Gotham Gotham Season 1, Episode 5 "Viper" General Discussion

[terry78]

Is the forum not refreshing?

 

[BestGirl]

This show just reads so silly to me sometimes. I couldn't take that old guy scene seriously.

That made me smile because he seemed so excited to snort venom. He must've waited for years to do something so fun.

 

[terry78]

Now theres a Batman.

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

That made me smile because he seemed so excited to snort venom. He must've waited for years to do something so fun.

 

[terry78]

Hmmm.

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

how the episode? teaser Venom? any new development?

 

[regnak]

I haven't seen the whole season and missed part of this ep. Did the scene between the old man and the woman who looked like his mother mean anything?

 

[Kane52630]

Pretty good episode all things considering... I like how they introduced venom. Totally did not expect that at all.

 

[Spider-Fan83]

did anyone else catch that brief shot of the tv Bruce was watching?
it seemed he was watching zorro or something, it was quick but, I definitely saw a man in a black cape

 

[Kane52630]

It was totally Zorro or something extremely similar. That I really enjoyed... although it would be really awesome if it was The Grey Ghost.

 

[Sithborg]

Pretty good episode all things considering... I like how they introduced venom. Totally did not expect that at all.

And not just some realistic take on Venom, but full blown comic like Venom. I am really excited about what this means for the series.

 

[Human Torch]

Much better than last week.A bit more "tongue in cheek" with the villain again.Penguin's thing was cool (if ultimately redundant) and whoa!Did he make it an entire episode without killing somebody!?!

Fish and Falcone is still a big snooze,but at least it seems relegated to the back burner.The Barbara/Montoya subplot was also thankfully absent.

The Bruce scenes were pretty cool as usual.I wonder if he's putting a bullseye on his young head by asking so many questions?Might he be learning he'll need a "mask" soon to get to the truth of things?t:

 

[Kane52630]

And not just some realistic take on Venom, but full blown comic like Venom. I am really excited about what this means for the series.

Same here, I'm glad a live action show is embracing the comic elements instead of shying away from it. If anything people can take away from this show, it's that.

 

[godisawesome]

This show's at its best when it's an odd blend of the Arkham games and the early BTAS episodes. So much dark humor and noirish sequences does this show good. And this episode moved a lot of plots forward: Cobblepott joining Maroni on a semi-sincere basis was good, and I loved the Godfather interrogation sequence, Bruce now has a mission to define his subplot for this part of the show, and Mooney's plans were more clearly laid out and moved forward, and I'd argue that having JPS display her more subtle acting skills expanded her character quite a bit.

Bullock quote of the week: "What's altruism!?!?"

 

[godisawesome]

This show's at its best when it's an odd blend of the Arkham games and the early BTAS episodes. So much dark humor and noirish sequences does this show good. And this episode moved a lot of plots forward: Cobblepott joining Maroni on a semi-sincere basis was good, and I loved the Godfather interrogation sequence, Bruce now has a mission to define his subplot for this part of the show, and Mooney's plans were more clearly laid out and moved forward, and I'd argue that having JPS display her more subtle acting skills expanded her character quite a bit.

Bullock quote of the week: "What's altruism!?!?"

 

[boocherhix]

Haha yeah that line from Bullock was hilarious. Donal Logue, man.

I also busted up laughing when they showed the quick clip of the ATM guy running at the end of the beginning sequence. Not what it was intended to elicit, but it was great, haha.

I honestly didnt even think of the venom connection until the old guy said it & I was pleasantly surprised.

 

[CFE]

The thing I don't understand with people's complaints (not necessarily Hypsters, just people in general) about the tone of the show is that they're concerned with the show having one tone.

But since when has life ever been one tone?

Life shifts between serious melodrama and comedic levity at a whim all the time. You don't go through your entire day brooding or laughing. Generally, it's a mixture of both that fluctuates from day to day depending on certain elements and how they're impacting you.

So I don't really understand objections to the tone shifting.

Couldn't you say that about all fiction really?

I mean show me a drama that is completely devoid of comedic injection or vice versa.

That complaint, to me and over the course of these weeks since the show's premiere, really just reads more like people looking for a reason to poke and prod at the show.

 

[boocherhix]

Yeah I actually like the tone shifts. It works for me.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I kinda have a love / hate relationship with this show. I love how unique the atmosphere is, the whole pulp noir feel, and the comic book references and allusions. Fantastic stuff. I also think the casting is spectacular, everyone looks great and the actors seem (for the most part) to have the chops. The only problem is that they are not really being given much to work with. I know it is still the early stages of the show but at this point I feel like I'm watching because its enjoyable popcorn entertainment more than because it has a good story or writing. Not that there is anything wrong with that, I suppose.

 

[DigificWriter]

My review (cross-posted):
Not counting the Pilot, all of the series' episodes so far have been primarily focused on 'origin stories' for certain characters (both villainous and otherwise, but particularly the villainous ones), and while there's nothing wrong with doing that, it's not the only foundational building block of the series' overall narrative framework, and so it was nice to see this episode focus on another one of said foundational building blocks, that being exploring why a city like Gotham would need somebody like Bruce Wayne to become Batman... using, of all people, Bruce himself as a central driving force.

I loved David Masouz's role in this episode. He really is a phenomenal actor, and his obsession with linking the corruption and criminal decadence of the city to his parents' murder and their role as philanthropists was really well-done and tied very nicely into the 'B' plot involving the drug Viper/Venom. Indirectly tying the drug to Wayne Enterprises was a brilliant creative move that gives Bruce a truly personal stake in things.

I'm really enjoying the way that the producers are using the 'case of the week' Noir formula to drive a wider, more serialized narrative, especially when it comes to exploring the storylines going on with Falcone, Fish, Maroni, and Cobblepot. Jada Pinkett-Smith continues to be a highlight of the series for me, and I liked that we finally got some answers as to why she was 'grooming' Liza. The scene at the end of the episode with her and Falcone helped turn him from just another crime lord into a more fully characterized human being, although I do want to know what Fish's ultimate game-plan is.

Maroni's 'interview' with Jim was a nice way to further entangle him in the undertow that is the Gotham mob scene, and it's going to be interesting to see what happens next now that he's directly tied to both Maroni and Oswald. Speaking of, I really liked his involvement in the story. Telling Maroni who he was seemed like it might be a fool's gamble, but, in the end, he managed to make it all work out, which is more than likely going to end up paying creative dividends down the road... and as a fan of the character of Penguin in general and Robin Taylor Lord's particular version of him, that is entirely for the good.

The reviewer over at IGN made an interesting point about Wayne Enterprises possibly being connected to the "Dollmaker" who was referenced in "Selina Kyle" (the New 52/Arrow Dollmaker's surname is Mathis, the same as the Wayne Enterprises employee Bruce met at the charity event and who was later seen watching Gordon and Harvey), and while I'm not sure that the producers would opt to change up such a significant character, it would be a really interesting twist on one of their stated goals for the series to take a character like the Dollmaker and 'gender-flip' them.

Even if this Miss Mathis doesn't turn out to be the series' version of the Dollmaker, she's clearly got some major role to play, and I wouldn't be surprised at all to see her pop up again in the future.

Gotham continues to get better and better, and I really can't wait to see what other developments the PtBs have in store for the characters and what they have planned as far as advancing the series' 3 primary narrative cornerstones is concerned.

 

[Just_Human]

did anyone else catch that brief shot of the tv Bruce was watching?
it seemed he was watching zorro or something, it was quick but, I definitely saw a man in a black cape

Yes I did

The other dude was Zorro imo


And lol Falcone

It's nice to see Alfred finally helping Bruce on his detective work

 

[antsman41]

The thing I don't understand with people's complaints (not necessarily Hypsters, just people in general) about the tone of the show is that they're concerned with the show having one tone.

But since when has life ever been one tone?

Life shifts between serious melodrama and comedic levity at a whim all the time. You don't go through your entire day brooding or laughing. Generally, it's a mixture of both that fluctuates from day to day depending on certain elements and how they're impacting you.

So I don't really understand objections to the tone shifting.

Couldn't you say that about all fiction really?

I mean show me a drama that is completely devoid of comedic injection or vice versa.

That complaint, to me and over the course of these weeks since the show's premiere, really just reads more like people looking for a reason to poke and prod at the show.

Because comedy in Fargo/Breaking Bad/True Detective... worked and didn't take us out of the drama, sincere honest storytelling. The comedy in Gotham is slap stick, while being in the middle of gritty dark drivel. It doesn't balance or complement each other at all in this show.

 

[L.A.]

What the hell happen at the end with Falcone and that girl? That was so random. This was actually the best episode so far for me but I do find it annoying they keep saying Don?! Enough already!

 

[Arrowshieldfan]

Maroni doesn't seem to be as bad as Fish or Falcone.......and that lady that Bruce is talking with she not a good woman Manthis? I think since she knows about viper and got rid of everything before Gordon could find it......I

 

[Frodo]

Eh, like the last four episodes it had highs and lows. Maroni, Bruce and Alfred, the origins of venom, were the highs. The lows were the Smallville like plot and freaks of the week, the Fish subplot, and some of the dialog. So, for me it was a mixed bag as usual.

As for the tone, I guess I'm kinda resigned to the idea that these first episodes seem alot more Burton/Schumacer influenced than the Timm/Nolan. Then again, they're all valid interpretations of Batman so its really a matter of taste.

Again, had some decent elements but there's still room for improvement.