BvS New Positivity Thread (READ THE FIRST POST!)

[craigaat]

That video is great. He's right on the money.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Loved it. 9/10.

Wow.

 

[Jaxon]

I've seen people write similar things elsewhere, and I agree, but I feel like a lot of people seem to have missed an essential point: the name "Martha" didn't make Batman realize that Superman was "a good guy because he had a mother with the same name," but slowed Batman down enough to realize that the Batman-Superman conflict had been entirely orchestrated by Luthor.

Yes, Bruce was clearly angry at the end of the Zod-Superman fight--and understandably so. But Luthor manipulated him and stoked that anger until it consumed him entirely. So when he was able to take a step back, see that Luthor had manipulated him for almost 2 full years since those events, and rethink Superman's character outside of what Lex had done to manipulate him--at that moment, he was able to realize that Superman was not the enemy.

The name "Martha" was the catalyst. Not the entire cause of his reversal of opinion toward Superman.

That, to me, was both really powerful and plausible, and I applaud the story for that level of sophistication.

I felt that was pretty obvious when I watched it, but it's too subtle for the GA and even those youtubing movie critics.

 

[craigaat]

I wouldn't consider myself part of the general audience, but I must admit, I'd never realised that they were both named Martha.

 

[Filmfan93]

3 viewings already and loved it! Now waiting for the R-rated blu-ray cut

 

[Consona]

I've seen people write similar things elsewhere, and I agree, but I feel like a lot of people seem to have missed an essential point: the name "Martha" didn't make Batman realize that Superman was "a good guy because he had a mother with the same name," but slowed Batman down enough to realize that the Batman-Superman conflict had been entirely orchestrated by Luthor.

Yes, Bruce was clearly angry at the end of the Zod-Superman fight--and understandably so. But Luthor manipulated him and stoked that anger until it consumed him entirely. So when he was able to take a step back, see that Luthor had manipulated him for almost 2 full years since those events, and rethink Superman's character outside of what Lex had done to manipulate him--at that moment, he was able to realize that Superman was not the enemy.

The name "Martha" was the catalyst. Not the entire cause of his reversal of opinion toward Superman.

That, to me, was both really powerful and plausible, and I applaud the story for that level of sophistication.

Yea, confusing wording on my side, sorry. "Martha" just stopped Batman and let him listen to Superman.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Yes, "Martha" haunted Batman in his nightmares, and when Superman mentioned that name, he came to his senses and listened to Clark. But Martha was also meaningful to him, hence he says: Martha won't die TONIGHT. Unlike THAT night. Really great moment.

 

[Consona]

Yea, let me rephrase my statement:


The name "Martha" was not the reason Batman changed his mind.

The name was so deep in Bruce's subconscious, that it made him stop when he heard it.

(Hence the question: "Why did you say that name?!" Batman is unusually sensitive to that name. Like every person is about the object of his fears/obsessions, etc.)

And that let him hear Superman begging for help and explaining the situation and he sees Lois, this human girl, running towards Superman and Batman realizes that Superman is actually just a guy with a mother too, who's been tricked and has this human girl who cares about him and mother that needs help right now, which is something sooo deep inside his psyche, etc...

 

[AnneFan]

It made Batman see Superman as a human and not a threat to destroy.

 

[Jumpman]

29% now, eh?

Let's aim for 28%..because that will just be further 'proof' the film is dire and needs to be erased from history.

Grace Randolph had a fascinating YouTube discussion about what's going on behind the scenes. Worth checking out. My biggest takeaway, Poni_Boy's agenda makes even more sense after watching the video.

I suggest everyone seek out that 18 minute video. It illuminates some things I've been suspecting for years.

 

[spider-neil]

It made Batman see Superman as a human and not a threat to destroy.

The Martha scene should have started a conversation. I could have bought that reaction but they were best buds afterwards. Think of Batman's character motivations leading up to the fight, where his reactions 'natural' after the reveal? Be honest.

What I will say is that I've been reading comics since I was 7. I think the first comic I ever read was a World's Finest and it never occurred to me their mothers shared the same name. It was a nice reveal but the execution (imho) was sloppy.

 

[morningmimosa]

Grace Randolph had a fascinating YouTube discussion about what's going on behind the scenes. Worth checking out. My biggest takeaway, Poni_Boy's agenda makes even more sense after watching the video.

I suggest everyone seek out that 18 minute video. It illuminates some things I've been suspecting for years.

I can't watch the video at the moment, but now you got me extremely curious. Could you please give a quick summary of what she says (in a pm if necessary since that might be off topic and we really, really need this thread).

 

[AnneFan]

Grace Randolph had a fascinating YouTube discussion about what's going on behind the scenes. Worth checking out. My biggest takeaway, Poni_Boy's agenda makes even more sense after watching the video.

I suggest everyone seek out that 18 minute video. It illuminates some things I've been suspecting for years.

I'll take a look. Thanks Jumpman.

It was a nice reveal but the execution (imho) was sloppy.

Horses for courses.

Batman is tied up in his origins. His parents murder is a big deal, and he never got over it. So his reaction is believable to me. He's protective over their memory. He has a graphic nightmare in the film about it too - the blood pouring out of the crypt.

 

[Jumpman]

https://youtu.be/HDOQdur9CnQ

 

[Consona]

The film is much deeper than what critics dare to admit IMO or are able to grasp.

I like all those psychological details. Lex's nervousness, his bipolar manic phases. I have this disorder so I recognize it, when I see it. The way he thinks so fast and on so many levels, that he cannot articulate his thoughts into spoken sentences, I know all those things. And I know deep existential depression, unbearable obsessions and deep doubt too (I studied philosophical scepticism at college ) and all those things let me relate to and empathize with all those characters so well and let me see how detailed the character writing in BvS is.

 

[Herolee10]

Since this is the Positivity Thread, I'll only contribute on that aspect for this post.

Personally, I LOVED the montage shown of Superman's rescues throughout the world as you saw people debating about his existence and what he means to the world.

Unlike some films that just go about doing these types of rescue montages in a campy/fun nature way, I liked the gravitas that this montage brought to the film....showing on how much of a burden being Superman could be.

I never got the impression that Clark felt reluctant to be saving people in this (or any sequence). Rather than that, I felt like they were trying to show on much of a huge burden Clark has on his shoulders (which he's fully aware of and still willing to bear).

I also loved the intimacy present between Lois and Clark/Superman in this film.

I was actually surprised that Snyder was even capable of presenting a couple like this in one of his films considering on how most of his fictional couples from his previous films are more about the sexual aspects of their relationships.

The bathtub scene was done with class and didn't feel like a tasteless love scene. And the look between Superman and Lois as he caught her from being pushed off of Lexcorp was splendid. I also love the music that Hans has orchestrated specifically for the couple.

See, I am capable of liking parts of this film.lol

 

[Reel-Man]

3 viewings already and loved it! Now waiting for the R-rated blu-ray cut

Or theatrical:

If WB releases BATMAN V SUPERMAN ultimate cut in theaters I'll be first in line. @ZackSnyder told me he's making a DCP of it so they could.
1:30pm - 28 Mar 16

https://mobile.***********/colliderfrosty/status/714504830039887872

 

[Tim_Riggins]

https://youtu.be/HDOQdur9CnQ

There's a lot of good points in there, namely I remember reading that DC didn't really play ball with the press too much, sort of secretive and keeping to themselves. The other point about the click centric, "I don't like this so the whole movie's crap" is definitely true.

So many reviews for BvS, just read the headline, like The Film Stage in that video "BvS made 27.7 million on midnight, obviously a lot of you didn't read our review", click baity headlines and titles, reviews reduced to snarky sound bites, not bothering to see beneath the surface, it's either great or terrible (an that's not just the press).

Anyway, finishing up the video, thanks Jumpman, this is a good find.

And Matt, before you come in here and accuse me of anything, I'm not calling anyone a hater, or anything, it's cool that some people legit didn't like it, but there's a lot more at play here. It's all about perception.

 

[AnneFan]

https://youtu.be/HDOQdur9CnQ

Valid points in there.

The BvS Tomato Meter is laughable.

 

[Jumpman]

There a lot of good points in there, namely I remember reading that DC didn't really play ball with the press too much, sort of secretive and keeping to themselves. The other point about the click centric, "I don't like this so the whole movie's crap" is definitely true.

So many reviews for BvS, just read the headline, like The Film Stage in that video "BvS made 27.7 million on midnight, obviously a lot of you didn't read our review", click baity headlines and titles, reviews reduced to snarky sound bites, not bothering to see beneath the surface, it's either great or terrible (an that's not just the press).

Anyway, finishing up the video, thanks Jumpman, this is a good find.

And Matt, before you come in here and accuse me of anything, I'm not calling anyone a hater, or anything, it's cool that some people legit didn't like it, but there's a lot more at play here. It's all about perception.

Look this up on Twitter; when it was revealed that the online press weren't seeing the film at the same time the regular, big press was seeing it, you could literally see how upset they got over it on Twitter.

All of them were ******** over it. I knew then that something was going to happen...but not to this degree.

Her points were spot on. Had no idea that Paramount flew everyone to Dubai for the press of GHOST PROTOCOL. Scratch my back, I'll scratch yours. The use of swag, which has been done forever, is now a big problem. At least Grace admits to opening that stuff AFTER she's seen the film.

Telling you, more stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with the merits of the film is going on behind the scenes.

 

[Jumpman]

Valid points in there.

The BvS Tomato Meter is laughable.

Very valid.

And last night, I said my 4th viewing would be my last in the theatre. Forget that. Going again next week. I need one more.

 

[Reel-Man]

I don't remember if it was here that I posted this or on my FB, but I did notice this incredible snobbism from critics (paid critics). Specially those blog based "hip" writers who slam the movie in their headlines. Then the rest of the review reads like a petulant child throwing tantrums to his parents. It's hard to take reviewers serious. Where are the critics in the old style of Ebert and such. He did his job but professionally. It wasn't about being snarky or putting on a show to get attention and be the most outrageous one out there.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I liked this film. I really did... But, maybe this is my hater slip showing, and despite some good points... I just don't believe in the main gist of what Grace said in that vid at this time.

I find Grace disingenuous under the best of circumstances. I think she decided, as I think she does with lots of properties she knows have super impassioned fans, to play coy and say a lot of stuff she knew would get her clicks (pot meet kettle was all I could think when she went on about click baiting) in the run up to the release of BVS, saying some REALLY stupid stuff that I just don't think she believed but which she knew would get her into the conversation. Then she was going to give us this turn around of opinion having heard rumors of good responses from execs to the finished movie. Now she got burned for being on the wrong end of what is seemingly the popular opinion right now as expressed by the loudest voices.

Long story short... Her credibility with me is zero, and it honestly should be with everyone, and I say this as someone that would welcome a well known voice on the "pro" side, if you will... Grace is not that person. Contrarian or putting her finger up, I just get the impression that she doesn't believe anything she says.

 

[Jumpman]

I am nervously counting the days til April 11th. After that, if Snyder is still on board, everything else is white noise to me.

 

[OutOfBoose]

The Martha scene should have started a conversation. I could have bought that reaction but they were best buds afterwards. Think of Batman's character motivations leading up to the fight, where his reactions 'natural' after the reveal? Be honest.

What conversation? They had to save the world. Superman said his mother is losing time.

Yes, I bought reactions. Not the first time I watched the film, not entirely, at least, but the second time for sure. Because I had time to think about it.

Batman was digging stuff on Luthor the whole movie. He knew about Lex's interest in meta-humans, he knew that Lex had kryptonite, then he learns that Lex is taking Superman's mother hostage and Superman wanted to ask for his help... Why didn't he kill Superman? At first he paused on his mother's name, then he saw Superman at his mercy, who begged not for his own life, but for life of his mother, human. I took it like this.