at the Law office and at the Courthouse were great and continued the development of Laurel's recent turnaround. As opposed to the Canary vs Huntress stuff that had forced banter and whose fight scenes were very poor by this shows standards.

I also enjoyed the stuff with Roy and Thea. His struggle is playing out very well and I'm glad they aren't rushing it. Meanwhile Thea's development from reactionary, troubled teen, to smart, independent business woman has been refreshing. The way she has stood by Roy, read more than the surface and been incredibly loyal made him crushing her all the more of a gut punch.

 

[DrCosmic]

I didn't like this past ep. The island stuff was cool but Sarah and Laurel sitting right next to each other, and Laurel not realizing it was Sarah was just

Looked her dead in her face and said, "Oh, a stranger."

Jessica De Gouw did a great job. I was expecting her character to be recruited into the Suicide Squad at the end. No matter where she goes, I hope we get to see her again next season.

Why didn't Helena ever threaten to expose Oliver? She had several opportunities to do so, and I never got the impression that it even crossed her mind. She didn't refer to him by name during any of their phone conversations (convenient) and neglected to mention his vigilante activities when they were twenty feet from each other in the courthouse (doubly convenient).

I found it really hard to believe that Laurel didn't recognize Sara, but I will concede that just enough was done to make it semi-plausible. What I don't understand is why Sara allowed Laurel to put herself in danger after making a big fuss about wanting to protect her. She could have easily knocked her out or dragged her out of the building.

Felicity has (conveniently) been tracking Helena for a year, but didn't say anything about her murder spree until it directly affected the people in her "social" circle? Wow.

I was very happy with Laurel and what they were doing with her until the end. I'm not particularly interested in seeing her go dark (assuming, of course, that's what they were hinting at) after spending 45 minutes watching her get her groove back. I will say that blackmailing her boss into rehiring her is more believable to me than Adam conveniently calling in a few favors at the last minute.

I'm very happy that Thea is being written as an intelligent young adult. She knows Roy is purposely trying to push her away and isn't falling for his antics. Good girl. I also enjoyed her run in with Slade at the end.

Speaking of Slade: I love that he was the one to give Oliver his tattoo. I wasn't expecting that at all.

The island stuff was pretty good. CL's acting was shaky at times, but she was fine overall.

Quentin: "Watch your back. Watch your partner's back." I really liked that line, as well as the delivery.

Diggle. Why were you even here? It looked like Ramsey was wondering the same thing.

Overall, this episode wasn't as good as it could've been, but was a lot better than last week's. 6.5/10 (I'll round it up to a 7 for the poll).

Lol, yeah, this Diggle underuse thing is getting pretty bad.

I also think they handled Laurel superbly. I think they have for a few weeks actually.

This is the only Huntress appearance I actually approved of, but only because Degouw proved she had some serious chops in the latter half of the episode, and I liked the more ambiguous nature of her and her father's feelings on each other at the end. Frank seemed sincerely regretful, and there was some genuine pathos in her final reflections on how she was alone now. Hopefully, this does mark the end of the misfire of her depiction and a greater focus on doing the character justice. They even came up with a way for her to ditch her previous costume, so maybe we'll see a better version in the future.

I really don't have a problem with them taking the character dark. Huntress has always started on the cold blooded killer side of the vigilante club. If Arrow is already there, then Huntress has to start even darker. I think this episode started that, from here, Suicide Squad, and after that, the sky's the limit.

The Roy/Thea subplot started off actually pretty funny; Roy reflexively Vulcan-nerve-pinching the one guy before failing miserably at breaking up with Thea was a nice portrayal of how stupid the idea was. I really hope they highlight how stupid this was a of a decision for Ollie to push on Roy later. It only highlights both Ollie's own flaws and how much Thea's being lied to by everyone around her.

I think a lot's riding on that for me. Does this show have the cajones to let their lead be wrong... and he is really wrong right about now for all the reasons mentioned above. If the show is grounded enough to deliver on Ollie being a world class *****e about now, from hypocricy to mishandling all his romantic relationships, if Ollie is allowed to own that, then the show can grow. The show lampshades it so well, it's hard to imagine the writers not seeing what we're seeing, but at the same time... there's no sign of Ollie making stupid decisions (like separating Roy from Speedy) actually coming back to bite Ollie. Ollie's too busy with Deathstroke anyway.

Could be that breakdown happens during the last few episodes of the season. Team Arrow breaks up. Could be fun.

 

[Boy Scout]

She had no solid evidence. It wouldn't lead to anything.

Not the point. If you were in Helena's position, you would know Oliver would come after you, and you would want to use every advantage you have against him to either keep him at bay or away from you entirely. What better way to do that than threaten to expose him?

She wouldn't have needed proof because the idea of him being the vigilante being introduced to the police (again) or the city at large (again) would have been troubling enough. Even if she did need some proof, it probably wouldn't have been hard to get.

 

[DrCosmic]

Then don't call her the Huntress, because she's not. She doesn't even remotely resemble the Huntress. If you want to make her an evil psycho, fine, but then call her something else.

She's not an evil psycho, she's in a great deal of pain, which they resolved beautifully this episode. She, like Laurel, like Ollie like any realistic person has to get worse to get better. She was also raised by a mob boss, it doesn't make sense for her to be as noble as she was in the comics, nor does it make for a contrast with Ollie who is about as dark as comics Helena, so making CW Helena only as dark as comics Helena doesn't provide the contrast you have between comics heroes and comics Helena. New universe, new story, means playing the same role looks different.

 

[Boy Scout]

I'm perfectly okay with what they've done with the character, but that's probably because I never had an invested interest in her to begin with. I just wish De Gouw had been as engaging in her last two episodes as she was in this one.

 

[herolee10]

I also enjoyed the stuff with Roy and Thea. His struggle is playing out very well and I'm glad they aren't rushing it. Meanwhile Thea's development from reactionary, troubled teen, to smart, independent business woman has been refreshing. The way she has stood by Roy, read more than the surface and been incredibly loyal made him crushing her all the more of a gut punch.

I gotta admit, Thea is definitely one of a kind, especially for CW female characters standard since she's been incredibly patient with a lot of Roy's "mood swings" for the entire season, and even now, she still gives him some benefit of the doubt.

I feel like this just makes Oliver's decision to force Roy into giving up Thea, his one true good connection that calms him down, into a bigger ass than he already is.

Frankly, the show really does a good job in reminding me at times on why Oliver Queen/Green Arrow isn't exactly considered one of DC's greatest heroes in stature. It's not a problem to make mistakes here and there, but to constantly be making them, and without realizing it..now that's a problem.lol

 

[Human Torch]

I still can't get how everyone gripes over the secret identity thing.It's a staple of the comics and it's (as of now) the only element live action DC is doing better than Marvel.The voice changer,the hood/hair in the face,covered by darkness should be enough to earn them decent "suspension of disbelief" points.


Digg had his moment last week (and frankly in retrospect it was fairly underwhelming).I don't really know what people expect from him.He's not really a "field man",so he's not always gonna have a ton to do.I've advocated suiting him up,but to be honest there's already enough masked heroes in the Arrow cave.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I see the Huntress as the Faith (BTVS) of this series, just not as interesting.

 

[Glassjaw]

During the Laurel and Black Canary conversation, I think they used a camera angle roughly from Laurel's POV to show Sarah was hiding her face with her hair, there was a big part of it draped down across her face, but camera angle only got that partially across.

I thought this episode would be more about redeeming the Huntress, but we did actually get to see her start that arc right at the end at the police station. As for keeping Ollie's secret, she basically admitted he was right all along, that her father being dead didn't change anything about how she felt. She had no reasion to betray Oliver and not keep his secret. I guess the old Huntress would make a deal with the police to reveal the vigilante's identity and get her sentence reduced or something, but that's not who she was by the end of the episode. I think she's done trying to hurt the few people who still give a damn about her.