The Dark Knight Rises Clearing up the ending of TDKR (MUST READ)

[UaalaDan]

From the novelization:



Pretty sad when you think about it.

It's pretty sad because it's pretty ridiculous that the writers didn't address this since Bruce Wayne is....the goddamn main character of the movie!!!

 

[747]

I don't get how people don't get or like Bane's plan or motivation.

He uses Gotham like the prison he grew up in. He gives them that hope, that makes the suffering even worse, especially when you start to realize it's a false hope and there is only first despair and then death to be found.

The plan differs from Ra's this way, the methods are too extreme even for Ra's, who saw that in Bane early on and thu excluding him. An exclusion that pushed his own daughter away from him.

For Bane, destroying Gotham right away isn't a punishment severe enough, they shall suffer like he suffered. He parallels this on a more personal level with Bruce. Like Bane says, he is a torturer not of the body but of the soul, he wants both Bruce Wayne and Gotham to know escape is physically near but yet in theory so far away.

As for why he chose Gotham, well it's quite obvious with the connections to Talia, Ra's and the LOS. And I also think he personally dislikes Batman cause of being excluded by Ra's, while Ra's instead actively tried to make Bruce a new leader for LOS against Gotham.

 

[stillanerd]

Bane told them the truth that Dent wasn't a hero but he lies about everything else. He's really sarcastic telling the people to RISE and how he's offering them freedom from oppression. Even this is just a mockery of Batman's hope in the first movie that he could be the symbol that made the people of Gotham RISE up and take back their city from the criminals. Bane is putting himself in Bruce's shoes as that symbol but twisting the message to bring more pain to Bruce.

Exactly. And good point about Bane painting himself as a false inspirational symbol for Gotham (while tearing down the other one of Harvey Dent in the process) as a contrast for Bruce wanting to have Batman be a true inspirational symbol for Gotham. It just further emphasizes how Bane is Bruce's dark reflection.

The reason why he frees the prisoners isn't principle but tactics. The National Guard captain on the bridge laughs at the minion "how many men do you have son?" Pointing out rightly that they dont have the manpower to control the city or even prevent ppl from leaving. Bane arms the prisoners and tells them to join him, as a mercenary force. The bit about corruption is just nonsense that he's spewing for fun.

Yep.

Yeah he keeps the city alive to torture Bruce and the entire bit about lifting oppression and corruption is the bit of sunlight for the people of Gotham as they're being held prisoner. It's false hope.

Keeping all the cops underground plays into that bit about torturing souls with false hope (since it's all going to blow none of that **** even matters TBH to Bane. he could kill them now or 5 months from now... it's all mathematical certainty to Bane) I understand the plot device and the logic in the movie but that part still seemed kinda dumb to me

For Talia it makes sense why she was so fixated on Bruce and Gotham. Just like Bruce was obsessive about avenging his father's death and taking his father's mission to save Gotham (Thomas Wayne had done it through charity and good works... and even given his life to the very people he was trying to save). There's a Nolan symmetry in Talia also being fixated on avenging her father's death and finishing his mission to destroy Gotham (the world's greatest city according to the movies)

But for Bane I have my own pet belief (totally not proven by any means) that the events with Ras in Batman Begins began shortly after he expelled Bane... the math matches up as far as timeline... to find a new successor. Bane sees himself as Ras successor and the League of Shadows so he has an obsessive hatred of Bruce and torturing more of the people Bruce failed to protect bring him more pleasure.

There's also his undying loyalty to Talia, don't forget that. The other thing is if you go back to Batman Begins, what was Ra's al Ghul's original plan for Bruce? Bruce was supposed to be the inspirational "prince of Gotham" who lead the army into the city and tear it down while Ra's would stay "in the shadows" if you will, giving Bruce his orders. In The Dark Knight Rises, however, we see Bane leading the League of Shadows into Gotham to systematically tear it down--the very thing Ra's al Ghul wanted Bruce to do--while Talia, who has essentially taken her father's place as the new Ra's al Ghul, his giving Bane orders from behind the scenes.

I don't get how people don't get or like Bane's plan or motivation.

He uses Gotham like the prison he grew up in. He gives them that hope, that makes the suffering even worse, especially when you start to realize it's a false hope and there is only first despair and then death to be found.

The plan differs from Ra's this way, the methods are too extreme even for Ra's, who saw that in Bane early on and thu excluding him. An exclusion that pushed his own daughter away from him.

For Bane, destroying Gotham right away isn't a punishment severe enough, they shall suffer like he suffered. He parallels this on a more personal level with Bruce. Like Bane says, he is a torturer not of the body but of the soul, he wants both Bruce Wayne and Gotham to know escape is physically near but yet in theory so far away.

As for why he chose Gotham, well it's quite obvious with the connections to Talia, Ra's and the LOS. And I also think he personally dislikes Batman cause of being excluded by Ra's, while Ra's instead actively tried to make Bruce a new leader for LOS against Gotham.

Agreed. Doug Walker, aka the Nostalgia Critic, also claimed in his review that Bane's goal and motivation doesn't make any sense when anyone who had been paying the slightest attention to the film knew it was plain as day: it was all about getting revenge against Batman for his killing Ra's al Ghul and defeating the League of Shadows in the first movie. One of the many things about that particular review which was annoying.

 

[Masice]

Hi guys, lurker around here. Wanted to share my perspective on the ending based on my second viewing and the novel's ending. Not sure if this was said already but basically in trying to create a more definite ending in my mind, I see it as Blake taking the mantle, then Blake fixing the signal to continue the legend. Here's my thinking:

The final scenes:When Bruce comes back, the scenes are all jumbled up and out of sync especially how Bane calls Miranda and then the next scene we have a captive Bruce meeting Miranda and Fox. So of course for editing purposes the scenes were not linear. So on the second viewing the scenes of funeral, bat signal, blake at cave, fox auto pilot, alfred at cafe, are probably jumbled up as well. Especially how Blake arrives at the cave in daylight but Gordon sees the fixed signal at night. In the novel's ending, those scenes also run after another even though they are obviously out of sync ("gordon...making his nightly escape" & "Blake left the daylight behind".

In my first viewing, I took it as Bruce leaving all these people signs that he's alive (e.g. fixed signal). This time around, and with the novel in mind (Gordon's paragraph ends with "Then he stared up at the night sky, looking for a sign. Perhaps he wasn't on his own after all."), I thought of it differently. Bruce left the Batman legacy for Blake to continue but it's really up to Blake. Does he want to become Batman? Or not? But when he did decide to become Batman, he goes to the rooftop signal and fixes it, giving Gordon hope that Gordon is not alone in his fight. I just thought that this way of thinking helps because Bruce may not know that Blake will wear the Batman mask, all Bruce told him was to wear a mask. So leave it up to Blake. When he's ready mentally to take up the mantle, Blake can fix the signal and continue the legend of Batman.

This helps me find a satisfying and definite conclusion in my mind. Bruce leaves it up to Blake --> Blake goes to cave --> Blake decides to take up Batman mantle --> Blake fixes signal --> Gordon finds renewed hope through the fixed signal (at least in the novel Gordon didn't immediately think that Bruce is alive after seeing the fixed signal, just that "perhaps he wasn't on his own"). So there's no questions whether Blake becomes Nightwing or something else (in this interpretation). He becomes Batman.

 

[Schlosser85]

I too had the impression it was Blake who fixed the signal, not Bruce.

 

[wootbaby]

From the movie it's definitely not Blake who fixes the Bat Signal. Gordon finds it before Blake even explores the Batcave

It's not really important who fixes it. Bruce could have had the North Korean or Illuminati workers who built the new Batcave or smurfs or w/e fix it

Like Masice says, Bruce left the Bat Signal, not only for Gordon to know he's alive but for Gordon to USE. When he needs help he'll light it up and someone will come... will it be Blake's Batman, Robin, Nightwing or w/e no one knows but that's not important and that's why Nolan leaves it ambiguous so you can decide for yourself depending on whoever you want it to be.

There's many hints in the movie though that Blake will be a different type of hero... he refuses to wear masks, he operates in the daylight. He even says "I'm not afraid to be seen standing up to these guys" almost exactly what Dent says about the criminals in TDK. Gotham needed a Dark Knight in its time of most violent crisis, but there's hints all over DKR that Blake will be a new type of hero... a sort of combination of Bruce's Dark Knight and Dent's White Knight... the hero that Gotham needs at the time.

Blake is a line of heroes for Gotham. Starting with Thomas Wayne, then Bruce then Blake. Each the hero that the city NEEDS at the time. At the time of financial meltdown the city needed Thomas' philanthropy and good works. When criminals overran the city greedy for Gotham's newfound prosperity it needed Batman... now in the post-Bane post-Batman world it needs Blake.

 

[Darkmania]

Hi guys, lurker around here. Wanted to share my perspective on the ending based on my second viewing and the novel's ending. Not sure if this was said already but basically in trying to create a more definite ending in my mind, I see it as Blake taking the mantle, then Blake fixing the signal to continue the legend. Here's my thinking:

The final scenes:When Bruce comes back, the scenes are all jumbled up and out of sync especially how Bane calls Miranda and then the next scene we have a captive Bruce meeting Miranda and Fox. So of course for editing purposes the scenes were not linear. So on the second viewing the scenes of funeral, bat signal, blake at cave, fox auto pilot, alfred at cafe, are probably jumbled up as well. Especially how Blake arrives at the cave in daylight but Gordon sees the fixed signal at night. In the novel's ending, those scenes also run after another even though they are obviously out of sync ("gordon...making his nightly escape" & "Blake left the daylight behind".

In my first viewing, I took it as Bruce leaving all these people signs that he's alive (e.g. fixed signal). This time around, and with the novel in mind (Gordon's paragraph ends with "Then he stared up at the night sky, looking for a sign. Perhaps he wasn't on his own after all."), I thought of it differently. Bruce left the Batman legacy for Blake to continue but it's really up to Blake. Does he want to become Batman? Or not? But when he did decide to become Batman, he goes to the rooftop signal and fixes it, giving Gordon hope that Gordon is not alone in his fight. I just thought that this way of thinking helps because Bruce may not know that Blake will wear the Batman mask, all Bruce told him was to wear a mask. So leave it up to Blake. When he's ready mentally to take up the mantle, Blake can fix the signal and continue the legend of Batman.

This helps me find a satisfying and definite conclusion in my mind. Bruce leaves it up to Blake --> Blake goes to cave --> Blake decides to take up Batman mantle --> Blake fixes signal --> Gordon finds renewed hope through the fixed signal (at least in the novel Gordon didn't immediately think that Bruce is alive after seeing the fixed signal, just that "perhaps he wasn't on his own"). So there's no questions whether Blake becomes Nightwing or something else (in this interpretation). He becomes Batman.

So then Gordon is the only one not given a hint that Bruce is still alive?

 

[Masice]

I would say that we have no idea the final scenes are in the timeline. With Bruce's return, even with the weird editing of meeting Miranda, we can deduce it. But the final scenes are kind of hard to spot with the exception of Blake getting bag --> Blake head to cave, and funeral --> cafe (some time later possibly with help of tracking the necklace). So I'm suggesting that perhaps that shot of Gordon going up on his "nightly routine", as I think the novel puts it, may not be a day/night before Blake takes the mantle and fixes it.

I can see what you mean about what kind of hero Gotham needs. That line does get used a lot in the trilogy especially in TDKR. But perhaps whenever danger rises, just as Alfred argues Bruce is needed as Bruce and Bruce argues he is needed as Batman, Blake would do the same (mentor to the orphanage vs hero or something like that).

Well about Gordon not getting the hint. I'd imagine when he does use the signal and meet the new hero, let's say it's the new Batman, he'll be totally different that Gordon knows it's not Bruce.

 

[Midnight Black]

& I'm sure Gordon will be able to tell that it is Blake.....However, that is assuming that Blake goes to Gordon if the signal is used, and more importantly if they will even have to use the signal given Gotham's new found sense of law and order. Plus, seeing as how I'm sure Gordon still thinks he is dead even though the signal is restored he may not even use it.

 

[Masice]

I think Gordon will use it. His first reaction was that of surprise. His second reaction was looking up at the sky with a hint of hope. Whoever fixed it, Gordon knows that he has someone beside him (Gordon telling Blake in the film that he hopes Blake has someone beside him when putting his hands in the mud...well maybe not that relevant a line). The novel also tries to be more specific in Gordon's internal thought, "Then he stared up at the night sky, looking for a sign. Perhaps he wasn't on his own after all."

 

[ABleedingCorpse]

I think Gordon will use it. His first reaction was that of surprise. His second reaction was looking up at the sky with a hint of hope. Whoever fixed it, Gordon knows that he has someone beside him (Gordon telling Blake in the film that he hopes Blake has someone beside him when putting his hands in the mud...well maybe not that relevant a line). The novel also tries to be more specific in Gordon's internal thought, "Then he stared up at the night sky, looking for a sign. Perhaps he wasn't on his own after all."

I love Gordons reaction. He smiles from ear to ear after realizing that the Bat-Signal is indeed real and fixed. He looks out into the sky full of hope, releaved that his fear of being alone is gone. I personally want to think that this is his way of believing that Bruce is alive and that there is no guilt to be felt after the events of the bomb blast. The look on his face as he looks at the statue is depressing. He feels so alone in that scene, and is again haunted by keeping the truth from the people of Gotham as to who Batman really was under the mask...but all of those feelings are lifted from his soul once he see's the signal is fixed. HE KNOWS...HE KNOWS...the Batman is still alive and well.

 

[TheBat812]

I think the beauty is that the end gives us both hope for the future and a hint that Bruce is definitely alive. I really don't think Blake fixed the signal. I agree with ABleedingCorpse on this one. Gordon (and the audience) realizes Bruce lives on, and he once again made a decision a dark, not a white knight, could make.

 

[kvz5]

Gordon's face to me is like "Bruce Wayne! You son of a *****! You're alive! You had me again!"

 

[Masice]

Those are great observations. I agree that while the novel doesn't clearly say he was thinking of Bruce internally when he saw the signal, if I were him I'd definitely first go "Bruce??" then go "Glad I'm not alone". This scene is definitely post funeral. So say he goes to the other guys and ask them about Bruce. Fox shares the autopilot hint, Alfred keeps quiet or depending on the timeline, has not visited the cafe, Blake keeps quiet since he's taken up the mantle. Long time later, a new evil rises, Gordon uses the signal, Batman comes back, and to Gordon it's obvious it's not Bruce. He'll ask him "Who are you?". Blake/Batman replies "I'm Batman".

I'm just thinking the final sequence timeline is out of sync. If Bruce fixes the signal, he does give Gordon a hope and a hint, but Bruce didn't actually know that Blake is going to take up the Batman persona. He did leave that door open to Blake though so maybe he did fully know. Either way, be it Bruce or Blake that fixed the signal, I think the main message was "Batman is alive" and not so much "Hey Gordon I'm still alive". The significant relationship was always Batman and Gordon.

 

[Doc Samson]

Personally, I always thought Bruce had the signal fixed as his way to show Gordon he's alive, not necessarily to use. Because I don't think Blake would become "Batman" but something similar, be it Nightwing or whatever. I never interpreted Bruce giving him the cave as anything more than a call to action. For Blake to understand that he needs to step up now and fulfill the role of protector. That protector can come in any shape or form. That whole ending montage, in my interpretation, is just showing different ways in which Bruce lets the people close to him know he's alive. Fox realizes the autopilot was fixed before Bruce was "killed." Obviously he lets Alfred see him like he always wanted to, and the signal was for Gordon to know.

 

[Liam_H]

Signal being fixed is to show that he's alive and also that someone is still around to help. Gordon probably thinks its still Batman but he wouldn't know until Blake meets up with him in his alter ego whatever it is.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I never imagined that when Bruce says "Watch for my sign" in BB, that it would apply to the ending of Rises.

Gordon saw his sign

 

[Golgo-13]

I don't see it as Bruc fixing the sign. The events in the final montage obviously weren't happening in real time. The cafe scene was probably months, or a year after Bruce's death, so there's no definitive proof that the signal shot happened right after the events in TDKR.

I think it was Blake that fixed the signal. Gordon obviously won't know that until he and 'Robin' meet, but the shot earlier in the film of Blake looking at the broken signal and his convo with Gordon on the roof ties right into that scene.

And i've been reading that the cafe scene could have been a dream sequence. It can't be because Selina was in it. Alfred had no idea that Bruce and her had become bonded. The last time he saw Selina was at the beginning of the movie, and left well before her allegiance with Batman.

 

[UaalaDan]

To me it was pretty clear that it was Bruce who change his will, fixed the autopilot and survived, faked his death and fixed the Bat-signal.

 

[Prison Mike]

From the novelization:



Pretty sad when you think about it.

Honestly, I just figured that the people of Gotham thought Bruce died either during the riots or when they were exiling the rich people and made them go out on the ice.

 

[kthevs]

I don't see it as Bruc fixing the sign. The events in the final montage obviously weren't happening in real time. The cafe scene was probably months, or a year after Bruce's death, so there's no definitive proof that the signal shot happened right after the events in TDKR.

I think it was Blake that fixed the signal. Gordon obviously won't know that until he and 'Robin' meet, but the shot earlier in the film of Blake looking at the broken signal and his convo with Gordon on the roof ties right into that scene.

And i've been reading that the cafe scene could have been a dream sequence. It can't be because Selina was in it. Alfred had no idea that Bruce and her had become bonded. The last time he saw Selina was at the beginning of the movie, and left well before her allegiance with Batman.

The novel makes it pretty clear it's not a dream. 99.9% of people realize that.

 

[Broker]

And i've been reading that the cafe scene could have been a dream sequence.

A minority of people do seem obsessed with that idea after Inception. Probably did not help that Alfred had previously discussed imagining it in identical fashion and that the scene was over-saturated colour wise which gave it a dreamy quality.

 

[DigificWriter]

Nolan drops a lot of subtle clues, as well as a few not-so-subtle ones, that telegraph Blake's fate and the film's final scene. As I've said before, the only thing Nolan could've done to be more clear vis a vis John Blake and the film's ending would've been to show Blake putting on the Batsuit.

 

[UaalaDan]

It's not a dream. There's way too many auto-pilot quotes in the movie.

 

[Masice]

Yeah some people still think the ending is a dream. But well the novel and multiple viewings have disproved this. Especially how Selina's wearing a necklace.

I agree with Golgo-13 on Blake fixing the signal. That's a great observation you have about the callback to the earlier scene with Blake and Gordon. Also I think the message is somewhat different for each hint given to the people. For Fox, his discovery relieves his heart knowing that Bruce is probably alive. For Alfred, probably with the help of tracking the necklace, he's relieved Bruce has moved on to a better life. For Blake, he's embracing the keys to the batman that Bruce has given him ("you can thank me later"). For Gordon however, it's mostly knowing that Batman is alive and he is not alone in his fight.

And yes the final sequence is out of sync. Would be interesting if we can deduce the correct order (placing all the shots in relation to funeral is a first step). Maybe even check out Gordon's clothing and hair lol might give a hint. I know the novel says the cafe scene is at night in Florence but it's pretty much daylight. Perhaps it's summer there.