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Cat then sent a message to Jen: "It's over. I'm going to Italy."
Jen:
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Cat then sent a message to Jen: "It's over. I'm going to Italy."
Jen:
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Bane told them the truth that Dent wasn't a hero but he lies about everything else. He's really sarcastic telling the people to RISE and how he's offering them freedom from oppression. Even this is just a mockery of Batman's hope in the first movie that he could be the symbol that made the people of Gotham RISE up and take back their city from the criminals. Bane is putting himself in Bruce's shoes as that symbol but twisting the message to bring more pain to Bruce.
The reason why he frees the prisoners isn't principle but tactics. The National Guard captain on the bridge laughs at the minion "how many men do you have son?" Pointing out rightly that they dont have the manpower to control the city or even prevent ppl from leaving. Bane arms the prisoners and tells them to join him, as a mercenary force. The bit about corruption is just nonsense that he's spewing for fun.
Yeah he keeps the city alive to torture Bruce and the entire bit about lifting oppression and corruption is the bit of sunlight for the people of Gotham as they're being held prisoner. It's false hope.
Keeping all the cops underground plays into that bit about torturing souls with false hope (since it's all going to blow none of that **** even matters TBH to Bane. he could kill them now or 5 months from now... it's all mathematical certainty to Bane) I understand the plot device and the logic in the movie but that part still seemed kinda dumb to me
For Talia it makes sense why she was so fixated on Bruce and Gotham. Just like Bruce was obsessive about avenging his father's death and taking his father's mission to save Gotham (Thomas Wayne had done it through charity and good works... and even given his life to the very people he was trying to save). There's a Nolan symmetry in Talia also being fixated on avenging her father's death and finishing his mission to destroy Gotham (the world's greatest city according to the movies)
But for Bane I have my own pet belief (totally not proven by any means) that the events with Ras in Batman Begins began shortly after he expelled Bane... the math matches up as far as timeline... to find a new successor. Bane sees himself as Ras successor and the League of Shadows so he has an obsessive hatred of Bruce and torturing more of the people Bruce failed to protect bring him more pleasure.
Perhaps a fan fiction follow on story can focus on a bitter Jen sneaking around Italy searching for Selina, also trying to kill Bruce for taking Selina away from her.
All the people going, "It wasn't confusing at all! You're just stupid!" need to stop being so condescending. The ending clearly DID confuse people. Just admitting that the movie wasn't perfect doesn't mean it wasn't great. Nolan is actually not infallible. And in a lot of people's opinions, they SLIGHTLY fumbled the ending.
I know they were trying to trick us into thinking Batman was in the ship when it exploded, but for a series that has, to an extent, prided itself on some level of plausibility, this one just left people scratching their heads. Say he ejects at 30 seconds. So the Bat goes five miles in 30 seconds? Or he ejects into something that can move him farther away? It's POSSIBLE, just not super plausible, that's all. Granted, I've only seen it *gasp* once, but they could have edited that scene better.
Great points. That got me on a subconcious level as well. BEGINS and TDK were so grounded, that seeing all these costume characters, and a female kicking all kinds of ass in an uber macho and believable setting without the slightest bit of explanation was on some levels a bit jarring.My only real problem with this movie overall is that the tone is decidedly less plausible and more comic-like than the previous two films. On one hand, it allowed for the best action of the trilogy, but at the same time, it doesn't really seem to "fit" in a sense.
Really? I felt it was the natural transition. I knew Nolan was going to take what worked best in BEGINS and go full bore in the next installment.The change from Begins to Dark Knight was actually the most jarring to me in terms of tone and style.
In some superficial ways it is ... but it's not.TDKR was the most comic booky in some ways
Well that's why elements are so jarring compared to the first two films. Nolan took the time to explain everything in interestng detail, breaking down typical superhero myth and showing what these people would be in the real world with functioning plausibility. But there is so much ground to cover in this script ... they didn't even have time to go into such things like Selina and her skilled fighting / gadgets ... and even cut scenes like Bane training and the origins of his mask, etc.so I'm glad they just let certain things be (like Catwoman's gear) and left some stuff to the imagination this time. It allowed for some fun moments without ever getting too campy
Really? I felt it was the natural transition. I knew Nolan was going to take what worked best in BEGINS and go full bore in the next installment.
Plus the slow transition with Crane, and the use of the suit from BEGINS and its story explanation for being changed created a nice ease of transition for me, personally.
In some superficial ways it is ... but it's not.
The 1st half of the film is very TDK esque in terms of tone.
After the Batman gets broken, it u-turns and heads back to the more comic book roots of Batman Begins, but does so in a more subtle and IMO classier way.
BEGINS is the most "comic booky" of the three because of the genre of film that movie is structured to be.
BEGINS - Superhero Film
The Dark Knight - Crime Drama Film
The Dark Knight Rises - Disaster / War Film
Well that's why elements are so jarring compared to the first two films. Nolan took the time to explain everything in interestng detail, breaking down typical superhero myth and showing what these people would be in the real world with functioning plausibility. But there is so much ground to cover in this script ... they didn't even have time to go into such things like Selina and her skilled fighting / gadgets ... and even cut scenes like Bane training and the origins of his mask, etc.
The 1st half of the film is very TDK esque in terms of tone.
After the Batman gets broken, it u-turns and heads back to the more comic book roots of Batman Begins, but does so in a more subtle and IMO classier way.
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Selena is NOT wearing the pearl necklace at the cafe. So enough of the "Alfred tracked them down" nonsense.
Exactly. Nolan made it flamingly obvious that Bruce was alive. There's no need for any further explanation.I wouldn't call them slow. I would say a lot of people have a very passive attitude towards cinema. They dont care for subtext, thematic implications , characters motivations. Subtlety doesn't exist (and i dont even think thats the case with TDKR) It's all about the superficial layers of narratives structure. The little tricks. But even those might escape them.
The autpilot is brought like 4 times in the movie for no apparent reason. Its classic tool of narrative. If someone doesn't get that , he simply wasn't paying attention to the movie.
I've had a lot of friends ask me about what the deal was with the last shot of Batman in the cockpit before the bomb went off. I always said I figured it was just the film playing tricks on us with the chronology and showing a "flashback" to Batman right before he ejects within a safe distance of the blast.
I have a new theory now though:
What if The Bat's cockpit was an escape pod, and that escape pod could serve as a mini submarine? Pretty much just like Batman Forever. So the close-up shot of him in the cockpit could have been under water. This would also make for the perfect undetected escape to anywhere off the Gotham mainland (probably Wayne Manor, to ya know...pack and stuff).
Some might say it's too outrageous to assume something like that especially when Lucius never mentions anything about it in the film, but it's not like we saw him mention anything to Bruce about the Tumbler having an awesome motorcycle escape pod, so I say it's fair game. Outlandish I know, but it works for me![]()