The Dark Knight Rises Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

[Chrisbarnes182]

Maybe Alfred was dreaming Batman from the beginning. Batman didn't exist and neither was the Wayne family. Alfred is locked up in Asylum dreaming this up.

Im gonna go with this t: Alfred is just a mental old man the dreamed the whole thing up while locked away in Arkham with Joel Schumacher, George Clooney and Chris O'Donnell.

 

[Mob1423]

This is a great video explaining the Robin John Blake part of the ending. Might answer a few questions some may have.

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmHJvPAQoAU[/YT]

 

[Golgo-13]

I love this movie. I loved the ending, this is just nit picking for the fun of it:

In Batman Begins, Ducard/Ra's says the world is too small for Bruce Wayne to hide in.

In The Dark Knight - Lucius tells Reese Bruce Wayne is one of the richest, most powerful men in the world, when Reese is trying to blackmail him.

That being said, wouldn't it be a little more realistic if Bruce didn't really look like Bruce in the cafe scene? I mean, he should have dyed his hair blonde, and/or had on glasses, or shaved his hair down really low military style to not look like Bruce Wayne. He's probably been on magazine covers worldwide, etc. It's like Bill Gates of Microsoft trying to disappear. Someone going to eventually recognize him.

 

[wootbaby]

Personally, I always thought Bruce had the signal fixed as his way to show Gordon he's alive, not necessarily to use. Because I don't think Blake would become "Batman" but something similar, be it Nightwing or whatever. I never interpreted Bruce giving him the cave as anything more than a call to action. For Blake to understand that he needs to step up now and fulfill the role of protector. That protector can come in any shape or form. That whole ending montage, in my interpretation, is just showing different ways in which Bruce lets the people close to him know he's alive. Fox realizes the autopilot was fixed before Bruce was "killed." Obviously he lets Alfred see him like he always wanted to, and the signal was for Gordon to know.

I agree that the protector can come in any shape or form. I think Nolan means that Gordon will use it and that Gordon will have an ally in his fight against chaos. This particular position you have is a defendable one though... because as far as what we see in the movie you could well be right... I mean there's no PROOF otherwise. But I think most will agree that the strong implication is that Bruce meant for Gordon to use the light to signal his successor.

Blake finding the Batcave, is probably Bruce giving Blake the resources he needs to carry on. It's actually evocative of when Superman finds the Fortress of Solitude in Donner's movie and he is given advice, technology, and all the knowledge of Krypton. I imagine the Batcave has files, contacts, information and access to funds that Bruce used for crimefighting that Blake will use. Remember how earlier in the movie Batman won't hand over his tech or his methodology to the police because he doesn't trust them not to weaponize it. He doesn't have to worry about Blake. Again this is all inferred from Batman giving the coordinates and the "keys" to the Batcave to Blake. If someone argued it was just all a symbolic gesture to Blake... because the movie ends you can't really "prove" either way because neither is shown in the movie.

And yes the final sequence is out of sync. Would be interesting if we can deduce the correct order (placing all the shots in relation to funeral is a first step). Maybe even check out Gordon's clothing and hair lol might give a hint. I know the novel says the cafe scene is at night in Florence but it's pretty much daylight. Perhaps it's summer there.

ok you're right that the events might have happened in another order. but keep in mind that the sequence shown in the movie is one that Nolan specifically chose in that order. if it's a key point that Blake fixed the Bat Signal then Nolan wouldn't have shown a sequence where that's impossible.

the other side of the argument of course is that Nolan structured that montage purely for the reveal. simply put the most subtle hints are in front and the most blatant (ending with the Alfred actually SEEING Bruce) are at the end. but there's really no indications in the movie at all that Blake fixed the signal.

also keep in mind that the novelization isn't canon. it's just what some writer wrote, after reading the script and production notations.

one interesting thing is that probably the most awesome reveal, when Bruce shows Selina he's alive, Nolan leaves unseen in the movie... it's probably the first reveal that Bruce makes sequentially.

 

[wootbaby]

I love this movie. I loved the ending, this is just nit picking for the fun of it:

In Batman Begins, Ducard/Ra's says the world is too small for Bruce Wayne to hide in.

In The Dark Knight - Lucius tells Reese Bruce Wayne is one of the richest, most powerful men in the world, when Reese is trying to blackmail him.

That being said, wouldn't it be a little more realistic if Bruce didn't really look like Bruce in the cafe scene? I mean, he should have dyed his hair blonde, and/or had on glasses, or shaved his hair down really low military style to not look like Bruce Wayne. He's probably been on magazine covers worldwide, etc. It's like Bill Gates of Microsoft trying to disappear. Someone going to eventually recognize him.

to your point remember that

- in the first movie the Chinese in the SE Asian prison all know who Bruce is. the big thug calls him "rich man"

- in the 3rd movie the crippled doctor knows who Bruce is, asks him how much he would pay him to let him die.

but Nolan gave Bruce 3 outs

1) the clean slate. "Bruce Wayne" doesn't even exist any more

2) they think Bruce is dead. it's assumed he died in the looting. they even settled his estate and had a funeral.

yes there are claims from some unreliable thugs that they captured "Bruce Wayne" on the day before the bomb went off but who's going to believe them? and some Gotham tourists claimed to have seen "Bruce Wayne" in some cafe in Italy along with an attractive brunette but they were probably drunk. the fun part is that in Nolan's universe there probable are scattered "Wayne sightings" for years like Elvis sightings in our universe but everyone knows it's just people's longing for a more genteel and glamorous era of Gotham than anything that's actually possible

3) it's important in the context of the movie that Bruce no longer has to hide. it's very important that Bruce gets to live his life without masks out in the open. disguising him up would have diminished Bruce's resolution in the trilogy

as part of the resolution keep in mind that in the first movie, Rachel tell Bruce that "the boy who went away never came back" and that Bruce Wayne was the mask to his real identity of a rage-obsessed Batman

but in the 3rd movie it becomes clear that Bruce is Bruce, albeit a very damaged version of himself and that Batman isn't something is he any more. that's the journey of Bruce and what these movies are about. he finally has moved on and living his life like his father would have wanted. him giving the pearls to selina is the final nail that shows that he has moved on from his parent's death and can let go. him hiding would make that all false so he has to be out in the open in that cafe scene

 

[kvz5]

one interesting thing is that probably the most awesome reveal, when Bruce shows Selina he's alive, Nolan leaves unseen in the movie... it's probably the first reveal that Bruce makes sequentially.

That's one piece that makes for some interesting discussions/imaginations. Did she look for him after the blast with the hope that he's alive even if he told her that there's no autopilot? Did she leave Gotham right away and he just looked for her or did they leave Gotham together? t:

 

[Mysteryman]

The ending was fine the way it was.t:

Agreed.

 

[kvz5]

After Fox found out that Bruce might be alive, I wonder if he told Alfred about it and that's why Alfred started visiting the cafe again hoping that he might see Bruce... Or is Alfred just been going to the cafe even if everyone accepted that Bruce is dead already.

 

[Masice]

ok you're right that the events might have happened in another order. but keep in mind that the sequence shown in the movie is one that Nolan specifically chose in that order. if it's a key point that Blake fixed the Bat Signal then Nolan wouldn't have shown a sequence where that's impossible.

the other side of the argument of course is that Nolan structured that montage purely for the reveal. simply put the most subtle hints are in front and the most blatant (ending with the Alfred actually SEEING Bruce) are at the end. but there's really no indications in the movie at all that Blake fixed the signal.

also keep in mind that the novelization isn't canon. it's just what some writer wrote, after reading the script and production notations.

I rewatched the ending a few times.It went:
Blake arrives at batcave
Alfred arrive cafe
Gordon glances at fixed batsignal
Blake enters batcave
Alfred gets drink
Blake meets bats
Gordon looks up surprised at signal
Blake stands up and walks to platform
Alfred nods
Blake rises

After a few times watching, the main message I got from Gordon surprised at signal then cut to Blake stands up with bats, is that 1. hey Gordon, don't lose hope, the Batman is alive (immediate cut to Blake standing) and 2. that immediate cut suggests Blake is the new Batman. If it was Bruce's hint, I'm interpreting it as a gesture of encouragement from Bruce/Batman to Gordon. Or could look at it as Blake assuring Gordon that the Batman is alive. The sequence doesn't make this timeline impossible I think. But well...there's no proof and no way of knowing what the timeline is. I even noticed that Gordon wore the same clothing at funeral and at rooftop but that's not a good enough evidence to establish a timeline I think.

 

[AnneFan]

That's one piece that makes for some interesting discussions/imaginations. Did she look for him after the blast with the hope that he's alive even if he told her that there's no autopilot? Did she leave Gotham right away and he just looked for her or did they leave Gotham together? t:

He whipped out his mobile phone straight after and sent this text message:

Cat, this is bat. I'm alive. Get your things. Going to Italy.

 

[kvz5]

He whipped out his mobile phone straight after and sent this text message:

Cat, this is bat. I'm alive. Get your things. Going to Italy.

 

[georgec]

He whipped out his mobile phone straight after and sent this text message:

Cat, this is bat. I'm alive. Get your things. Going to Italy.

p.s. - bring da sexy boots

 

[AnneFan]

Cat then sent a message to Jen: "It's over. I'm going to Italy."

 

[kthevs]

also keep in mind that the novelization isn't canon. it's just what some writer wrote, after reading the script and production notations.

It's New York times bestselling writer Greg Cox, who worked with multiple WB people and Emma Thomas while writing the book.

 

[kthevs]

When and where is that pic from?

 

[craigdbfan]

Cat then sent a message to Jen: "It's over. I'm going to Italy."

Jen:

 

[Sun_Down]

All the people going, "It wasn't confusing at all! You're just stupid!" need to stop being so condescending. The ending clearly DID confuse people. Just admitting that the movie wasn't perfect doesn't mean it wasn't great. Nolan is actually not infallible. And in a lot of people's opinions, they SLIGHTLY fumbled the ending.

I know they were trying to trick us into thinking Batman was in the ship when it exploded, but for a series that has, to an extent, prided itself on some level of plausibility, this one just left people scratching their heads. Say he ejects at 30 seconds. So the Bat goes five miles in 30 seconds? Or he ejects into something that can move him farther away? It's POSSIBLE, just not super plausible, that's all. Granted, I've only seen it *gasp* once, but they could have edited that scene better.

 

[Jedm1991]

all the people going, "it wasn't confusing at all! You're just stupid!" need to stop being so condescending. The ending clearly did confuse people. Just admitting that the movie wasn't perfect doesn't mean it wasn't great. Nolan is actually not infallible. And in a lot of people's opinions, they slightly fumbled the ending.

I know they were trying to trick us into thinking batman was in the ship when it exploded, but for a series that has, to an extent, prided itself on some level of plausibility, this one just left people scratching their heads. Say he ejects at 30 seconds. So the bat goes five miles in 30 seconds? Or he ejects into something that can move him farther away? It's possible, just not super plausible, that's all. Granted, i've only seen it *gasp* once, but they could have edited that scene better.

a u t o - p i l o t

 

[Sun_Down]

a u t o - p i l o t

Now exactly what part of my post makes you think I didn't understand the part of the ending that was explicitly explained on screen? Yes, the autopilot was fixed, duh. The implausible part is that he ejected with enough time to be clear of a NUCLEAR BOMB. Again, not ****ting on Nolan or the series, just acknowledging that the ending was a bit awkward.

 

[Norek]

He may have dropped down in the water at some point before the blast.

 

[Doc Samson]

All the people going, "It wasn't confusing at all! You're just stupid!" need to stop being so condescending. The ending clearly DID confuse people. Just admitting that the movie wasn't perfect doesn't mean it wasn't great. Nolan is actually not infallible. And in a lot of people's opinions, they SLIGHTLY fumbled the ending.

My only real problem with this movie overall is that the tone is decidedly less plausible and more comic-like than the previous two films. On one hand, it allowed for the best action of the trilogy, but at the same time, it doesn't really seem to "fit" in a sense.

Just seeing Batman, Catwoman & Bane all in costume at the same time is somewhat jarring, in comparison to what came before. I suspect a lot of issues people have stem from this on some subconscious level, because most of the nitpicks appear to come from things of that nature. Nolan spent two films explaining virtually every aspect of the more "superhero" intricacies, almost to a fault. Suddenly in TDKR, he didn't, and some of the "grounded realism" was a lot less stringent.

 

[Norek]

My only real problem with this movie overall is that the tone is decidedly less plausible and more comic-like than the previous two films. On one hand, it allowed for the best action of the trilogy, but at the same time, it doesn't really seem to "fit" in a sense.

Just seeing Batman, Catwoman & Bane all in costume at the same time is somewhat jarring, in comparison to what came before. I suspect a lot of issues people have stem from this on some subconscious level, because most of the nitpicks appear to come from things of that nature. Nolan spent two films explaining virtually every aspect of the more "superhero" intricacies, almost to a fault. Suddenly in TDKR, he didn't, and some of the "grounded realism" was a lot less stringent.

I didn't find it jarring, to be honest. Batman is already established in this universe, and both Bane and Catwoman were dressed to "function", if I can put it that way.

 

[Doc Samson]

I agree that the protector can come in any shape or form. I think Nolan means that Gordon will use it and that Gordon will have an ally in his fight against chaos. This particular position you have is a defendable one though... because as far as what we see in the movie you could well be right... I mean there's no PROOF otherwise. But I think most will agree that the strong implication is that Bruce meant for Gordon to use the light to signal his successor.

Blake finding the Batcave, is probably Bruce giving Blake the resources he needs to carry on. It's actually evocative of when Superman finds the Fortress of Solitude in Donner's movie and he is given advice, technology, and all the knowledge of Krypton. I imagine the Batcave has files, contacts, information and access to funds that Bruce used for crimefighting that Blake will use. Remember how earlier in the movie Batman won't hand over his tech or his methodology to the police because he doesn't trust them not to weaponize it. He doesn't have to worry about Blake. Again this is all inferred from Batman giving the coordinates and the "keys" to the Batcave to Blake. If someone argued it was just all a symbolic gesture to Blake... because the movie ends you can't really "prove" either way because neither is shown in the movie.

Very astute, and I agree with the majority of it. My only contention in my previous post was that the signal, IMO, isn't a direct connection between Blake becoming a literal Batman. I think Blake becomes some sort of crime fighter, in the vein of Batman, but not the exact same symbol. Most importantly he's much smaller than Bruce, so none of the equipment would fit him as constituted anyway, nor does he know how to use any of it.

I believe the signal was just a message to Gordon like the autopilot was to Lucius, but to me that's the beauty of the ending, it can be interpreted in a couple different ways depending on what the viewer wants it to be. And we can continue it in our minds as we wish...

I didn't find it jarring, to be honest. Batman is already established in this universe, and both Bane and Catwoman were dressed to "function", if I can put it that way.

It was for me. Batman was the only one with a real "costume" throughout this whole series. You could argue the Joker, but it was more just paint and whatever clothes he threw together, not a literal outfit.

 

[zmystico]

This is a great video explaining the Robin John Blake part of the ending. Might answer a few questions some may have.

[YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmHJvPAQoAU[/YT]

Thanks for that and I totally agree with what he said...but I want this series to end with this...it's come full circle, nothing else needs be added

 

[YoungE808]

Was that really Selina Kyle with Wayne at the cafe? I thought it was some random woman.