The Winter Soldier Captain America 2: News and Speculation - - - - - - Part 19

[Suzanne78]

Okay... I haven't read through this whole thread, but has it been speculated that, in Captain America 3, something might happen to cause Steve to lose his powers? Like, not necessarily during the movie but something during the final act. I speculate about that's because that's been another big storyline for Steve Rogers throughout his comics run.

Then by Avengers 3, during the big battle with, possibly, Thanos, Steve reverts back to his skinny self, but somehow he manages to lead the team on one last stand. Possibly sacrificing himself (thus leaving room for a future Steve Rogers recast or for Bucky to take over as Cap). Also could you guys imagine a visual of skinny Steve Rogers picking up Mjolnir and using it to lead the rest of the team against Thanos?

That visual, as well as the fact that it's not Steve's super strength and powers that makes him worthy, but it's the strength of his character, might be pretty amazing, both from a storytelling standpoint and from a character perspective.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

I hate the idea of Steve reverting to his previous self a la Banner. I would have a problem with anything that even suggests that the SS process was reversible or temporary. At least in caps case. Even the suggestion gives me hives. No offense suze.

 

[marcvader]

Anything that prevents me from seeing a possible Cap 4 with the real Rogers I'm against.

 

[Suzanne78]

It was more or less a spec if Chris didn't want to reup with Marvel after A3. Either it would give Marvel time to get a recast for Steve Rogers lined up or let Bucky take over as Cap for future franchises.

I personally would love it if Chris' time as Steve was bookended as Skinny Steve. I see it more true to Steve's character for him to take out the big bad as the person he really is on the inside. Plus, that story is canonical in some character arcs.

Please, don't anyone take this as me trying to get rid of Evans. I. Love. Him. LOVE. HIM. I'm just brainwaving some possible end of Captain Rogers arcs if Evans decides not to return after Avengers 3. That's all. I don't really want to get rid of him, but thinking about the most emotionally impactful way to end Steve's story here.

 

[Suzanne78]

I hate the idea of Steve reverting to his previous self a la Banner. I would have a problem with anything that even suggests that the SS process was reversible or temporary. At least in caps case. Even the suggestion gives me hives. No offense suze.

No offense taken, but it does happen a couple of times in Gruenwald and Waid's run… Brubaker did it in a mini too. Which is why I suggested it.

 

[spideymouse]

Well, I wouldn't go so far as to have him die, even if Evans doesn't reup...

Let me play along. What if the reversal is magic-based or caused by an Infinity gem? That way it wouldn't have to be permanent or suggestive that the SS process was temporary. Say whatever skinny Steve does to sacrifice himself results in saving the universe as well as restoring his super soldier state, even though he didn't know it would in the first place. That way the bravery to make the sacrifice is still there, but you don't have to kill him off. Predictable and cliched? Maybe. Still would make for an awesome scene.

 

[Silvermoon]

Please, don't anyone take this as me trying to get rid of Evans. I. Love. Him. LOVE. HIM. I'm just brainwaving some possible end of Captain Rogers arcs if Evans decides not to return after Avengers 3. That's all. I don't really want to get rid of him, but thinking about the most emotionally impactful way to end Steve's story here.

Yeah... sure... like I believe that

Spoiler

j/k

 

[TalismanRing]

It also happens in the (severely mourned) EHM cartoon - I think in an episode with Spiderman in a sewer - and Steve is still awesome and kicking ass.

Looking at his medical history from the TFA (Asthma, anemia, diabetic, color-blindness, heart murmur, scoliosis, and family history of TB) I'm surprised Skinny Steve looks as healthy as he does.

And agreed, no need for Cap to die as seemingly concretely as he does in the Civil War arc (which needed some sizable contortions to undo). That wasn't even the first time he "died". Heck, this is a character who was transported to Dimension Z for 12 years.

 

[Suzanne78]

Yeah, I probably should've put have Chris' Cap/Steve "die" -- in quotes -- so it didn't really seem like I was killing him off LOL! But I think it would be a good way to prep for a recast...

LOL Silvermoon! I don't think I've made it a secret how much I love Chris, but also really, really want to see BuckyCap down the road in the future.

By the way, half way through AoS from last night and ZOMG SO GOOD!!

 

[Endeavor]

By the way, half way through AoS from last night and ZOMG SO GOOD!!

Hurry up, you have a lot of speculation to catch up on in the AoS threads

 

[TalismanRing]

I think the entire idea of BuckyCap is ridiculous so much so that the way it ended was the only thing that rang remotely true. Brainwashed or not no one in their right mind would give him that title or office without thinking it would all blow up in their face. It also makes Captain America like all the other "tortured" superheroes - he's no longer unique.

Anyway, Captain America is Steve like Iron Man is Tony Stak and Batman is Bruce Wayne - others may claim the costume and the name but it feels like a poor counterfeit knockoff.

 

[hafizbat]

I hate the idea of Steve reverting to his previous self a la Banner. I would have a problem with anything that even suggests that the SS process was reversible or temporary. At least in caps case. Even the suggestion gives me hives. No offense suze.

I agree. It makes the SSS seem rather cheap and gimmicky...I would hate it too. Rogers is supposed to have the perfect formula, the one time it worked that no one else can replicate no matter how they try. Taking that away kind of diminishes it.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

The comics get a pass because after 50 years they are in constant desperation mode for stories. There are plenty of stories left to tell in the MCU before they have to resort to the de-powered steve gimmick. Plus its already been done in Spidey 2 (the worst aspect of a very good movie) and Thor 1.

I do agree that if they are going to use the gimmick, it should be magic-induced and relatively brief. But again not necessary. Especially in an avengers movie where cap is already low on the totem pole power-wise. Give that heroic moment to Banner.

 

[onyxrose81]

I agree. It makes the SSS seem rather cheap and gimmicky...I would hate it too. Rogers is supposed to have the perfect formula, the one time it worked that no one else can replicate no matter how they try. Taking that away kind of diminishes it.

I agree with this. I would absolutely hate it for his powers to go away. If Steve can't be CA, have it be about something other than this.

 

[Joeyjojo72]

Lol the shocking truth is I'd prefer a dead Steve to a skinny Steve. I'm... not a good person.

Seriously though, I suppose if anyone can make me okay with the idea of a depowered cap its Whedon. But I really hope they don't go there.

 

[Suzanne78]

I think Whedon could wring every last bit of emotion out of depowered Cap.

Skinny Steve is, like, my favorite MCU character. I just adore him and could watch a whole movie of Chris Evans playing him LOL! #iamweird…

 

[Nilso]

I think Whedon could wring every last bit of emotion out of depowered Cap.

Skinny Steve is, like, my favorite MCU character. I just adore him and could watch a whole movie of Chris Evans playing him LOL! #iamweird…

As much as one loves Skinny Steve. Having Cap revert to Skinny Steve is unnecessary. I think you might be better off just having a call back, like a quote used from CA:TFA when he fights with Thanos in A3.

For example: (Nerd goggles on)

Spoiler

While all the Avengers/GOTG and whomever else are indisposed. Have Cap step up to Thanos (yes, just like in the comics)

Cap: As long as one man stands against you, Thanos, you'll never be able to claim victory.

Thanos: Noble sentiments from one who is about to die.

Cap: I've lived my life by those sentiments.

Thanos throws a punch, Cap dodges it.

Cap: They're well worth dying for.

Thanos: Then you shall die.

Thanos hits Caps shield shattering it like glass.

Cap avoids the hit and punches Thanos in the face.

Thanos: Mortal, you only delay the inevitable.

Thanos throws another punch, Cap dodges and rolls under his legs. He swiftly puts a timed explosive on the back of Thanos' leg.

The explosive goes off, Thanos laughs unaffected.

Thanos: You're weapons and spirit will only last you so long.

Thanos connects with a kick, sending Cap back 100 feet.

Cap slowly rises, a bloody mess.

Thanos: Surrender and your suffering ends now.

Cap stands and walks toward Thanos.

Cap: It's not in my nature.

Thanos jumps and kicks Cap down again. Toying with him.

Cap lay in a bloody heap. Thanos turns and smiles at the defeat of his enemy.

Thanos: The fool can not fathom the power I ho-

Thanos comments are interrupted by the beeping of several timed explosives that were placed on him by Cap.

They explode sending Thanos to one knee, he slowly rises and sees Cap walking directly up to him.

Thanos: Seems the spirit is stronger than the body, give up NOW Earthling and I shall grant you mercy.

Cap: I can do this all day.

To be continued... (Nerd goggles off)

 

[DN91]

Anyone have a "transcript" of sorts for Cap's speech to SHIELD when he reveals everything?

 

[Silvermoon]

Anyone have a "transcript" of sorts for Cap's speech to SHIELD when he reveals everything?

*cough* don't ask where I got this from (cause I won't tell you) and please ignore any grammatical errors and/or any typos:

Spoiler

"Attention all SHIELD agents, this is Steve Rogers. You've heard a lot about me in the last few days, some of you were even ordered to hunt me down. I think it's time you know the truth. SHIELD is not what we thought it was, it's been taken over by HYDRA. Alexander Pierce is their leader. STRIKE and Insight crews are HYDRA as well. We don't know how many more, but I know they're in the building, they could be standing right next to you. They almost have what they want: absolute control. They shot Nick Fury, and it won't end there. If you launch those helicarriers today HYDRA will be able to kill anyone that stands in their way, unless we stop them. I know I'm asking a lot. The price of freedom is high, always has been, and it's a price I'm willing to pay. And if I'm the only one, then so be it. But I'm willing to bet I'm not."

 

[DN91]

^ Fantastic. Thanks very much. I loved that speech so much.

 

[The Caped Knight]

*cough* don't ask where I got this from (cause I won't tell you) and please ignore any grammatical errors and/or any typos:

Spoiler

"Attention all SHIELD agents, this is Steve Rogers. You've heard a lot about me in the last few days, some of you were even ordered to hunt me down. I think it's time you know the truth. SHIELD is not what we thought it was, it's been taken over by HYDRA. Alexander Pierce is their leader. STRIKE and Insight crews are HYDRA as well. We don't know how many more, but I know they're in the building, they could be standing right next to you. They almost have what they want: absolute control. They shot Nick Fury, and it won't end there. If you launch those helicarriers today HYDRA will be able to kill anyone that stands in their way, unless we stop them. I know I'm asking a lot. The price of freedom is high, always has been, and it's a price I'm willing to pay. And if I'm the only one, then so be it. But I'm willing to bet I'm not."

 

[Silvermoon]

I have another question for those that were paying attention and know.

Spoiler

On the bridge, after WS has been tasked to take out Widow and Cap and Widow has evaded the exploding car by using one of her grapple hooks to repel down below, WS says something in another language that, according to subtitles, was along the lines of "I'll get her. You find him."

my question is, does anyone know what language he was speaking? (I want to say something like Russian but fully admit I don't really have an ear for languages)

 

[Ms. Marvel]

I think the entire idea of BuckyCap is ridiculous so much so that the way it ended was the only thing that rang remotely true. Brainwashed or not no one in their right mind would give him that title or office without thinking it would all blow up in their face. It also makes Captain America like all the other "tortured" superheroes - he's no longer unique.

Anyway, Captain America is Steve like Iron Man is Tony Stak and Batman is Bruce Wayne - others may claim the costume and the name but it feels like a poor counterfeit knockoff.

*Mandarin voice* Like fortune cookies.

 

[hafizbat]

I think the entire idea of BuckyCap is ridiculous so much so that the way it ended was the only thing that rang remotely true. Brainwashed or not no one in their right mind would give him that title or office without thinking it would all blow up in their face. It also makes Captain America like all the other "tortured" superheroes - he's no longer unique.

Anyway, Captain America is Steve like Iron Man is Tony Stak and Batman is Bruce Wayne - others may claim the costume and the name but it feels like a poor counterfeit knockoff.

I absolutely agree.

 

[PunyGod]

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