Game of Thrones - HBO part 2 - Part 5

[Matt]

Renly was better at uniting people but not ruling them. He has all of Robert's flaws, he's too trusting and accepting of people. Had he ruled, he would have had people plotting his downfall just like Robert. TV and Book Renly are different, book Renly was much more arrogant. He also never agreed with Cat to an alliance with Robb, he thought he could take King's Landing on his own and implied he would wage war on the North if Robb didn't bend the knee to him.

There is no perfect candidate for king. Stannis would survive longer because he wouldn't put his trust in people who don't deserve it. One of the things Stannis says in the books is that Robert should have scoured his court clean when he took the throne, namely getting rid of Varys and Pycelle. Stannis is the epitome of Lawful Neutral. He may be harsh but he is always just. He's also the only king [BLACKOUT]who knows his title includes "Protector of the Realm."[/BLACKOUT]


The Targaryens were defeated and exiled from Westeros, so Stannis is the rightful king.

So if Renly killed Stannis (or even just exiled him) before he was assassinated in an act of fratricide, then Renly would be the rightful king in your eyes?

As for your assessment of Renly, it seems like a whole lot relies on the book. I agree, based on AGOT and the half of ACOK that I read, Renly would make a weak king, but I see the two as different mediums. In terms of what we saw on the show, Renly had very few of his book counterparts negative character traits (which I'd even argue you are exaggerating just a bit, Renly clearly knew how to play the game better than Robert). TV Renly would definitely make the superior king to TV Stannis, IMO.

He has a legitimate claim, and Joffrey isn't Robert's son. His brother tried to usurp his throne. Going by Medieval rules, he's really done nothing wrong.

Robert named Joffrey his heir on his deathbed. So Joffrey did not inheirit the throne simply by terms of being Robert's next of kin, but also by Robert's decree. Does it really matter if he is not of his blood? It was Robert's order for Joffrey to take his throne. I'd argue that if we're going strictly by terms of Robert's heir, Joffrey has the most valid claim, not Stannis.

 

[dru-zod2501]

And with that Dani got cool again. She was so annoying this season but the finale redeemed her. It was so good to see Khal again and loved her dragons breathing fire and freeing her She wlaked into the castle like a boss and took charge. Loved it

Baby fire geckos are cute & whatnot, but IMHO one episode doesn't balance the character's seemingly unending stagnation. If I was judging her solely on her attitude she'd probably be among my favorites, but all that energy is still wielded aimlessly and clumsily.

If anything I've been getting more concerned about her future based on her attitudes this season. The Iron Throne is being contested among heretics, despots, narcissists & psychopaths. At first I thought Dany could become a decent option because she's so far removed from the corruption in King's Landing, but in the last half of the season, now I see her as just that little girl with a chip on her shoulder trying to prove she's less immature & naïve than she really is. If she ever gets around to reclaiming Westeros it'll be for herself, not for her "people." What little hope I might've had for her is dimmed low this season.

Or maybe I'm the naïve one for having faith that there can be such a thing as a "good" king in their world where nice guys don't just finish last, they finish dead.

 

[Thundercrack85]

So if Renly killed Stannis (or even just exiled him) before he was assassinated in an act of fratricide, then Renly would be the rightful king in your eyes?

As for your assessment of Renly, it seems like a whole lot relies on the book. I agree, based on AGOT and the half of ACOK that I read, Renly would make a weak king, but I see the two as different mediums. In terms of what we saw on the show, Renly had very few of his book counterparts negative character traits (which I'd even argue you are exaggerating just a bit, Renly clearly knew how to play the game better than Robert). TV Renly would definitely make the superior king to TV Stannis, IMO.



Robert named Joffrey his heir on his deathbed. So Joffrey did not inheirit the throne simply by terms of being Robert's next of kin, but also by Robert's decree. Does it really matter if he is not of his blood? It was Robert's order for Joffrey to take his throne. I'd argue that if we're going strictly by terms of Robert's heir, Joffrey has the most valid claim, not Stannis.

Yes. Since he's not a Baratheon. You can't just name someone your heir. It's difficult to claim an illegitimate child as your rightful heir. Someone completely unrelated who is a product of incest? Impossible.

Joffrey knows this, that's why he had all of Robert's suspected bastards killed.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Baby fire geckos are cute & whatnot, but IMHO one episode doesn't balance the character's seemingly unending stagnation. If I was judging her solely on her attitude she'd probably be among my favorites, but all that energy is still wielded aimlessly and clumsily.

If anything I've been getting more concerned about her future based on her attitudes this season. The Iron Throne is being contested among heretics, despots, narcissists & psychopaths. At first I thought Dany could become a decent option because she's so far removed from the corruption in King's Landing, but in the last half of the season, now I see her as just that little girl with a chip on her shoulder trying to prove she's less immature & naïve than she really is. If she ever gets around to reclaiming Westeros it'll be for herself, not for her "people." What little hope I might've had for her is dimmed low this season.

Or maybe I'm the naïve one for having faith that there can be such a thing as a "good" king in their world where nice guys don't just finish last, they finish dead.

Most real-life monarchs came to power because they were the most cunning despots. Then they started claiming divine right to have some kind of moral legitimacy (didn't always work, look at what happened to the Tsar). The idea of kings being noble, is a relatively new, Romantic concept. Most kings were no different from say a contemporary dictator like Kim Jong-il (well, he's dead now, but best example off the top of my head).

There really is no such thing as a good king, since it's like saying "he's a caring despot". Though some are less vicious than others.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

I recall Stark was the one who broke through and was going to sit on the chair first, but he gave it up to Robert for the cause

Is it true that Robert wasn't always fat and actually was a great warrior too before he became King?

And how does Robert's only living bastard Gentry figure into the throne, since he is actually Robert's son and escaped murder?

 

[omid17]

love the scenes with Jamie and Brienne hope to see them together next season

and did they really have to show Tywins horse taking a dookie! lol

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Eddard Stark would have been a honorable king, who also would have commanded his people's respect.

I recall Stark was the one who broke through and was going to sit on the chair first, but he gave it up to Robert for the cause

As we know, Ned doesn't have the political savvy to survive in King's Landing.

He arrived at the throne room first after Tywin sacked the city, but he never wanted the Iron Throne. He only claimed it for Robert because he had the stronger claim as his grandmother was a Targaryen (and the Baratheons were originally founded by Aegon the Conqueror's half-brother).

Targareyans commanded respect...The path of Stannis looks alot like the Mad King.

If anyone is like the Mad King, it's Daenerys. Stannis is harsh but always just.

So if Renly killed Stannis (or even just exiled him) before he was assassinated in an act of fratricide, then Renly would be the rightful king in your eyes?

If Renly killed Stannis, he would be guilty of murder and treason and should be executed for it. He didn't have the authority to exile Stannis before taking the Throne.

As for your assessment of Renly, it seems like a whole lot relies on the book. I agree, based on AGOT and the half of ACOK that I read, Renly would make a weak king, but I see the two as different mediums. In terms of what we saw on the show, Renly had very few of his book counterparts negative character traits (which I'd even argue you are exaggerating just a bit, Renly clearly knew how to play the game better than Robert). TV Renly would definitely make the superior king to TV Stannis, IMO.

The way I see it, TV Renly is still book Renly, just puts on more of a facade. Renly thought he knew how to play the game. He thought all he needed was the larger army which is why he buddied up with the Tyrells.

 

[omid17]

no wonder Stannis wasn't too happy with the Tyrells i forgot he took off after Renlys death

 

[Spidey-Bat]

The Tyrells fought against the Baratheons in Robert's Rebellion. They were the ones who sieged Storm's End for over a year whilst Stannis held it. So he has no love for them at all and seeing his own brother ally with them angered him even more.

 

[omid17]

 

[Colossal Spoons]

...and did they really have to show Tywins horse taking a dookie! lol

I thought they could have cut that out as well haha

 

[Poeman]

Its a pun to how a lannister s hits gold I think

 

[omid17]

that Lannister gaurd cracked me up when they were talking about Loras

"Loras Tyrell? He's prettier than the queen" lol

 

[Poeman]

Is it true that Robert wasn't always fat and actually was a great warrior too before he became King?

And how does Robert's only living bastard Gentry figure into the throne, since he is actually Robert's son and escaped murder?

Oh yeah...A perfect comparison is Robert was a legend of battle...He was essentially Thor. He had a hammer he swung and blasted peoples skulls

 

[omid17]

that's pretty bad ass, shame how he ended up getting hurt goin huntin

 

[Speedball]

I do want to see Dany return to Westeros and reclaim the throne for the Targaryens though.
Out of all the people left vying for the crown, she is the one who would not send Westeros into a dark age.
She doesn't have a rightful claim to the throne, but that really doesn't matter. In Chronicles of Riddick there's a saying throughout the whole thing: "You keep what you kill.", and that is certainly true in the GoT universe.

It is interesting to see that she can be ruthless already. You don't see it until third book, but her locking Xaro and Doreah in the vault brought it out in her early, and we'll be seeing more of it. Dany's story in the third book definitely picks up, so it's something to look forward to.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

that's pretty bad ass, shame how he ended up getting hurt goin huntin

It's because after he became King he didn't care about Westeros, he only cared about getting drunk and banging ****es.

 

[Speedball]

It's because after he became King he didn't care about Westeros, he only cared about getting drunk and banging ****es.

It's true. His small council ruled Westeros. How do you think he could take 2 months to go visit Winterfell?

 

[omid17]

I do want to see Dany return to Westeros and reclaim the throne for the Targaryens though.
Out of all the people left vying for the crown, she is the one who would not send Westeros into a dark age.
She doesn't have a rightful claim to the throne, but that really doesn't matter. In Chronicles of Riddick there's a saying throughout the whole thing: "You keep what you kill.", and that is certainly true in the GoT universe.

It is interesting to see that she can be ruthless already. You don't see it until third book, but her locking Xaro and Doreah in the vault brought it out in her early, and we'll be seeing more of it. Dany's story in the third book definitely picks up, so it's something to look forward to.

It's because after he became King he didn't care about Westeros, he only cared about getting drunk and banging ****es.

It's true. His small council ruled Westeros. How do you think he could take 2 months to go visit Winterfell?

soo true

 

[omid17]

Sansa's story doesm't seem to be going anywhere

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Sansa's story doesm't seem to be going anywhere

It will now that Littlefinger is back in King's Landing.

 

[Speedball]

Sansa's story doesm't seem to be going anywhere

Is it cool if I allude to things?

It gets more interesting for her. Now that Joffrey isn't going to marry her, her life is more threatened than ever. Her political importance to people wanes, which puts her in a very dangerous situation in King's Landing.

She's no longer the future Queen, but a hostage that can be bartered. But there are people in King's Landing that want to protect her, not because she's a Stark, but because they feel sorry for her.

 

[omid17]

It will now that Littlefinger is back in King's Landing.

Is it cool if I allude to things?

It gets more interesting for her. Now that Joffrey isn't going to marry her, her life is more threatened than ever. Her political importance to people wanes, which puts her in a very dangerous situation in King's Landing.

She's no longer the future Queen, but a hostage that can be bartered. But there are people in King's Landing that want to protect her, not because she's a Stark, but because they feel sorry for her.

nice pretty much a repeat of this season lol

so why didn't Arya go to Bravos? i mean is the "hit-list" for real or what

 

[mr. peasant]

He has a legitimate claim, and Joffrey isn't Robert's son. His brother tried to usurp his throne. Going by Medieval rules, he's really done nothing wrong.

Except, well... kin slaying.

nice pretty much a repeat of this season lol

Well, there's probably more urgency for her to escape now where as before, it was smarter for her to stay put. Her brother had Jaime and she was to be the future Queen. Meaning, that despite the abuse she received, she was relatively safe (at least, until she flowered). Attempting to escape would have forfeited any protection she had.

so why didn't Arya go to Bravos? i mean is the "hit-list" for real or what

Well, Bravos is quite some distance away and there is a major war going on. Plus, not many people from Bravos roaming around Westeros.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Except, well... kin slaying.

If your younger brother tries to usurp your birthright you're allowed to (and expected to) kill him. The only thing odd is that Stannis didn't kill every Stormland lord who betrayed him by supporting his younger brother's claim. He even says this. Maybe he'll do it when he's king.