The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!! - Part 1

[Doc Samson]

His symbol is supposed to be incorruptible. Something is not connecting here; the mistake is coming from the choices HE made. HE let Harvey get blown have way to hell...This is born of Batman's selfishness. He's not totally independent yet, he's holding on to a hope that he'll be able to have a 'normal' life. A dream long dead; he's still the same child trying to piece together what has happened.

It's not a surprise that the Scene in his penthouse, where Alfred holds the note from him and the scene where he admits feeling guilt over his parents death in TDK and BB respectively are so similar.

We're seeing he's grown but, his heart and soul are still young Bruce Wayne. Not to mention that his use of Wayne Tech has nothing to do with anything except aiding Batman...where is Bruce in this equation? No where...he's hiding under that cowl...but from what.

His failures.

See, I agree with you up until Dent went crazy. At that point, he does realize, quote literally, that his life is anything but normal, and will never be again. Remember, the most important factor in this "normal" life was being with Rachel. With her & Dent both gone, he understands what he's into now. I think that's the only reason he decides to go on the run in the first place.

Now the one angle where Catwoman works, at least for me, is giving him that woman that isn't so "normal" either, someone who understands and lives that type of lifestyle, that he can be somewhat smitten over. But at the end of the day, he is still Batman, still vigilant, and I hope, still ready to take a criminal (which Selina is, at the core of her character) to jail.

Catwoman was and always be somewhat of an error in judgment, you're totally right if she dies, it's on his hands. But she serves as an image of him that I think an audience can accept.
A young boy working with him, seems wrong, I don't Nolan's Batman will be able to do that convincingly without people thinking he's a creep.

But an autonomous, strong woman, seems easier to accept; but That's only if I believed he had a choice in the matter. Robin is a choice, he trains Robin, brings him in, Catwoman exist without his consent and circumstances at the moment may prevent him from going after her because Bane is a larger issue.

That doesn't mean when its said and done, he won't do the right thing.

Like I said in my original post, I absolutely think including Robin, in this type of universe, makes Bruce seem like a creep. I just happen to think that allowing Catwoman, while maybe easier to believe, is still a huge error of judgement and goes against his principles.

Because she does exist without his consent is all the more reason for him to treat her just like he did the copycats. It would be one thing if he just saved those guys and let them go free, but he detained them right along with Crane and the other goons. He understood what they were trying to do, but they did it wrong, and endangered lives, and used weapons. That's all he needed to see to make sure they got arrested as well.

 

[The_Raganork]

We're beginning to agree.

Having Bruce err by trusting Catwoman makes a good contention but, worthy few of Bruce Wayne

Having Bruce be a creep is not.

So there's why one is better than the other.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Not saying they need, or should, include any foreshadowing to Robin, BUT, if they were, simply having Bruce going to a show with the Flying Graysons before the credits roll would be sufficient.

Or there could be a scene where Bruce is reading the newspaper with an advertisement of some upcoming circus show that will be featuring the Flying Graysons on the opposite page of what he is reading.

 

[Knight Rise]

Or you could just a effing robin in a tree that's next to Bruce's parents grave. He'll begin to stand up, thinking about Rachel

"Remember when you said we'd be together when Gotham no longer needs batman?"

He looks up to find the Robin watching him

"It's coming"

Nolan is keen on symbolism so that's what I would like to see

 

[Poni_Boy]

Or there could be a scene where Bruce is reading the newspaper with an advertisement of some upcoming circus show that will be featuring the Flying Graysons on the opposite page of what he is reading.

That would work well too. You guys are pretty creative

Or you could just a effing robin in a tree that's next to Bruce's parents grave. He'll begin to stand up, thinking about Rachel

"Remember when you said we'd be together when Gotham no longer needs batman?"

He looks up to find the Robin watching him

"It's coming"

Nolan is keen on symbolism so that's what I would like to see

That would be totally lost on me. I can't tell the difference between a Robin and any other brown/reddish bird.

 

[Eelectro 2]

i wouldnt mind robin if nolan or his brother created him within this universe cuz i think itd work well in the right context but not until a 4th film if that ever happens

 

[Knight Rise]

i wouldnt mind robin if nolan or his brother created him within this universe cuz i think itd work well in the right context but not until a 4th film if that ever happens

Both Robin and the 4th film aren't happening. The whole point of this universe was to focus on the start of Batman and Batman alone. By the looks of the first 2 films and what we've heard about the 3rd, it's gone far enough. Filmmakers understand there is a point you need to stop because they don't give a s**t about what we think about sequels. Its just a smart thing to do

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

It would be good to see Nolan's Dick.....




GRAYSON!!!


Filthy minds.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

It would be good to see Nolan's Dick.....




GRAYSON!!!


Filthy minds.

 

[adamwe]

I wouldn't mind seeing Dick Grayson in the Movies, being adopted, growing up, but putting him into a colorful outfit and making him a target for tons of dangerous psychopaths? I find that ridiculous .

He can be part of Bruce's life and help out without being the boy wonder. Leave him in the cave, let him help out with equipment and computers. You can even make him Bruce's sparring partner. Of course Bruce would forbid him from ever joining him on his nightly tours. Until Bruce doesn't respond on his communicator and you see Dick pick up one of the spare suits.

This Idea I like. Robin could relay important info to Batman the way Alfred and Fox did in the Dark Knight. He doesn't necessarily have to live with Batman or even know his identity for that matter. HIs character would be somewhat like Oracle in the comics.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

But that's not Robin at all.

 

[cin0]

I rest my case. It's nice to see that the video game industry doesn't abandon great characters because some ******* made a stupid version of him/her several years ago. That's Tim Drake but could work for Grayson as well. Late-teens or early 20's which is perfectly realistic and not too young

I really like that one.

 

[antsman41]

Best way to add Grayson/Robin in this trilogy without ruining BATMAN, would be a "Joker Card" scene at the end. All we get in someway or form is the Haly's Circus advertisement with a Flying Grayson's tagline...

 

[Two-Face]

I like Robin's new look. not having hair doesn't bother at all. Since it's Arkhamverse.

 

[8wid]

Robin does need to be a teenager initially because he still has to be young enough to be under the guardianship of Bruce Wayne for a time. At least 15 in his age to serve alongside Batman, and probably excessive training in the same way Bruce did at least through some ninja martial arts as could be offered by Ra's Al Ghul's organization once Batman redirects its mission for good.

 

[the amazing fro]

Or you could just a effing robin in a tree that's next to Bruce's parents grave. He'll begin to stand up, thinking about Rachel

"Remember when you said we'd be together when Gotham no longer needs batman?"

He looks up to find the Robin watching him

"It's coming"

Nolan is keen on symbolism so that's what I would like to see

 

[Knight Rise]

just like the lamborghini

 

[Godzilla2014]

Robin does need to be a teenager initially because he still has to be young enough to be under the guardianship of Bruce Wayne for a time. At least 15 in his age to serve alongside Batman, and probably excessive training in the same way Bruce did at least through some ninja martial arts as could be offered by Ra's Al Ghul's organization once Batman redirects its mission for good.

I agree. I think it would be hard to play the Boy Wonder thing straight without deconstructing the trope in some way without compromising either the seriousness of the story or Batman's likability as a protagonist.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I'm just gonna have to post why Robin works, no matter what universe he is in.

Why a less armored suit?- Because walking around wearing a tank impedes his agility, something Batman mentioned in The Dark Knight, but is much more important to Robin. Also, Robin doesn't go out into direct gunfire like Batman does. Once Batman takes out the biggest threat, Robin joins in, distracting them while Batman gets his job done easier.

How he can actually fight- Bruce was shown in Begins to have been in prison for a few years. However we were also told that his current fighting techniques would get him nowhere and he essentially knows nothing. Show the same thing for Dick. The Graysons were killed because John and Haley threw the mobsters out the circus, just make it John and Dick, show he is already athletically gifted, besides the trapeze. Bruce didn't train with R'as for long and if you show that Dick trained for twice as long as Bruce and is sixteen by the time of donning the domino, then he'd be able to kick more ass than most of the League.

Why the name Robin?- It's a parallel with Bruce, Bruce called himself Batman because of the fear that led to his parent's death. That is what haunts him. Dick called himself Robin as a reminder of his parent's undying love. That is what inspires him.

How he helps in the war- He helps promote the fear. For those who start to see Bruce as a man he then drafts an unaging "Laughing Devil" child who beats up your friends, he brings hellspawn with him that masquerades with the name of a harmless bird.

How he helps in the Bruce Wayne persona- Adopting Dick is the first step to the philanthropic Bruce Wayne seen in the current comics. Bruce can say to the public how having seen the exact same tragedy befall Dick as did himself, has made him grow up and that he will devote his fortune to improving the police force and cleaning out the crooked cops.


Only thing necessary for change is his name. Call him Richard. And there ya go, Robin:

 

[The_Raganork]

I'm just gonna have to post why Robin works, no matter what universe he is in.

Why a less armored suit?- Because walking around wearing a tank impedes his agility, something Batman mentioned in The Dark Knight, but is much more important to Robin. Also, Robin doesn't go out into direct gunfire like Batman does. Once Batman takes out the biggest threat, Robin joins in, distracting them while Batman gets his job done easier.

How he can actually fight- Bruce was shown in Begins to have been in prison for a few years. However we were also told that his current fighting techniques would get him nowhere and he essentially knows nothing. Show the same thing for Dick. The Graysons were killed because John and Haley threw the mobsters out the circus, just make it John and Dick, show he is already athletically gifted, besides the trapeze. Bruce didn't train with R'as for long and if you show that Dick trained for twice as long as Bruce and is sixteen by the time of donning the domino, then he'd be able to kick more ass than most of the League.

Why the name Robin?- It's a parallel with Bruce, Bruce called himself Batman because of the fear that led to his parent's death. That is what haunts him. Dick called himself Robin as a reminder of his parent's undying love. That is what inspires him.

How he helps in the war- He helps promote the fear. For those who start to see Bruce as a man he then drafts an unaging "Laughing Devil" child who beats up your friends, he brings hellspawn with him that masquerades with the name of a harmless bird.

How he helps in the Bruce Wayne persona- Adopting Dick is the first step to the philanthropic Bruce Wayne seen in the current comics. Bruce can say to the public how having seen the exact same tragedy befall Dick as did himself, has made him grow up and that he will devote his fortune to improving the police force and cleaning out the crooked cops.


Only thing necessary for change is his name. Call him Richard. And there ya go, Robin:

I'm afraid that doesn't even begin to explain the biggest issues of Robin in a Nolan film

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I'm afraid that doesn't even begin to explain the biggest issues of Robin in a Nolan film

And the bigger issues are? Those are the ones I usually see.

 

[The_Raganork]

And the bigger issues are? Those are the ones I usually see.

I'm not going to post my entire argument again but, if you go back a page and read through my post you'll see.

Long story short:

Bruce Wayne ala Nolanverse taking anyone in to do this work with him is wrong. After seeing him be shot, mauled, hit by a car, stabbed, bludgeoned, fall off a building, set on fire, drugged, stomped, ect, it seems unlikely that Bruce would then say:

"I'll let you in on the danger"

It's totally counterintuitive to his character and what his struggle is in these films

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Oh, literally how Robin can come to fruition?

Well, the broad stroke is that no matter what Bruce says Grayson is still going to go out and try to find Zucco, it's Dick's choice not Bruce's. Bruce knows that feeling. It was explored in Batman Begins, he was going to kill Joe Chill. Bruce more than anyone else knows that Dick becoming Robin is not about just joining him. It's about providing him with the same guidance R'as gave him. He let's him do it because it turns his anger and need for vengeance into something more, something pure. Knowing that he can save people, that is a true purpose, not killing Joe Chill.

 

[The_Raganork]

Oh, literally how Robin can come to fruition?

Well, the broad stroke is that no matter what Bruce says Grayson is still going to go out and try to find Zucco, it's Dick's choice not Bruce's. Bruce knows that feeling. It was explored in Batman Begins, he was going to kill Joe Chill. Bruce more than anyone else knows that Dick becoming Robin is not about just joining him. It's about providing him with the same guidance R'as gave him. He let's him do it because it turns his anger and need for vengeance into something more, something pure. Knowing that he can save people, that is a true purpose, not killing Joe Chill.

eh....



I don't think he'd let him go fight crime. Bruce in Nolanverse (I admit Robin can work in many universes) would probably apprehend Dick and put him in custody somewhere.

He knows how it feels to have his parents ripped from him, yes but, he also knows how it feels to be shot and that no matter what he does, he'll never avenge his parents.

Batman is a lonely, cold, horrid road that Bruce decide to embark on and I don't see BaleWayne saying to anyone "Well hey, I know your mad so I'm going to let you in on this."

It's the wrong thing to do, no one should have to be Batman or do the things he does.

 

[Godzilla2014]

I'm just gonna have to post why Robin works, no matter what universe he is in.

Why a less armored suit?- Because walking around wearing a tank impedes his agility, something Batman mentioned in The Dark Knight, but is much more important to Robin. Also, Robin doesn't go out into direct gunfire like Batman does. Once Batman takes out the biggest threat, Robin joins in, distracting them while Batman gets his job done easier.

How he can actually fight- Bruce was shown in Begins to have been in prison for a few years. However we were also told that his current fighting techniques would get him nowhere and he essentially knows nothing. Show the same thing for Dick. The Graysons were killed because John and Haley threw the mobsters out the circus, just make it John and Dick, show he is already athletically gifted, besides the trapeze. Bruce didn't train with R'as for long and if you show that Dick trained for twice as long as Bruce and is sixteen by the time of donning the domino, then he'd be able to kick more ass than most of the League.

Why the name Robin?- It's a parallel with Bruce, Bruce called himself Batman because of the fear that led to his parent's death. That is what haunts him. Dick called himself Robin as a reminder of his parent's undying love. That is what inspires him.

How he helps in the war- He helps promote the fear. For those who start to see Bruce as a man he then drafts an unaging "Laughing Devil" child who beats up your friends, he brings hellspawn with him that masquerades with the name of a harmless bird.

How he helps in the Bruce Wayne persona- Adopting Dick is the first step to the philanthropic Bruce Wayne seen in the current comics. Bruce can say to the public how having seen the exact same tragedy befall Dick as did himself, has made him grow up and that he will devote his fortune to improving the police force and cleaning out the crooked cops.


Only thing necessary for change is his name. Call him Richard. And there ya go, Robin:

I'm not going to post my entire argument again but, if you go back a page and read through my post you'll see.

Long story short:

Bruce Wayne ala Nolanverse taking anyone in to do this work with him is wrong. After seeing him be shot, mauled, hit by a car, stabbed, bludgeoned, fall off a building, set on fire, drugged, stomped, ect, it seems unlikely that Bruce would then say:

"I'll let you in on the danger"

It's totally counterintuitive to his character and what his struggle is in these films

I agree with both Llama_Shepherd's ideas and Raganork8's criticism.

Oh, literally how Robin can come to fruition?

Well, the broad stroke is that no matter what Bruce says Grayson is still going to go out and try to find Zucco, it's Dick's choice not Bruce's. Bruce knows that feeling. It was explored in Batman Begins, he was going to kill Joe Chill. Bruce more than anyone else knows that Dick becoming Robin is not about just joining him. It's about providing him with the same guidance R'as gave him. He let's him do it because it turns his anger and need for vengeance into something more, something pure. Knowing that he can save people, that is a true purpose, not killing Joe Chill.

The problem I have with this idea is that it makes Dick/Richard into an insolent little ****, and extort Batman into letting him fight alongside him, which would make me hate him. That was why fans chose Jason Todd to be killed off. He can still receive guidance without hitting the street with Batman.

eh....



I don't think he'd let him go fight crime. Bruce in Nolanverse (I admit Robin can work in many universes) would probably apprehend Dick and put him in custody somewhere.

He knows how it feels to have his parents ripped from him, yes but, he also knows how it feels to be shot and that no matter what he does, he'll never avenge his parents.

Batman is a lonely, cold, horrid road that Bruce decide to embark on and I don't see BaleWayne saying to anyone "Well hey, I know your mad so I'm going to let you in on this."

It's the wrong thing to do, no one should have to be Batman or do the things he does.

I agree.