The Dark Knight Rises Characterization of the Knight - Nolan and Bale's Bruce Wayne/Batman - Part 2

[RustyCage]

That's hilarious that they just made that his official name.

 

[BatLobster]

Little known fact: Food Guy is a distant cousin of Falafel Guy.

 

[RustyCage]

Little known fact: Food Guy is a distant cousin of Falafel Guy.

LOL

So now we know why he decided to resort to helping Bane:

Fits in with that argument we were having about how decadent Gotham was in TDKR, right?

 

[JackWhite]

Let's get this thread back on track: What's everyone's top 5 favorite Batman/Bruce Wayne Scenes or moments from TDK Trilogy?

Off of the top of my head and in no specific order they go as follows:

Batman:

1) TDKR - "You're in for a show tonight, son" Batman's return scene.
2) TDK - "Beautiful, isn't it?" - Sonar scene with Fox.
3) BB - "Where are you?" - The docks scene.
4) TDK - "I need five minutes alone" Batman vs the Joker's thugs/SWAT Team.
5) BB - "Swear to me!" - Interrogation of Flass.

Bruce Wayne:

1) TDKR - "Why do we Fall?" - Bruce makes the climb.
2) BB - Bruce confronts his fears in the cave.
3) BB - "The will to act" - Bruce vs Ra's on the ice.
4) BB - "A symbol..." - Plane ride back to Gotham with Alfred.
5) TDK - "Hands up pretty boy" - Bruce swiftly takes out one of the Joker's men.

 

[the last son]

Batman
1. Swear to me scene
2. End of Batman begins
3. I'm Batman scene
4. Batman calling for back-up in begins
5. Batman carrying out the bomb

Bruce Wayne
1. The Climb all of those scenes, because I really love the why build yourself as well.
2. Have to go with the bats surrounding him in begins
3. Bruce confronting Falcone
4. Bruce confronting Gordon in the police station
5. Bruce big spending in begins and tdk. Buying hotels and owning them.

 

[JackWhite]

I just realized another parallel between BB and TDKR. After Bruce falls through the ice and he and Ra's are by the campfire, Ra's tells Bruce "Your anger gives you great power, but if you let it; it will destroy you". Bruce's hatred and rage nearly costs him his life against Bane in there first encounter. Very cool indeed.

 

[RustyCage]

Bruce Wayne:

1 - TDKR - The exchange with Selina at the masquerade. He's masquerading as Bruce Wayne, and they have a beautiful back and forth with a lot of underlying depth and finesse. Best scene of TDKR, to me. Probably the best acting of the whole trilogy.

2 - TDKR - Going over his extensive, impressive research into Selina Kyle and explaining that he even considered checking for lifted prints on the safe, as well as how she did it.

3 - TDK - His depression after losing Rachel echoing his agony as a boy when he lost his parents. The scenes were a deliberate mirror.

4 - BB - Training with the League of Shadows. Specifically the test where he inhales the blue flower's smoke and starts to hallucinate, outwits Ra's with a very clever plan, and confronts his fear.

5 - BB - Interactions with Lucius, from Applied Sciences to buying up Wayne Enterprises shares to put Lucius in charge. 'Didn't you get the memo?' Their relationship is incredibly charming.


Batman:

1 - BB - His first appearance to Rachel. I call it the 'Rattle the cages' scene. Literally the perfect embodiment of the character. Dark, ominous, intelligent, noirish, intensely staring, and cloaked perfectly in his cape, which is flowing gently. I felt like that iconic moment of portrayal was never succeeded or recaptured in the rest of the trilogy. It was the most effective 'he appears out of nowhere' moment of the trilogy too.

THE BEST version of Batman's voice of any interpretation is this scene, in my opinion. Shame it didn't stay this good for the next two films.

2 - BB - The docks scene, Batman grabbing thugs up into the shadows. Surgically whittling their numbers down from hiding places while scaring them into a panic. The most believable time he ever took on a group of armed opponents in the whole trilogy.

Also adore the way they used the camerawork to make Batman seem like an intense, flickering shadow. Just out of sight. You catch glimpses of him and it feels like you're watching bat wings flap in the dark. The sound effects suit this beautifully. Some call it the 'perspective of the thugs', which fits, but more importantly, it captures a sophisticated Batman operating both realistically and powerfully.

3 - TDK - The 'I need 5 minutes alone' scene, from him epically gliding in with the wicked bat silhouette tucking in to give him more speed as he tackles the first guy, to the way he works out what the trap is and then goes about rescuing the hostage-clowns, neutralizing the entire SWAT team, planting bombs, tying up dudes to be yanked and dangled over the edge of the building. Multi-tasking like a BOSS. Sonar vision for the win too.

4 - TDKR - Batman's return to Gotham, especially the very first time he appears. Not just the reference to the awesome line from the cops in TDK Returns, but the genius use of EMP pulse to blacken the lights, both creating a slick, mobile cover of darkness, but also making him appear like something almost supernatural. A blazing shadow that brings pitch blackness with him in his wake. Too. Cool.

5 - TDK - Catching Harvey's coin mid-flip and giving him a verbal schooling. It was one of the few moments that the voice was sufficiently smooth in the film, but it also expressed Batman's level of intelligence, investigation, and integrity. And of course it was the second best 'Batman appears out of nowhere' moment, adding to that sense of mystery to him that stuns people and makes them wonder if he's more than human.

You can see it on Harvey's face.

 

[kvz5]

http://readerknowsallplots.tumblr.com/post/62260775986/thanks-again-and-again-to-missrambler

Audition:

 

[BatmanBeyond]

Let's get this thread back on track: What's everyone's top 5 favorite Batman/Bruce Wayne Scenes or moments from TDK Trilogy?

Off of the top of my head and in no specific order they go as follows:

Batman:

1) TDKR - "You're in for a show tonight, son" Batman's return scene.
2) TDK - "Beautiful, isn't it?" - Sonar scene with Fox.
3) BB - "Where are you?" - The docks scene.
4) TDK - "I need five minutes alone" Batman vs the Joker's thugs/SWAT Team.
5) BB - "Swear to me!" - Interrogation of Flass.

Bruce Wayne:

1) TDKR - "Why do we Fall?" - Bruce makes the climb.
2) BB - Bruce confronts his fears in the cave.
3) BB - "The will to act" - Bruce vs Ra's on the ice.
4) BB - "A symbol..." - Plane ride back to Gotham with Alfred.
5) TDK - "Hands up pretty boy" - Bruce swiftly takes out one of the Joker's men.

I'll come back with a list of my own later on, but for me, the cave scene in BB, where Bruce conquers his fears, is one of the best scenes in the trilogy. It's also both a Batman and Bruce Wayne scene, which is why I love it even more.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6qwcjxDosc

I've probably referred to it in these terms before, but it really is poetry in motion.

 

[The Batman]

Top 5 Batman Scenes

1.Batman Rescues Rachel from Scarecrow (BB):One of the sequences that show off Batman’s pure badassery, from Scarecrow’s thugs wondering if he can fly before he picks them off one by one, to Bruce owning Scarecrow, escaping the asylum with Bats, and escaping the police.

2. Batman vs the SWAT team (TDK): To be honest, this was the Batman I wanted to see all throughout TDK: instead of being the guy Joker was running rings around, Batman comes in being the only one in the room who realizes that something’s wrong with the Prewitt building scenario. Then like a boss he swoops in while Gordon tells him not too, figures out the hostage situation, and continues to protect the hostages while taking out both Joker’s thugs and the SWAT team.

3. Batman saves James Jr and takes the fall for Harvey (TDK): I think the final meeting of the Wayne/Gordon/Dent triumvirate is one of, if not the best scene in the movie. The music and acting just build the tension as Dent shoots Batman and slowly works his way to James jr. It’s a “Hell yeah” moment when Batman’s theme plays and Batman tackles Harvey. And Bruce taking the fall for Harvey sums up why Batman is such a great character. At this point, Gordon’s end speech speaks for itself.

4. Batman’s Return (TDKR): TDKR is the least good movie of the trilogy…but there are still some great Batman moments in the film, this being one of them. After waiting nearly 50 minutes, we finally get to see Batman in action, briefly using a badass EMP device an subsequently being chased by the cops. The reactions to Batman’s return were well done, as was Batman’s escape by using the Bat.

5.Batman Saves Robin (TDKR): This scene felt like something out of a comic book. And watching Batman through the eyes of his “protégé” created a moment where Batman seemed larger than life as he dismantles the mercenaries.


Top 5 Bruce Wayne Scenes

1. Bruce the Prisoner (BB): In hindsight, its easy to take for granted how atypical BB’s first scene is. Watching Bruce Wayne, bearded and imprisoned is a cool way to start off a Batfilm. I like the dry sense of humor Bruce has (“Can’t they kill me before breakfast?”) and his badass response to the “Devil”. The scene was good at showing that even while unrefined, Bruce was not someone you wanted to mess with in a fight.


2. Bruce the Phony Drunk (BB): Bale once mentioned that Bruce sacrifices a great deal to be Batman, and this scene is a prime example. Bruce ruining the family name to save lives is an effect way to show the stranglehold Batman has on Bruce’s life. Bale effectively shows how stung Bruce is when Fredericks says “The apple has fallen very far from the tree”.

3. Bruce Wayne during the Penthouse raid (TDK): Choking out Harvey Dent, hilariously ignoring the rich couple as he goes into his “panic room”, and knocking out one of Joker’s goons made for one of the many badass Bruce Wayne scenes in TDK.

4. Post Rachel’s Death Scene (TDK): This scene is proof that Christian Bale’s performance in TDK is underrated. He effectively holds back from sobbing uncontrollably while also reverting back to an 8 year old boy. You can’t help but feel bad when he says “She was gonna wait for me, Alfred.”

5. Bruce Makes the Climb (TDKR): One of the most emotional moments in the entire trilogy. The word “epic” is overused, but here it is entirely fitting. After watching Bruce wallow in prison for the entire second act, he triumphantly climbs to freedom.

 

[The Joker]

Batsy, your choices are excellent, but I'm crushed you didn't choose one between you and I. I thought we completed each other!

 

[The Batman]

Oh, Joker, we do complete each other.

The thing is....for example, there's no doubt that the interrogation scene is one of the best scenes not only in the trilogy, not only in CBM's, but in films period. And Batman/Joker interaction is awesome in general.

But....while Bats/Mr. J scenes are excellent, I think great Batman scenes should be scenes that present Bats at his best. The interrogation scene, for example, has Batman at his most helpless, lol. It's no secret that TDK has Joker running rings around Bruce for most of the film.

BTW, Mr. J, what are your top Bruce/Batman scenes?

 

[shauner111]

My favorite Bruce scene in the entire trilogy is when Bruce faces his fears in the cave, in Begins. It will always give me goosebumps.

The prison escape from Rises is another fantastic Bruce moment. Probably my runner-up.

Ill just do a favorite moment from each with one runner-up instead...

So for Batman? Ill go with a moment that I feel has been mocked (because of the voice) but also admired greatly...especially in my first viewing. I couldn't believe how Batman was finally done in such a way. Asking Maroni where the Joker is, Maroni thinks he's smart....then guess what......Bats drops that mother-f'er on his ankles with NO mercy! "WHERE IS HE!??????" ahhhh I love it! When I first saw that I was like OMG!! THAAAAT is the goddamn batman. He will practically paralyze a person or risk doing so if it means getting answers. Hey it's not killing! But god damnit is it cold. I still remember the gasps in the theater.

My runner-up is a simple moment from Begins. It's when he swoops down in front of Ras, right before he says to Bats "well, I see you've taken my advice about theatricality a bit literally". It's that shot of him flying towards the league of shadows in the fog. It's just iconic to me.

Im sure I could think of better ones, but that's just off the top of my head.

 

[JackWhite]

I've always preferred "Where is he?!" to "Swear to me!" actually, lol. Not that I think one is superior over the other, but I love how cold and ruthless Batman is while trying to obtain information from Maroni. And the fact that these kinds of methods don't quite work as it use to gives Bruce growth as a character, because he starts realize that he will have to go further with blurring the lines when it comes to fighting these "freak" criminals.

But yeah, I just love Bale in that scene. Especially as Batman floats down to Maroni and you can hear the cape billow in the wind behind him. Just awesome.

 

[BatLobster]

I love that scene too. Kevin Smith has made fun of it, pointing out that the line "He must have friends!" sounds ridiculous with that voice, but I think it's all perfect. The whole scene is just consummate Batmanery (especially the nightclub beatdown leading up to it), though it highlights a great point...eventually criminals would get wise to his act.

 

[JackWhite]

I love that scene too. Kevin Smith has made fun of it, pointing out that the line "He must have friends!" sounds ridiculous with that voice, but I think it's all perfect. The whole scene is just consummate Batmanery (especially the nightclub beatdown leading up to it), though it highlights a great point...eventually criminals would get wise to his act.

Exactly. It was the natural progression of the theme escalation, especially with the Joker showing up and eventually creating Two-Face.

Thinking about this makes me wonder how Nolan would have approached a Gotham run by a majority of freak criminals. I feel Nolan would have never done a film like this, probably feeling it would be too episodic, but had Heath lived and Nolan kept Two-Face alive; the idea certainly would have crossed his mind.

 

[shauner111]

Exactly. It was the natural progression of the theme escalation, especially with the Joker showing up and eventually creating Two-Face.

Thinking about this makes me wonder how Nolan would have approached a Gotham run by a majority of freak criminals. I feel Nolan would have never done a film like this, probably feeling it would be too episodic, but had Heath lived and Nolan kept Two-Face alive; the idea certainly would have crossed his mind.

I might get a lot of crap for this from the haters, but I just came back from Don Jon...

Seeing how good JGL keeps getting as an actor and how jacked he was in this movie, it just made my friend and I start talking about how it's too bad WB didn't hold off on the Batman vs Superman reboot business (which is all about having a shared universe to go head to head with Avengers) and just continue for a film or two with JGL. Ill try to be quick with this so i don't derail the thread, but this relates to what you're saying about Nolan never doing a movie where the freaks run the show...

Yeah..im a fan of the Blake character and I think Affleck will be solid but JGL is a better actor with tons of mainstream appeal.

The way Bruce was characterized and how Robin was too...it was great. This universe was never meant to include fantastical characters like Freeze, Ivy, Clayface, Man-Bat, Grundy, Croc or Firefly. Hey maybe 3 or 4 of those names could have been altered for a more grounded take. No problem, there's many other rogues to choose from. But I would have liked to have seen Nolan produce a Bat film starring JGL where the freaks are running the show. Have it set years later when Blake is knee deep in the role. Directed by Rian Johnson.

 

[DACrowe]

Batman:

-"Do I look like a cop?"
-Batman landing in front of Ra's Al Ghul at the train all the way to swinging back in (two awesome interests and pure animal energy on Bale's face in one sequence!)
-"I'm counting on it."
-The last 20 minutes of TDK.
-Batman evading the cops in TDKR.

Great scenes all.

 

[craigdbfan]

These are two of my all time favorite scenes and encapsulates the precision, dedication and ruthlessness that is Batman on the prowl.

The iconography in both these scenes (Batman landing on the van with his cape billowing dramatically over it and Batman gliding in the blue night of Hong Kong to burst into the building immediately taking names) is unmatched in my view.

The deadpan glare Batman gives scarecrow after catching him is beautifully accurate to the character and the nonchalant knockout of the Chinese thug in the Hong Kong scene is priceless.

TDK Garage Drug Bust -



TDK Hong Kong Fulton Evac System -

 

[Anita18]

I might get a lot of crap for this from the haters, but I just came back from Don Jon...

Seeing how good JGL keeps getting as an actor and how jacked he was in this movie, it just made my friend and I start talking about how it's too bad WB didn't hold off on the Batman vs Superman reboot business (which is all about having a shared universe to go head to head with Avengers) and just continue for a film or two with JGL. Ill try to be quick with this so i don't derail the thread, but this relates to what you're saying about Nolan never doing a movie where the freaks run the show...

Yeah..im a fan of the Blake character and I think Affleck will be solid but JGL is a better actor with tons of mainstream appeal.

The way Bruce was characterized and how Robin was too...it was great. This universe was never meant to include fantastical characters like Freeze, Ivy, Clayface, Man-Bat, Grundy, Croc or Firefly. Hey maybe 3 or 4 of those names could have been altered for a more grounded take. No problem, there's many other rogues to choose from. But I would have liked to have seen Nolan produce a Bat film starring JGL where the freaks are running the show. Have it set years later when Blake is knee deep in the role. Directed by Rian Johnson.

I think it's been mentioned before, but a huge part of Batman's appeal is that it's an immensely damaged Bruce Wayne under the mask. The rich playboy who could have anything he wanted, do anything he wanted, but chose to be Batman because he's so messed up. Blake mentioned being "angry" in TDKR, but there's no indication that he enjoys the thrill of gadgetry or beating up criminals like Bruce did. If we followed him into vigilantism after TDKR, I suspect Blake would be much more of a detective than Bruce was, handling things from the inside more than beating it out of people. Bruce was a daredevil and had a death wish, particularly in TDKR, but Blake does not. Blake really does want to help more than the law let him as a cop.

Blake, if anything, would probably be a very boring version of Batman.

 

[Anita18]

These are two of my all time favorite scenes and encapsulates the precision, dedication and ruthlessness that is Batman on the prowl.

The iconography in both these scenes (Batman landing on the van with his cape billowing dramatically over it and Batman gliding in the blue night of Hong Kong to burst into the building immediately taking names) is unmatched in my view.

The deadpan glare Batman gives scarecrow after catching him is beautifully accurate to the character and the nonchalant knockout of the Chinese thug in the Hong Kong scene is priceless.


TDK Hong Kong Fulton Evac System -

Batman punching the random thug as he drags Lau by the foot always made me As is his complete disinterest as Lau screams that he'll give him anything. Can't negotiate with the Batman, MFer! (Unless you're Joker, but that's neither here nor there... )

I know some script purists think the HK scene was superfluous, but yeah dude, Bats crashing into the building and immediately getting in on the action just made me happyyyyyyy.

As was the nightclub fight scene. When I saw TDK for the first time, I thought I had died and gone to heaven. Who knew Batman bashing skulls in a nightclub could be SO COOL??

 

[shauner111]

I think it's been mentioned before, but a huge part of Batman's appeal is that it's an immensely damaged Bruce Wayne under the mask. The rich playboy who could have anything he wanted, do anything he wanted, but chose to be Batman because he's so messed up. Blake mentioned being "angry" in TDKR, but there's no indication that he enjoys the thrill of gadgetry or beating up criminals like Bruce did. If we followed him into vigilantism after TDKR, I suspect Blake would be much more of a detective than Bruce was, handling things from the inside more than beating it out of people. Bruce was a daredevil and had a death wish, particularly in TDKR, but Blake does not. Blake really does want to help more than the law let him as a cop.

Blake, if anything, would probably be a very boring version of Batman.

Yeah but Bruce is Bruce and this would be a different character with some parallels. It's simple for me, Im just interested in seeing more of the character JGL plays. Especially as the actor gets older. I would find it appealing to see WB take a risk with a batman movie without Bruce Wayne as well as a calmer detective-Bats with Levitt under the cowl.

The guy is 32 but looks like he's in his late 20s. As was the case in TDKR where it seemed like he was playing a character in his mid 20s. I still think a movie can happen with him in say 10 years as that's when I see the new universe winding down. He'll be the age Affleck will be when filming Batman vs Superman, but looking younger..putting the character in his 30s.

 

[batfreakforever]

I enjoy some on the comments on these forums/internet but are really happy that none of these/the fans are involved in the making of these films because most if not all of these idea's for follow up's to these films are really bad. I'm glad we had Nolan and Goyer on the Dark Knight trilogy and are happy that we have Snyder and Goyer for further films. Man of Steel was great and the follow up with Batman involved has me really excited for that film. Talks from fans saying that Batman is just shoehorned in is bull. The fans don't know anything when it comes to behind the scenes, it's all just made up info from them. I get my info from official behind the scenes books/interviews for when a movie comes out not from fans. Even when official word comes out, fans try to twist it to fit their view, which could'nt be further from the truth most of the time.

 

[Anita18]

Yeah but Bruce is Bruce and this would be a different character with some parallels. It's simple for me, Im just interested in seeing more of the character JGL plays. Especially as the actor gets older. I would find it appealing to see WB take a risk with a batman movie without Bruce Wayne as well as a calmer detective-Bats with Levitt under the cowl.

The guy is 32 but looks like he's in his late 20s. As was the case in TDKR where it seemed like he was playing a character in his mid 20s. I still think a movie can happen with him in say 10 years as that's when I see the new universe winding down. He'll be the age Affleck will be when filming Batman vs Superman, but looking younger..putting the character in his 30s.

And that would be confusing as hell for the GA.

Maybe someone could do an Elseworlds comic about that (I don't think DC would bite either), but the TDK trilogy was Bruce's Batman story, and I'm glad it began and ended with him. It's kind of like (Breaking Bad spoilers follow....)

Spoiler

...having a spinoff to show just exactly what happens to Jesse after the finale. But it's not the job of the show to do that - Breaking Bad was Walt's story, and it began and ended with him, literally. Seeing Jesse finally FREE, physically and emotionally, is the end of his character arc in the Breaking Bad world. Just as Bruce's story didn't end with him dying, but being free of Batman and playboy Bruce.

The Better Call Saul spinoff is even a prequel, so it isn't like they're going to show an extension of the Breaking Bad story there either. In that vein, TDKR could be shown as a "prequel" to the Blake Batman story....whatever that's going to be. And something tells me that might be the most exciting part of his story, and that's probably a good thing, considering what Wayne's Batman put Gotham through.

If you're that interested in seeing what happens to Blake after TDKR, why not write your own story? You know what you want to see in it, you're invested in the character already. (Probably more than 80% of the folks who did see TDKR. ) You don't even have to show it to us, LOL. But it's all fiction and who's to say your version if wrong if the creators aren't even going to write one themselves?

 

[shauner111]

And that would be confusing as hell for the GA.

Maybe someone could do an Elseworlds comic about that (I don't think DC would bite either), but the TDK trilogy was Bruce's Batman story, and I'm glad it began and ended with him. It's kind of like (Breaking Bad spoilers follow....)

Spoiler

...having a spinoff to show just exactly what happens to Jesse after the finale. But it's not the job of the show to do that - Breaking Bad was Walt's story, and it began and ended with him, literally. Seeing Jesse finally FREE, physically and emotionally, is the end of his character arc in the Breaking Bad world. Just as Bruce's story didn't end with him dying, but being free of Batman and playboy Bruce.

The Better Call Saul spinoff is even a prequel, so it isn't like they're going to show an extension of the Breaking Bad story there either. In that vein, TDKR could be shown as a "prequel" to the Blake Batman story....whatever that's going to be. And something tells me that might be the most exciting part of his story, and that's probably a good thing, considering what Wayne's Batman put Gotham through.

If you're that interested in seeing what happens to Blake after TDKR, why not write your own story? You know what you want to see in it, you're invested in the character already. (Probably more than 80% of the folks who did see TDKR. ) You don't even have to show it to us, LOL. But it's all fiction and who's to say your version if wrong if the creators aren't even going to write one themselves?

You're absolutely right! Good post. Good comparison with Breaking Bad. I think it's possible for a return to the Nolan-verse, but only if this Affleck stuff bombs before it truly takes off. But I don't see that happening. A comic would be more ideal to continue the story, didn't DC say they were planning on that??

I was going to, earlier this year actually but was waiting to see what was going down with this MOS universe. Which batman would be used. Then I forgot about it but now you've reminded me lol. Screw it, maybe ill just write my own story and get one of the many talented artists on the hype to take it to the next level. Yeaaaahh...the majority of the internet seem to hate the Blake character but in the flesh all I ever hear is great things about Blake and how people wanted to see more of him. Im in the minority on this board!