The Dark Knight Rises In hindsight what changes would you do - Part 1

[Snow Queen]

I actually read that interview a long time ago. In fact, I'm sure it's floating around the boards here somewhere. But I do remember Goyer being quoted saying that "the Joker would be on trial" and "Batman being hunted down by the GCPD".

I'm also in the camp thinking that TDKR was plan B.

He also said this trial would involve Joker spraying acid on Two Face's face and the third film would be Joker and Batman hunting Two Face. This was after Begins but before work was underway for The Dark Knight, obviously.

 

[RAINMAKER]

He also said this trial would involve Joker spraying acid on Two Face's face and the third film would be Joker and Batman hunting Two Face. This was after Begins but before work was underway for The Dark Knight, obviously.

Yep. Who knows, maybe I read this when TDK was coming out but the interview was during the time of BB?

 

[BatLobster]

Yep. Who knows, maybe I read this when TDK was coming out but the interview was during the time of BB?

Yeah. I know that interview, it's from the May 2005 issue of Premiere Magazine. And he never said anything about Batman being hunted by the GCPD in that interview. All he said was:

"The next one would have Batman enlisting the aid of Gordon and Dent in bringing down The Joker...but not killing him, which is a mistake they made in the first one," Batwriter David Goyer tells the latest issue of U.S. movie magazine PREMIERE. "In the third, the Joker would go on trial, scarring Dent in the process."

We're talking about something Goyer would have said after TDK came out and it was already clear that the original idea to have Dent on trial in the third film was scrapped. That's a result of the story decisions they made for TDK, not Heath Ledger's death. I'm remaining adamant in my belief that Goyer never said anything about Batman being hunted by the GCPD in the third film. The only things Goyer said about Batman 3 after TDK's release that I'm aware of was, "I have a villain and a theme, but I'm not going to tell you." And also that the villains they had in mind might not be famous ones from the TV show. That is it. I will happily eat crow if someone can prove me wrong on this.

 

[RAINMAKER]

We're talking about something Goyer would have said after TDK came out and it was already clear that the original idea to have Dent on trial in the third film was scrapped. That's a result of the story decisions they made for TDK, not Heath Ledger's death. I'm remaining adamant in my belief that Goyer never said anything about Batman being hunted by the GCPD in the third film. The only things Goyer said about Batman 3 after TDK's release that I'm aware of was, "I have a villain and a theme, but I'm not going to tell you." And also that the villains they had in mind might not be famous ones from the TV show. That is it. I will happily eat crow if someone can prove me wrong on this.

I remember him saying this as well.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Instead of numerous posters talking about the idea that Batman would be hunted down by the GCPD, can someone show us something that states such because right now it's just some rumor that I'm tired of hearing about, lol. Quite frankly, the only idea of a threequel I've ever heard was mentioned before TDK even started production. Nothing about the third film after TDK except that Nolan wrote down an outline after TDK was released.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I have no doubt that TDKR would've been a different film had Heath Ledger lived, but I'm not so sure they ever really had a definite plan for the third film once TDK consolidated what were the ideas for "Batman Begins 2 and 3". My argument is more trying to say- how could there even be a plan B if there wasn't really a plan A?

And I bet no one will be able to answer this question.

 

[Anno_Domini]

So I have two questions about TDKR, just to bring in new blood in this thread, lol.

Why did they edit the scene around so that Bruce goes to Fox right before the stock exchange rather than during the same day where he goes to the doctor? It seems odd that they made that change when it wasn't really necessary.

And is there any way that Gordon would have kept his job in TDKR as Commissioner even after the Dent lie was revealed?

Just a couple things I've been thinking about as of late...also thinking about even watching TDKR again pretty soon, or do a marathon again

 

[BatLobster]

So I have two questions about TDKR, just to bring in new blood in this thread, lol.

Why did they edit the scene around so that Bruce goes to Fox right before the stock exchange rather than during the same day where he goes to the doctor? It seems odd that they made that change when it wasn't really necessary.

And is there any way that Gordon would have kept his job in TDKR as Commissioner even after the Dent lie was revealed?

Just a couple things I've been thinking about as of late...also thinking about even watching TDKR again pretty soon, or do a marathon again

As for the first one...my best guess is a momentum thing. Originally I think Bruce was supposed to be more adamant about turning Fox down by saying he's retired. Remember the TV spot where he's like "I told ya..." and Fox goes "You're retired...". Cut from the movie.

In the movie it plays out in such a way that once Bruce sees Fox, he's already much closer to becoming Batman again (having already met with Gordon) so he gets that sparkle in his eye when he sees The Bat and we can assume that Fox has pretty much roped him back in at that point. I think the overall intended effect of reversing the scenes is to make you more pumped up for him to become Batman again, and the score really reflects that.

As for the second, I would say that given Gordon's role in leading the resistance and helping prevent the bomb from detonating, a Presidential pardon wouldn't be out of the question, which could clear the air legally speaking for him. And given that Gotham is able to forgive Batman's role in the coverup, it seems only fair that they grant Gordon the same honor when he proves that he's still a hero in his own right.

 

[batfreakforever]

From what info/deeper insight from posters like ''Gotham's knight'' showed me how easy it is dissmiss scenes & think why the f did they put that in the film. I try & think of other similar scenes in BB & TDK that might help or give better understanding to scenes in TDKR. This movie was really thought out. This really is the last connecting part to the trilogy/Bruce's story. I really could'nt see fans coming up with a ''better'' story for part 3. This is if you still had Bruce win his battle/war. It really is a battle with himself. Bruce has to realise that yeah he lost battles- loved ones,his Fathers company, his money,body,reputation,energy project etc but he can still win HIS war,he can still make a difference. It was'nt all for nothing & that he does'nt have to live as a BatMAN or a shell of a man for the rest of his life but as MAN, a happy,loved,life enjoying man.

 

[Anno_Domini]

As for the first one...my best guess is a momentum thing. Originally I think Bruce was supposed to be more adamant about turning Fox down by saying he's retired. Remember the TV spot where he's like "I told ya..." and Fox goes "You're retired...". Cut from the movie.

In the movie it plays out in such a way that once Bruce sees Fox, he's already much closer to becoming Batman again (having already met with Gordon) so he gets that sparkle in his eye when he sees The Bat and we can assume that Fox has pretty much roped him back in at that point. I think the overall intended effect of reversing the scenes is to make you more pumped up for him to become Batman again, and the score really reflects that.

True. In the long run, it does make some sense as it builds up Bruce finally becoming Batman, leaving a tease of The Bat until finally showing it during Batman's return, but it just seemed odd that Bruce was ready to return, but still told Fox that he was retired. Either they should have redone that scene, or Bruce was just trying to push Fox into showing him the goodies in Applied Sciences.

As for the second, I would say that given Gordon's role in leading the resistance and helping prevent the bomb from detonating, a Presidential pardon wouldn't be out of the question, which could clear the air legally speaking for him. And given that Gotham is able to forgive Batman's role in the coverup, it seems only fair that they grant Gordon the same honor when he proves that he's still a hero in his own right.

Gordon getting a pardon should have been shown. I mean, you could sense that Gotham forgave Gordon since they forgave Batman and even built a statue, but nothing is really given really as to why Gordon is still the Commissioner besides hints and foreshadow. TDKR is a film that carries a lot of progress through subtle moments, but sometimes it feels like Nolan should've had more than just subtle moments.

 

[JackWhite]

This is why Nolan doing a director's commentary for TDKR would be so much win. I really would love to hear why they changed up the order of Bruce meeting Fox and then Gordon. Even though I absolutely love the way it all plays out on film, it would be cool to hear what made Nolan and co. decide to change it.

 

[BatLobster]

If I had to bet, I would say we're getting commentaries on the collector's editions set. This isn't based on any inside knowledge, just a gut feeling.

I mean, he's talked at length about his films before so it's not like he's really against talking about them.

I'd be through the moon if Jonah did the commentary tracks with him. God love the guy, but he can be a bit monotone and dry. Having someone with a bit more pep to bounce off of would make it a lot more listenable I feel, lol. Plus we'd probably get some added insight that way and maybe even a few gentlemanly disagreements about certain things.

 

[JackWhite]

Jonah is the unsung hero of this trilogy, at least when it comes to the behind the scenes/writing stuff. I too, adore him. It's funny because I'm currently listening to this interview again as I type this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tol_mILw6w&list=PL982155E308FB357C

 

[BatLobster]

Yeah just re-reading my post that came out a bit jumbled. To be clear, I meant Chris was the dry and monotone one, not Jonah haha. And yeah, that's a great interview. A pity he didn't get to do one for TDKR, probably too busy with Person of Interest.

 

[JackWhite]

Haha, I got what you meant. But yeah, I can't wait until more interviews like that surface or are conducted for TDKR in the next few years.

And to stay on topic, I just noticed how when the bat lights up in the alley, the front lights resemble Batman's comic white eyes:



It's a nitpick, but it would be nice if that shot was held for about 1-2 seconds longer. But I guess that's what makes that shot cool, is that you pick up on it with multiple viewings. For a guy who has so many "issues" with TDKR, I do seem to enjoy re-watching the film quite a bit, lol.

 

[Snow Queen]

If Jonah alone did a commentary (he doesn't seem against them, he did them for POI's pilot and unaired pilot and they were great), I'd be satisfied. I'd love to have Nolan do one too but, from what I've heard, Jonah is the bigger Batman fan of the two and I think it'd be great fun to hear him discuss it. POI has a break (CURSE YOU, SHOWS FOR GOING ON HIATUS DURING THE SUMMER) coming up so maybe he could fit it in.

 

[JackWhite]

I think Jonah is the more knowledgeable Bat-fan out of the two. Chris really had a wealth of Batman knowledge at his finger tips between Goyer and Jonah.

 

[Anno_Domini]

This is why Nolan doing a director's commentary for TDKR would be so much win. I really would love to hear why they changed up the order of Bruce meeting Fox and then Gordon. Even though I absolutely love the way it all plays out on film, it would be cool to hear what made Nolan and co. decide to change it.

I am certainly hoping for a director's commentary. Nolan explaining why he doesn't focus much on Gordon but pretty much answers certain things through certain subtle moments and occasions would really give it more sense.

If there is commentary, I can't wait until the very end of TDKR to see what Nolan has to say about the final shot of the trilogy. I'm sure it'll be outstanding to hear his thoughts on the mantle being passed down to Robin John Blake, and maybe he even gives his thoughts on what he'd picture Blake doing next.

And to stay on topic, I just noticed how when the bat lights up in the alley, the front lights resemble Batman's comic white eyes:



It's a nitpick, but it would be nice if that shot was held for about 1-2 seconds longer. But I guess that's what makes that shot cool, is that you pick up on it with multiple viewings. For a guy who has so many "issues" with TDKR, I do seem to enjoy re-watching the film quite a bit, lol.

Those eyes are the first things I really noticed, so I don't really agree with an additional 1 or 2 seconds on that because I love what we got. It feels so dang "comic-booky" with that one shot. Love it.

I think Jonah is the more knowledgeable Bat-fan out of the two. Chris really had a wealth of Batman knowledge at his finger tips between Goyer and Jonah.

Oh, I definitely agree on that. While Nolan focused on this man trying to do something good, it always felt like Jonah and Goyer brought in the more comic book knowledge into the films, which just made this trifecta even more amazing. Still, at the end of the day, Chris was sitting in the director's chair and he ends up getting the most praise because of what he was able to do with one of the biggest superheroes. I just hope Zack Snyder gets most of the praise for Man of Steel as he's the director, not Christopher Nolan.

If they indeed work on a strong DC cinematic universe and if they're serious with it, I'd love for Jonah to work on it. That is if Person of Interest doesn't take all of his time(such an incredible series by the way).

 

[Snow Queen]

I think Jonah is the more knowledgeable Bat-fan out of the two. Chris really had a wealth of Batman knowledge at his finger tips between Goyer and Jonah.

That's what I should have had and I agree. They all seem like fans of the character though, otherwise why do it?

 

[JackWhite]

If Superman had a trilogy as definitive and flat out awesome as Batman in TDK-Trilogy I would be so damn happy. But DC is too enamored with Marvel's success at pulling off the expanded universe.

Maybe it's just the film-fan in me but:

Grandiose stand alone trilogies > Expanded universe any day of the week.

 

[Anno_Domini]

If Superman had a trilogy as definitive and flat out awesome as Batman in TDK-Trilogy I would be so damn happy. But DC is too enamored with Marvel's success at pulling off the expanded universe.

Maybe it's just the film-fan in me but:

Grandiose stand alone trilogies > Expanded universe any day of the week.

I wouldn't agree if Iron Man 2 and The Incredible Hulk turned out to be really great films. Since they weren't, I would agree any day that stand alone trilogies are the best way to go.

I always wanted stand alone trilogies for Batman and Superman, but then do a World's Finest with the same guys who played as Batman and Superman just for memorable and iconic reasons with zero continuity to the past trilogies and just build something from that. That is now unlikely with TDK trilogy being its own self and Man of Steel supposedly being part of a cinematic universe now. And boy...do I have some bad feelings about a DCCU.

 

[BatLobster]

Grandiose stand alone trilogies > Expanded universe any day of the week.

I couldn't agree more.

The one thing with the expanded universe is...how's it all going to end?

 

[Brain Damage]

The one thing with the expanded universe is...how's it all going to end?

The Punisher Kill The Marvel Universe?!

 

[georgec]

The only thing from TDKR that I felt was a bit underdeveloped or even unnecessary was the clean slate program. It never seemed as important as suggested.

 

[Anno_Domini]

The Punisher Kill The Marvel Universe?!

The only thing from TDKR that I felt was a bit underdeveloped or even unnecessary was the clean slate program. It never seemed as important as suggested.

I have a hunch both Selina and Bruce used the clean slate program when they left Gotham City.