Fantastic Four reborn! - - - - Part 13

[batdude]

There may have been a change because Col. Talbot (A Hulk supporting character)showed up on Agents of Shield.

 

[Eddie]

So the Leader is definitely out? Or at least TBN is no longer in the MCU?

Rick Hoffman would've been ideal for the Moleman.

I don't think this necessarily confirms Tim Blake Nelson will never return to the MCU. Plenty of actors have played Marvel characters in two separate film continuities.

 

[Zarex]

Some new information regarding the possibility of Marvel licensed character families crossing over from an interview with the producers of The Amazing Spider-Man 2:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...-tv-shows-20140429?page=3#blogPostHeaderPanel

Arad: I'll tell you seriously… Wolverine. And Beast. There was an episode that was in the comics where Spider-Man became Man-Spider and he needs help. He is mutating. He has to go find Professor Xavier. So he has to go and find these people and it's a fantastic story, how he comes to them to look for help. And the guy who doesn't trust him is Wolverine. He says, "You cover your face, why would I trust you?" But Beast understands the dilemma. That would be a fascinating story and it's still central to Spider-Man. It's all about Spider-Man at the end of the day. Now, for Sony and Fox to make this deal and for Disney to endorse it... We'll probably have peace in the Middle East before that.

If Sony and FOX have unlimited cinematic rights in regards to Marvel licensed characters, why would Disney have to endorse it? If a Spidey/X-Men crossover requires Disney approval under the existing contracts, that would also hold true for an X-Men/FF crossover.

 

[Orba]

If Sony and FOX have unlimited cinematic rights in regards to Marvel licensed characters, why would Disney have to endorse it? If a Spidey/X-Men crossover requires Disney approval under the existing contracts, that would also hold true for an X-Men/FF crossover.

I would assume that it means that while they are all licensed franchise based on Marvel properties; the contract sees them as individual franchise, not part of a single larger property. So from a contract perspective the X-Men have as much to do with Spider-man as the Alien franchise does. For any cross over to occur would require Marvel to approve.

The only known crossover so far was when Kingpin appeared in Daredevil. Before that he was part of the Spider-Man franchise but Fox made a deal with Sony to use him. It would appear that Marvel was involved in that deal as the Kingpin character is now either part of the Daredevil franchise, or at least shared between Spider-man and Daredevil. Marvel as the owner would have to have been involved in contract changes like that (as far as I can see).

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Now, for Sony and Fox to make this deal and for Disney to endorse it... We'll probably have peace in the Middle East before that.

If Sony and FOX have unlimited cinematic rights in regards to Marvel licensed characters, why would Disney have to endorse it? If a Spidey/X-Men crossover requires Disney approval under the existing contracts, that would also hold true for an X-Men/FF crossover.

Great find Zarex. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I don't think this necessarily confirms Tim Blake Nelson will never return to the MCU. Plenty of actors have played Marvel characters in two separate film continuities.

The only example of what you are describing that I can think of is Chris Evans but by the time he agreed to do Cap the Alba FF franchise was long dead.

Personally I think it's weird. It takes me out of the element a little because I like to associate a character with the actor. Thankfully Evans has so grown into his role as the perfect Cap that I don't associate him with Johnny Storm at all anymore. If he was still playing Johnny Storm concurrently I probably would be sitting there thinking he's Cap.

 

[EssayM]

The only example of what you are describing that I can think of is Chris Evans but by the time he agreed to do Cap the Alba FF franchise was long dead.

Personally I think it's weird. It takes me out of the element a little because I like to associate a character with the actor. Thankfully Evans has so grown into his role as the perfect Cap that I don't associate him with Johnny Storm at all anymore. If he was still playing Johnny Storm concurrently I probably would be sitting there thinking he's Cap.

I guess you could technically say Ryan Reynolds (Deadpool and Green Lantern), but both of those movies bombed and one of them was DC, so it probably doesn't count (He also played Hannibal King in Blade Trinity, so that's something). There's also Sam Elliot (2003 Gen. Ross and the Caretaker from Ghost Rider), Ray Stevenson (The Punisher and Volstagg from Thor), and Jon Favreau (Foggy Nelson in Daredevil, Happy Hogan in Iron Man). Granted, most of those are background characters, but they still kind of count.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

I guess you could technically say Ryan Reynolds (Deadpool and Green Lantern), but both of those movies bombed and one of them was DC, so it probably doesn't count (He also played Hannibal King in Blade Trinity, so that's something). There's also Sam Elliot (2003 Gen. Ross and the Caretaker from Ghost Rider), Ray Stevenson (The Punisher and Volstagg from Thor), and Jon Favreau (Foggy Nelson in Daredevil, Happy Hogan in Iron Man). Granted, most of those are background characters, but they still kind of count.

Yeah that's actually quite a list! I forgot about all those.

The thing is though I don't believe that in any of those situations the roles have ever really overlapped. The new role supplants the old - there's yet to be an actor who simultaneously played both roles in an ongoing series. I suppose if Reynolds ever gets around to playing Deadpool that might buck the trend but most people want to forget how he was portrayed in Borigins and Green Lantern was one and done. Plus as you say that's DC/Marvel.

The Punisher flopped so I don't think Stevenson is ever going to reprise that role. I just thought of Halle Berry also but again that's WB/DC and Catwoman was another one and done flop.

I suppose if the FF reboot does in fact flop they could bring Nelson back ala Storm but other than continuity I don't really see the need. He seems very replaceable and the Leader would A) be a completely different personality than how "Mr. Blue" was portrayed and B) be under heavy prosthetic makeup.

It's kind of like the Red Skull situation. I believe his demise was intentionally ambiguous and I'm certain he's coming back at some point. Not only is he Cap's arch nemesis there's no way you discard an A-list Marvel villain like that. However, it sounds like Weaving is done and doesn't want to don the makeup again. Recasting someone under the makeup would not be that noticeable.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

If Sony and FOX have unlimited cinematic rights in regards to Marvel licensed characters, why would Disney have to endorse it? If a Spidey/X-Men crossover requires Disney approval under the existing contracts, that would also hold true for an X-Men/FF crossover.

I feel nearly certain at this point that Fox would need Disney/Marvel approval for a crossover.

Whether they grant that approval will probably depend on circumstances, but I think every mention we've seen of a crossover from Fox is done with the idea that Marvel will say it's okay.

 

[Donut]

I feel nearly certain at this point that Fox would need Disney/Marvel approval for a crossover.

Whether they grant that approval will probably depend on circumstances, but I think every mention we've seen of a crossover from Fox is done with the idea that Marvel will say it's okay.

Hopefully Disney & MARVEL does the smart thing & just tells Fox to go **** yourselves Wolverine style

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

You know what would be interesting is if Fox approached Disney for approval on an FF/X-Men crossover and Disney said - "Sure - as long you share the rights to Galactus and Silver Surfer."

 

[Donut]

I like the Wolverine style response better

 

[spideyboy_1111]

Some new information regarding the possibility of Marvel licensed character families crossing over from an interview with the producers of The Amazing Spider-Man 2:

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplayl...-tv-shows-20140429?page=3#blogPostHeaderPanel

Arad: I'll tell you seriously… Wolverine. And Beast. There was an episode that was in the comics where Spider-Man became Man-Spider and he needs help. He is mutating. He has to go find Professor Xavier. So he has to go and find these people and it's a fantastic story, how he comes to them to look for help. And the guy who doesn't trust him is Wolverine. He says, "You cover your face, why would I trust you?" But Beast understands the dilemma. That would be a fascinating story and it's still central to Spider-Man. It's all about Spider-Man at the end of the day. Now, for Sony and Fox to make this deal and for Disney to endorse it... We'll probably have peace in the Middle East before that.

If Sony and FOX have unlimited cinematic rights in regards to Marvel licensed characters, why would Disney have to endorse it? If a Spidey/X-Men crossover requires Disney approval under the existing contracts, that would also hold true for an X-Men/FF crossover.

was that story actually in the comics? Or was it just the 90s cartoon?? I know man-spider has popped up a few times.. but just wanted to check that out. It'd be amusing if Avi was confusing the cartoons with the comics

 

[JoeyConQueso]

I think it was just from the show. Thats definitely some Neogenic Nightmare stuff.

 

[jaymes_e06]

was that story actually in the comics? Or was it just the 90s cartoon?? I know man-spider has popped up a few times.. but just wanted to check that out. It'd be amusing if Avi was confusing the cartoons with the comics

I think he misspoke because you could tell he meant the show by saying "episode" but then finished by saying "comics."

 

[bubbadoom]

You know what would be interesting is if Fox approached Disney for approval on an FF/X-Men crossover and Disney said - "Sure - as long you share the rights to Galactus and Silver Surfer."

except Fox does not need Disney's approval for such a cross over - they own the film rights to those properties and can do with them what they like...

 

[Krystal]

except Fox does not need Disney's approval for such a cross over - they own the film rights to those properties and can do with them what they like...

No way does the Marvel/Fox deal allow Fox to LOAN or SHARE the property with a THIRD studio.

They can't "sub-let" the property without permission.

 

[Donut]

except Fox does not need Disney's approval for such a cross over - they own the film rights to those properties and can do with them what they like...

Surely Fox would have shoed horned the Fantastic Four into Days Of Future Past if such things did not need permission & they would just consider that a Fantastic Four movie

 

[Orba]

except Fox does not need Disney's approval for such a cross over - they own the film rights to those properties and can do with them what they like...

Fox can only do what the film rights contract allows them to do, if they could do anything they wanted then they could throw the X-Men and FF into a Alien vs Predator. The X-Men and FF are properties leased to Fox by Marvel under contract, they don't own the film rights (although they can hold onto them indefinitely as long as they keep making films). The Alien and Predator film franchises are owned by Fox, which is why Fox can make crossover films with those two franchise. Unless the film rights specifically allow crossovers between the FF and X-Men then Fox would need the permission of Marvel since it would be outside the bounds of the contract.

 

[Obi-Ron]

Surely Fox would have shoed horned the Fantastic Four into Days Of Future Past if such things did not need permission & they would just consider that a Fantastic Four movie

The obvious route there would be the use of adult Franklin Richards in the future timeline, like in the comics.

 

[Zarex]

except Fox does not need Disney's approval for such a cross over - they own the film rights to those properties and can do with them what they like...

FOX doesn't own anything. The studio has a (quite favorable) licensing agreement, signed way back in 1993, that allows FOX to make movies based on Marvel's X-Men family of characters. FOX is currently holding a second licensing agreement for the FF family of characters. That second agreement was signed a few years later (1996?) with different terms. Reports have stated that Avi Arad was able to negotiate a much more favorable deal with the FF agreement, with Marvel receiving 8-10% of film profits vs 1-2% for the X-Men.

In order for FOX (or Sony) to crossover characters from separate licensing agreements, crossover language would have to have been incorporated into both of the contracts back when they were signed in the 1990s. And since FOX was initially very hesitant regarding making even a stand alone X-Men film, the licensing agreements were signed years apart, and character crossovers weren't even a "thing" until the MCU was launched in 2008, that possibility is extremely unlikely.

And there's been a lot of support for the fact that crossovers can't happen without Marvel's approval. Zak Penn, who wrote for Marvel in Phase 1of the MCU confirmed this in an interview. Mark Millar said crossovers between the FF and X-Men were coming, and then backtracked later that same day. And now we have Avi Arad - who negotiated many of these contracts back when he was with Marvel - confirming that character crossovers require Marvel's blessing. Whether the character families are held by the same or different studios doesn't matter. A separate contract is a separate contract.

I haven't seen the contracts, so I don't know for certain. But it looks like we won't be getting the X-Men/FF crossover that no one has been asking for.

 

[Krystal]

I've not been asking for it as long as I can't remember.

 

[Eddie]

The only example of what you are describing that I can think of is Chris Evans but by the time he agreed to do Cap the Alba FF franchise was long dead.

Personally I think it's weird. It takes me out of the element a little because I like to associate a character with the actor. Thankfully Evans has so grown into his role as the perfect Cap that I don't associate him with Johnny Storm at all anymore. If he was still playing Johnny Storm concurrently I probably would be sitting there thinking he's Cap.

A recent example is the guy that played Laufey in Thor showing up in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. In addition to what EssayM said, other examples that come to mind are Patton Oswalt showing up in Blade: Trinity and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Thomas Kretchsmann having a role in Blade II and playing Baron Strucker, and an example of an actor concurrently holding roles in competing franchises, Idris Elba as Heimdall and some drunk monk dude that was actually a relatively important character in Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.

 

[EssayM]

A recent example is the guy that played Laufey in Thor showing up in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. In addition to what EssayM said, other examples that come to mind are Patton Oswalt showing up in Blade: Trinity and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Thomas Kretchsmann having a role in Blade II and playing Baron Strucker, and an example of an actor concurrently holding roles in competing franchises, Idris Elba as Heimdall and some drunk monk dude that was actually a relatively important character in Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.

Huh, forgot about those. And "competing" is a bit of a stretch: the GR franchise has been dead and returned to Marvel for quite some time now.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

A recent example is the guy that played Laufey in Thor showing up in The Amazing Spider-Man 2. In addition to what EssayM said, other examples that come to mind are Patton Oswalt showing up in Blade: Trinity and Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., Thomas Kretchsmann having a role in Blade II and playing Baron Strucker, and an example of an actor concurrently holding roles in competing franchises, Idris Elba as Heimdall and some drunk monk dude that was actually a relatively important character in Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance.

Huh - Interesting. I guess there are more than a few now that you guys mention it.

I didn't even know Colm Feore was in Amazing Spider-Man 2. After the critics utterly trashed the film, I haven't been in a hurry to see it honestly. However, in fairness, Laufey died so it's not a concurrent role. I have to agree with EssayM's point about GR. Blade too has been dead as a franchise for years and is also now at Marvel Studios.