BvS Ben Affleck IS Batman - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 39

[Tacit Ronin]

Damn, Denzel is one good looking dude.

 

[craigdbfan]

Batman in the JL cartoon's was very unlikable.

Affleck's Batman was very similar. I loved it.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

Batman in the JL cartoon's was very unlikable.

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[The Guard]

A medic performing CPR is cinematic shorthand for that guy not dying. If they wanted to show Batman's actions as truly lethal, you'd see covered bodies being wheeled out.

Granted, for all we know, that security guard is having CPR performed because one of his fellow guards accidentally shot him or something during the fracas...

In the scene where Batman has dropped all the security guards...the immoral brutality of it is kind of the point. That's he's gone way, way too far. That his obsessions have led to this kind of desperate violence. That's the whole point of his character arc in this film. This "descent into madness".

And that's just too much for a lot of people with regard to this character. You're not supposed to like it, but I think filmmakers thought people would look at it as an exploration of the concept of Batman, not just a bastardization of it.

 

[Kanye West]

A medic performing CPR is cinematic shorthand for that guy not dying. If they wanted to show his actions as truly lethal, you'd see covered bodies being wheeled out.

Granted, for all we know, that security guard is having CPR performed because one of his fellow guards accidentally shot him or something during the fracas, but...

In the scene where Batman has dropped all the security guards...the immoral brutality of it is kind of the point. That's he's gone way, way too far. That his obsessions have led to this kind of desperate violence. That's the whole point of his character arc in this film. This "descent into madness".

And that's just too much for a lot of people.

it is so mind boggling that people have a problem with this.

 

[LEVITIKUZ]

How could I forget this?

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Justice League/Justice League Unlimited Batman was far from unlikable.

 

[Doctor Octopus]

What's there to get?

>Batman puts tracker on truck
>Batman attacks truck minutes later
>Truck gets away

If Batman didn't attack it, there would be no difference except that Superman wouldn't have wrecked the Batmobile.

The scene was ****ing pointless and the film doesn't change if you add it or take it out.

lol I never understand why he chase that truck when he already have tracker on it. Affleck Batman is so stupid.

An EMT is seen trying to resuscitate one of Batman's victims.


The film doesn't specify, and it doesn't really matter to me either way. Sure, let's say that victim could have been a genuinely bad guy: did Batman just assume that everyone employed by Luthor or Luthor's PMC were automatically bad people and that it was okay to kill them? Or did Batman do a comprehensive background check on every employee to compile an exhaustive Kill List of who it was okay to use lethal force against? I doubt it, considering he doesn't even look into Superman that carefully, and the whole premise of the film is that Batman has become unthinkingly cruel.

See, this is why it's a problem: every option completely ruins the character for me. Batman either A) believes he has the right to arbitrate who deserves death, or B) Batman just doesn't care if they deserve death or not and kills them because they're trying to stop him.

That's the ugly truth of it: most of the people Batman kills in this movie (Martha's rescue being the exception) he does so because it's the easiest way to succeed in his plan to kill Superman. A Batman who kills not in defense of others, but because it's easy.

It's technically true there's no such thing as an "inaccurate interpretation", but that doesn't mean all interpretations are equally good. We can debate why certain aspects are important to certain characters and why it wouldn't be a good idea to change them; Batman's no-kill rule is one of them.

Honestly, it all boils down to values. Gotham at its core is the embodiment of the worst aspects of New York, which in turn is the embodiment of modern Anglo-American society. What draws most people to Batman is the idea of a person challenging that aspect of society without losing his humanity in the process, which is something even the best NYPD officers often won't be able to do. It makes Batman a more complex character.

Mind you, that's not to say every hero should have a strict no-kill rule. Each hero embodies different values and ideas from the others, and in Batman's case he's been the embodiment of the no-kill rule to the same extent the Punisher's been the embodiment of the death penalty. It's one of the things that has always drawn so many people to Batman (or drawn people away from him), even moreso than with Superman IMO. He's one of the only characters in all of comics whose reasons for not killing go beyond just "I'm a superhero".

He's similar to older characters like Robin Hood in that sense, who also embodies a specific core of values. You can make a version of Robin Hood who steals from the poor and gives it to the rich, there's no rule which says you can't, but most people will argue good reasons as to why it should be the other way around and why changing Robin Hood to that radical extent would make him less interesting.

Agreed. These posts are so good.

A medic performing CPR is cinematic shorthand for that guy not dying. If they wanted to show Batman's actions as truly lethal, you'd see covered bodies being wheeled out.

Granted, for all we know, that security guard is having CPR performed because one of his fellow guards accidentally shot him or something during the fracas...

In the scene where Batman has dropped all the security guards...the immoral brutality of it is kind of the point. That's he's gone way, way too far. That his obsessions have led to this kind of desperate violence. That's the whole point of his character arc in this film. This "descent into madness".

And that's just too much for a lot of people with regard to this character. You're not supposed to like it, but I think filmmakers thought people would look at it as an exploration of the concept of Batman, not just a bastardization of it.

Alfred not even say how bad Bruce killing is so it not surprise they not show covered bodies to show how very bad Batman is when his own butler not even make a big deal out of it lol.

Batman attacks with his big Batmobile and kills criminals but Guard is getting CPR because other guard shot him. Not likely lol.

Why fans keep saying Batman arc is he turns bad when they try to defend it. Everyone know it meant to be that. That not make it ok. Still bad story. Really bad way to do Batman. Snyder not get him or Superman.

 

[Saint]

In the scene where Batman has dropped all the security guards...the immoral brutality of it is kind of the point. That's he's gone way, way too far. That his obsessions have led to this kind of desperate violence. That's the whole point of his character arc in this film. This "descent into madness".

And that's just too much for a lot of people with regard to this character. You're not supposed to like it, but I think filmmakers thought people would look at it as an exploration of the concept of Batman, not just a bastardization of it.

More or less. Knightfall tackled similar ideas, though through the proxy of Jean Paul Valley.

 

[Corko]

Saw it again yesterday. Loved the bit where that lad stabs batman and he pulls it out and stabs him in the very same place. My favourite batman moment ever.

 

[I Am The Knight]

Your favorite Batman moment ever is Batman stabbing someone?

 

[matt47]

I have to say I did like that bit.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Your favorite Batman moment ever is Batman stabbing someone?

Either that or when he blows the fat guy up in Returns. Or the time when he sodomized all those kids... no wait, that was in Salo

 

[I Am The Knight]

Either that or when he blows the fat guy up in Returns. Or the time when he sodomized all those kids... no wait, that was in Salo

Sickening...

 

[Rodrigo90]

But quite humorous!

I'm surprised Batman didn't say something Bond-ish after that

 

[Loki882]

Or an Arnold-like one-liner.

And as for "there is no inaccurate take on the character," well they could do a take on Batman where he guns down jaywalkers on the street, or beats up people who litter (hey they're criminals to after all), or drop-kick puppies when he gets annoyed. But I'm pretty sure that most people would say that that's not a particularly good take on the character.

 

[Rodrigo90]

Bond: Must've been something he ate.
Arnie: You've blown it with me

 

[Predator jp]

Sickening...

we didn't see him actually died so he could've gotten away...

 

[Travesty]

Saw it again yesterday. Loved the bit where that lad stabs batman and he pulls it out and stabs him in the very same place. My favourite batman moment ever.

Yeah, I liked that part, too. You could hear Batman scream a bit, and then he just stabs him back.

I loved how brutal his fighting was in this.

 

[The Joker]

More or less. Knightfall tackled similar ideas, though through the proxy of Jean Paul Valley.

I didn't mind that though, since Jean Paul Valley is not Batman. And even Jean Paul had the excuse of having his mind brain washed by the Order of St. Dumas.

we didn't see him actually died so he could've gotten away...

The bomb blows up a second later. Who is he The Flash

 

[FunkMiller]

lol I never understand why he chase that truck when he already have tracker on it. Affleck Batman is so stupid.
.

You know, I can give that one a pass, because you could argue that Batfleck fired the tracker onto the truck as a contingency measure in case it got away from him during the chase. It still sounds goofy, but you can justify it if you want.

What you can't justify is the big-chinned idiot then driving his Batmobile through the side of the very same truck he just attached the tracker to, in more or less exactly the same place.

Not only did he outright kill someone, he also could quite easily have destroyed the tracker - his only way of tracing the truck had it got away from him. Sheer bloody idiocy.

 

[shauner111]

It might be the most idiotic move in the history of Batman on film.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

But quite humorous!

I'm surprised Batman didn't say something Bond-ish after that

How about a James Bond who is a pacifist, monogamist, orange juice drinker? If people tell me that's a wrong take on the character I'd tell them to stop having preconceptions of the character. This is a BOLD new take.

 

[Doctor Jones]

My God, the fans with their 15 year old sensibilities have finally come true in Zack Snyder. All their wishes of making Batman more hardcore and violent and dark and gritty are in this film. Those niche fanboys in the corners of the internet are fulfilled. Some of these fans feel like it makes themselves feel more validated and grown up, some don't of course, but I think if Batman outright murdered, oh, excuse me, committed man slaughter more, it still would be justified. Just like if Snyder made Superman let a little girl die or killed one that would be justified too. It never ends. That's the thing: There is no line drawn which is the problem. I just never thought Snyder would make Batman a murderer. There are no rules for Snyder's heroes, hence people not making distinctions for these characters values, so it leaves them free to give their own dark justifications.

This interpretation is on the opposite end of spectrum for Schumacher's Batman. His was too stupid, this is too dark and cartoonishly so, but this is worse because you can't even laugh at this.

 

[antoineflemming]

A medic performing CPR is cinematic shorthand for that guy not dying. If they wanted to show Batman's actions as truly lethal, you'd see covered bodies being wheeled out.

Granted, for all we know, that security guard is having CPR performed because one of his fellow guards accidentally shot him or something during the fracas...

In the scene where Batman has dropped all the security guards...the immoral brutality of it is kind of the point. That's he's gone way, way too far. That his obsessions have led to this kind of desperate violence. That's the whole point of his character arc in this film. This "descent into madness".

And that's just too much for a lot of people with regard to this character. You're not supposed to like it, but I think filmmakers thought people would look at it as an exploration of the concept of Batman, not just a bastardization of it.

And furthermore, Affleck, Snyder, and even Cavill I think have all said repeatedly that this Batman is broken and bitter. He's broken. They already told you well before this movie came out that this is a Batman who is broken. If he's still following his no-killing rule, then how can you even say he's broken?

I understand that people aren't happy with some of the execution of the film. I'm not either. But I at least understood why they were doing some of what they did. The problem is that Snyder did not execute this well at all. I have no problem with him killing and even just fighting needlessly against anyone who stands in his way, but that should have been a result of his brokenness and bitterness. It shouldn't have just been his branding and his mission to stop Superman.

 

[Shikamaru]

You can't really say this Batman's broken when it's pretty clear him killing was always the status quo. The Robin spear leaks prove so, plus the fact he doesn't stop killing after he becomes buddies with Superman. Not to mention this Superman expresses clearly he has no problem with killing (and has killed before), so how radically could he change Bruce?

"Oh, but he stopped branding people." Sure, but there's no evidence to suggest he stopped killing or that he was never a killer. There's evidence to the contrary though, which I just brought up. Doesn't make much sense for him to stop branding but not murdering, but that's Snyder for ya. It's not supposed to make sense.

For the record, I don't expect future (non-JL) versions of this Batman to kill, but not because of some supoosed character arc he had in this film. Instead it will probably be the result of new writers coming on board and treating it like the "Selina was never a prostitute" of the DCEU. Won't be surprised if that's David Ayer's approach to it.