BvS Ben Affleck IS Batman - - - Part 15

[georgec]

I don't think it's quite that simple. People who genuinely admired Burton and Raimi's take on their beloved characters from the start haven't exactly changed their tune. Over time, some may have come to acknowledge certain flaws they hadn't picked up on prior to repeat viewings; and, in that sense, their opinions merely evolved. You also have fanboys/fangirls who are quick to declare newly released films as "the best thing ever" without properly evaluating a given product; deconstruction usually comes later. Those who fall in the latter camp tend to be very fickle-minded. Their likes and dislikes change with the wind.

That's the point, though, and I think we're on the same page. People might evolve their views over time, but the discussions get skewed into these extremist camps of which thing sucks and which thing is amazing. Every work has merits and flaws. The people who recognize that aren't as mercurial and can take a more balanced approach to the discussions, but they're usually drowned out by more vocal and less reasonable camps.

 

[SKSpawn]

I think the biggest worry I have about Affleck isn't that he won't be a decent enough Batman, it's more his committment to the character.

I mean, this is the guy who spouted out the usual media-BS about how much he "loved DareDevil" and grew up "reading the comics" and all the usual stuff, then some time after DareDevil, during that Hollywoodland movie, I believe, he decided that he hated the idea of "dressing up" (arguably all actors ever do) as superheroes and would "never" do it again.

For me, the problem is, if this Batman/Superman movie does defy our expectations and turn out to be really good and it leads into not only the Justice League movie but a new series of Batman films...will Affleck come back as Batman? Something nags at me that, unless he is under an iron-tight contract to do so, he just isn't reliable or negotiable enough to reprise the role more than once...twice, at a push...that an unknown, or relatively unknown, yet equally talented other actor would be.

I hope to be wrong, and kind of trust him to pull Batman off...but do I trust him to come back? Not particularly, right now.

 

[SpideyFan866]

I think there's a good chance that the Batman films in the new cinematic universe will consist of prequels and/or solo films with extensive flashbacks.

This way, to give Affleck less to do. Especially if he decides to direct some of the batfilms

 

[slumcat]

I don't think it's quite that simple. People who genuinely admired Burton and Raimi's take on their beloved characters from the start haven't exactly changed their tune. Over time, some may have come to acknowledge certain flaws they hadn't picked up on prior to repeat viewings; and, in that sense, their opinions merely evolved. You also have fanboys/fangirls who are quick to declare newly released films as "the best thing ever" without properly evaluating a given product; deconstruction usually comes later. Those who fall in the latter camp tend to be very fickle-minded. Their likes and dislikes change with the wind.

Yep exactly. I think Burton's films were better though Nolan films have their merits, atleast the second one does. And I think the Riami films are magnificent, the first two I mean and the new Andrew Gardfield ones are awful, like F grade drivel awful. So yeah, no revisionism there.

 

[slumcat]

I think the biggest worry I have about Affleck isn't that he won't be a decent enough Batman, it's more his committment to the character.

I mean, this is the guy who spouted out the usual media-BS about how much he "loved DareDevil" and grew up "reading the comics" and all the usual stuff, then some time after DareDevil, during that Hollywoodland movie, I believe, he decided that he hated the idea of "dressing up" (arguably all actors ever do) as superheroes and would "never" do it again.

For me, the problem is, if this Batman/Superman movie does defy our expectations and turn out to be really good and it leads into not only the Justice League movie but a new series of Batman films...will Affleck come back as Batman? Something nags at me that, unless he is under an iron-tight contract to do so, he just isn't reliable or negotiable enough to reprise the role more than once...twice, at a push...that an unknown, or relatively unknown, yet equally talented other actor would be.

I hope to be wrong, and kind of trust him to pull Batman off...but do I trust him to come back? Not particularly, right now.

Oh there's always money. There getting Downey for Avengers 2 and 3 for 100 million dollars, apparently the biggest payday ever for an actor.

So if they really want Affleck, they will offer him the money.

 

[Krumm]

That's the point, though, and I think we're on the same page. People might evolve their views over time, but the discussions get skewed into these extremist camps of which thing sucks and which thing is amazing. Every work has merits and flaws. The people who recognize that aren't as mercurial and can take a more balanced approach to the discussions, but they're usually drowned out by more vocal and less reasonable camps.

I think one problem is that conversations bounce around from topic to topic over the course of months/years and give the sense of extremism, when it's probably just illusion. For instance, someone may read my defense of few aspects of a movie over the course of a month and may assume that I love the movie. But in reality I may just think it's fine, it just so happens that what I see as negatives hasn't come up yet or that person hasn't seen those posts. There are occasions when I see a poster list their favorite cbms, like the other day, and I'm surprised as to where certain films fall because, personally, I've only ever seen him/her post one side of the argument.

Then there is also the recall factor. For me, I often get people's opinions confused and mistake them for other posters because there are so many of us on here.

 

[slumcat]

I think one problem is that conversations bounce around from topic to topic over the course of months/years and give the sense of extremism, when it's probably just illusion. For instance, someone may read my defense of few aspects of a movie over the course of a month and may assume that I love the movie. But in reality I may just think it's fine, it just so happens that what I see as negatives hasn't come up yet or that person hasn't seen those posts. There are occasions when I see a poster list their favorite cbms, like the other day, and I'm surprised as to where certain films fall because, personally, I've only ever seen him/her post one side of the argument.

Then there is also the recall factor. For me, I often get people's opinions confused and mistake them for other posters because there are so many of us on here.

Very true! Honestly, who remembers or wants to remember?

That is why I always say that people should respond to a post and not to poster. Meaning comment solely on what the poster has said and not the poster himself/herself. It's crass to make a reference to something someone said months and months ago. We are after all mostly under pseudo names here. The beauty of this construct is that we are not judging each other as persons or estimating each other as persons but as individual posts. So if someone has written something interesting that you want to respond to, respond to it and that's it.

But what I present is an idealized scenario and it rarely translates into practice.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Let's be honest.

If Batfleck is remotely decent, we will have endless revisionist declarations from trolls that the nolan movies were never good.

Well then let me just say now before it comes out that the only Nolan Bat movie I like is Batman Begins.

 

[Travesty]

Same here.

 

[The Endless]

I love Begins and TDK. But i'm ready for another interpretation of Batman. A more bad ass, grizzled vet Batman could be awesome to see on screen. With Snyders visual flair i'm expecting some cool moments for Batman that will at least rival TWS, in terms of doing the hero justice in the action scenes. The way Evans, the choreographers and Russos made Cap a total bad ass is what i want to see for Batsy. A Batman who is obsessed and resigned to the fact he's on this mission forever. Maybe a little too cynical/borderline fascist, like Miller's. He's got bat drones and surveillance etc.

But eventually Kal becomes the beacon of hope that even inspires Bruce.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Listen, The Nolan Franchise was (mostly) great

2 out of 3 isn't bad at all!

 

[hafizbat]

Hope they touch on this for Batfleck.

 

[regwec]

Yeah, the first couple were good. I think there is a tendency among some of us nerds to prefer the new to the old, and an equal tendency amongst others to always favour the old to the new. Nevertheless, a lot of people are fairly consistent in their opinions. The impression that there is a "shift" in opinion probably comes about because absurd claims (both laudatory and pejorative) are made about the new thing, and that leads to a vociferous, corrective comparison with the old.

 

[Harley2004]

Brace yourself. It happened after BB/TDK with the Burton movies, and it happened with TASM and the Raimi movies. It will happen again!

No it won't. That's the biggest thing these movies have to live up to, the dark Knight. It'll be interesting someone trying to argue the dark Knight is not a good movie, no matter what comes out from Warner.

Snyder'a movies are really well directed, but they're not what Nolan's were, what are you going to do? That is what has already happened, and will happen again.

 

[The Man of HEEL]

You'll notice his batvoice is much less dramatic in BB, like he's taking more cues from Keaton. I lead towards the suit from TDK/TDKR as one of the big reasons for his awful batvoice in the sequels.

 

[shauner111]

I love Begins and TDK. But i'm ready for another interpretation of Batman. A more bad ass, grizzled vet Batman could be awesome to see on screen. With Snyders visual flair i'm expecting some cool moments for Batman that will at least rival TWS, in terms of doing the hero justice in the action scenes. The way Evans, the choreographers and Russos made Cap a total bad ass is what i want to see for Batsy. A Batman who is obsessed and resigned to the fact he's on this mission forever. Maybe a little too cynical/borderline fascist, like Miller's. He's got bat drones and surveillance etc.

But eventually Kal becomes the beacon of hope that even inspires Bruce.

Me too. I love Nolan's entire trilogy but im ready for the mid 40s Batman who has been at it for 15 years straight. Grey/Black suit, a car for a batmobile, a bat-family (somewhat), Snyders visuals (specifically how he shoots NiteOwl/Rorschach), Winter Soldier-esque fight choreography. I would like to see Affleck look like the B:TAS Bruce Wayne, with an Arkham City type suit. But a more Alex Ross-Kingdom Come type of characterization. I dont mind some hints of Frank Miller either but don't go too far.

Superman should still be the lead without being a little ***** like portrayed by Miller.

But the writing and acting is even more important than all of those visuals that i hope to see. That's where Snyder might fall short.

 

[shauner111]

You'll notice his batvoice is much less dramatic in BB, like he's taking more cues from Keaton. I lead towards the suit from TDK/TDKR as one of the big reasons for his awful batvoice in the sequels.

He wasn't taking cues from Keaton or anybody. It's because Nolan distorted the voice in post-production for TDK and TDKR. Especially Dark Knight. It has nothing to do with the suit.

 

[MrsKent26]

He wasn't taking cues from Keaton or anybody. It's because Nolan distorted the voice in post-production for TDK and TDKR. Especially Dark Knight. It has nothing to do with the suit.

Really? I didn't know Nolan messed with the voice.

 

[shauner111]

Snyder'a movies are really well directed, but they're not what Nolan's were, what are you going to do? That is what has already happened, and will happen again.

They're really not. He's good at visuals but he's not a very good director.

 

[The Man of HEEL]

Really? I didn't know Nolan messed with the voice.

This. I know about Bane but never heard about Bale.

 

[shauner111]

It's common knowledge, at least on the bat-boards for many years.

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Why can't we simply enjoy the different incarnations of Batman put to film the same way we do when he's put to print? There is no "definitive" take, and if we'd all just learn to enjoy the various versions for what they are, we'd all be much happier.

 

[Krumm]

Funny. I didn't know that either.

I remember when those screen test were released, Bale does a very similar voice in his and he is quoted as regretting the voice, so I would think that it is at least Bale's invention -- regardless of any post tweaking.

http://www.mtv.com/news/1717617/christian-bale-batman-audition/

 

[guitarsingerguy]

Funny. I didn't know that either.

I remember when those screen test were released, Bale does a very similar voice in his and he is quoted as regretting the voice, so I would think that it is at least Bale's invention -- regardless of any post tweaking.

http://www.mtv.com/news/1717617/christian-bale-batman-audition/

Yeah. I seem to remember he and his wife discussing how he blew it because of the voice.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

Really? I didn't know Nolan messed with the voice.

I wasn't aware of that, myself.