The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!! - Part 1

[Doc Samson]

So plenty of rumors flourished last year that Nolan would make a definitive "end" to his Batman saga with this film; namely, killing off Bruce Wayne. Not only is this a depressing thought in and of itself but it seems to go against the character that Nolan is slowly evolving. Being that this is the last film of the franchise and Bruce needs to be given some sort of closure, how do you feel the introduction of Dick Grayson would play to fans and general audiences? Not so much as a character throughout, or even a "big reveal," but something towards the very end of the film that shows Bruce's adoption of Dick is in his imminent future (off camera, of course).

Not saying they need, or should, include any foreshadowing to Robin, BUT, if they were, simply having Bruce going to a show with the Flying Graysons before the credits roll would be sufficient.

 

[Kynergy]

So plenty of rumors flourished last year that Nolan would make a definitive "end" to his Batman saga with this film; namely, killing off Bruce Wayne. Not only is this a depressing thought in and of itself but it seems to go against the character that Nolan is slowly evolving. Being that this is the last film of the franchise and Bruce needs to be given some sort of closure, how do you feel the introduction of Dick Grayson would play to fans and general audiences? Not so much as a character throughout, or even a "big reveal," but something towards the very end of the film that shows Bruce's adoption of Dick is in his imminent future (off camera, of course).

Well, its never been said that Bruce will die in this movie, thats just speculation. But I see what your saying with Dick being seen at the end. A sort of nod to everyone that Batman is going to continue what he is do, and that Dick will be a part of it one day. But something like Bruce meeting a little kid with black hair and giving him a friendly smile or head nod just doesn't seem like something Nolan would do. It would be cool to fans, but Nolan doesn't seem interested in doing fan service.

Also, if Dick was at the end of the film, it would leave it open for a sequel. Nolan wants to make sure that no one else can get their hands on his story of Batman, so there will be a tightly sealed ending. I'm not saying something like Batman no longer needed, but the movie wont be left open for a sequel to be made. The franchise will need to be rebooted, and then I think we will see Robin's return to the big screen

Not saying they need, or should, include any foreshadowing to Robin, BUT, if they were, simply having Bruce going to a show with the Flying Graysons before the credits roll would be sufficient.

Again, that would be cool to see. But I don't see Nolan doing anything like that. But fans would certainly enjoy the nod to Robin.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Not saying they need, or should, include any foreshadowing to Robin, BUT, if they were, simply having Bruce going to a show with the Flying Graysons before the credits roll would be sufficient.

Exactly, a scene like that hints at the inevitable, but it doesn't make Dick a part of the film that will lead to comparisons with past Batman projects.

Do you think fans would accept this positively or negatively?

 

[J. Senoah]

I think if Robin appears in a Batman movie, the whole movie should focus on that story. There is no room for that in TDKR.

 

[Poni_Boy]

Well, its never been said that Bruce will die in this movie, thats just speculation. But I see what your saying with Dick being seen at the end. A sort of nod to everyone that Batman is going to continue what he is do, and that Dick will be a part of it one day. But something like Bruce meeting a little kid with black hair and giving him a friendly smile or head nod just doesn't seem like something Nolan would do. It would be cool to fans, but Nolan doesn't seem interested in doing fan service.

Also, if Dick was at the end of the film, it would leave it open for a sequel. Nolan wants to make sure that no one else can get their hands on his story of Batman, so there will be a tightly sealed ending. I'm not saying something like Batman no longer needed, but the movie wont be left open for a sequel to be made. The franchise will need to be rebooted, and then I think we will see Robin's return to the big screen




Again, that would be cool to see. But I don't see Nolan doing anything like that. But fans would certainly enjoy the nod to Robin.

Yes, that's why I said "rumors"... that means speculation by more than one person.

As far as leaving loose ends, there's no way to tie up every loose end in this film short of killing Batman (more than likely that is what led to the rumors). Even without introducing the notion of a future Robin the film would be leave loose ends: Who does Batman face next? Will the Joker return? What happens to Alfred? and on and on and on...

Face it, very, VERY few directors will be willing to jump onto the next Batman franchise after Nolan leaves; and they would be out of their minds to try for a fourth installment of the series instead of a reboot/relaunch/do over (which Nolan pretty much guarantees won't happen since he's already signed on to produce the next film).

I'm not asking if Nolan can find a way to fit that sort of ending into the film -- only Nolan can answer that question -- I'm asking if fans and general audiences would be receptive to it.

 

[tekken]

you guys make very good points.

then it's settled - WB's next batman-related projects should be BATMAN BEYOND and TEEN TITANS. that way we can have a different kind of batman movie, and a movie with robin in it - but both will feel like robin movies.

 

[Kynergy]

Yes, that's why I said "rumors"... that means speculation by more than one person.

As far as leaving loose ends, there's no way to tie up every loose end in this film short of killing Batman (more than likely that is what led to the rumors). Even without introducing the notion of a future Robin the film would be leave loose ends: Who does Batman face next? Will the Joker return? What happens to Alfred? and on and on and on...

Face it, very, VERY few directors will be willing to jump onto the next Batman franchise after Nolan leaves; and they would be out of their minds to try for a fourth installment of the series instead of a reboot/relaunch/do over (which Nolan pretty much guarantees won't happen since he's already signed on to produce the next film).

I'm not asking if Nolan can find a way to fit that sort of ending into the film -- only Nolan can answer that question -- I'm asking if fans and general audiences would be receptive to it.

Sorry, thats my bad. I misread you there.

I agree, I doubt anyone will be willing to take over this series after Nolan. True, there are going to be loose ends. The ideal ending for me is that Batman will continue to do what he is doing, and its left at that. We just wont know who he'll be fighting or what he'll be doing. All we know is that he will still be fighting crime. That way it leaves the future of Batman in Nolan's series up to the viewers imagination.

I don't think many people, fans in particular, would be happy with Batman's death. I could see why Nolan would have that happen, but I don't think its the only way to end the series. What I mean by making this film sequel proof is tying up all loose ends established in this series. There probaly wont be many plot holes once TDKR is over. That way the only thing we are wondering about is Batman's next adventure, not how he will fix something that all ready happened.

Thats where the reboot comes in. The reboot doesn't need to have an origin story. It can start out with Bruce Wayne already firmly in place as Batman. It just wont follow any of Nolan's past plots or ideas, because all those loose ends created by him will be tied up. All we will be wondering after TDKR ends is what will Batman do next, not with Nolan's story, just with Batman in general. That will be when Robin will possibly come into the story. And we will wait patiently for the reboot to come out for that to be answered.

I might have not been very clear so let me know if I'm not making any sense

 

[Poni_Boy]

Sorry, thats my bad. I misread you there.

I agree, I doubt anyone will be willing to take over this series after Nolan. True, there are going to be loose ends. The ideal ending for me is that Batman will continue to do what he is doing, and its left at that. We just wont know who he'll be fighting or what he'll be doing. All we know is that he will still be fighting crime. That way it leaves the future of Batman in Nolan's series up to the viewers imagination.

I don't think many people, fans in particular, would be happy with Batman's death. I could see why Nolan would have that happen, but I don't think its the only way to end the series. What I mean by making this film sequel proof is tying up all loose ends established in this series. There probaly wont be many plot holes once TDKR is over. That way the only thing we are wondering about is Batman's next adventure, not how he will fix something that all ready happened.

Thats where the reboot comes in. The reboot doesn't need to have an origin story. It can start out with Bruce Wayne already firmly in place as Batman. It just wont follow any of Nolan's past plots or ideas, because all those loose ends created by him will be tied up. All we will be wondering after TDKR ends is what will Batman do next, not with Nolan's story, just with Batman in general. That will be when Robin will possibly come into the story. And we will wait patiently for the reboot to come out for that to be answered.

I might have not been very clear so let me know if I'm not making any sense

Perfect sense, thank you

I'd love to see the story pick up with a veteran Batman (early 40ish) and see what has happened to Gotham.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

Robin should have his own "Begins" movie that should be a spin-off of the next Batman franchise. It could start off with him as a little kid and shows him, inspired by Batman and Robin Hood, growing up and dawning his own Robin motif and seeking vengeance for his families death when he's about 15-18. Batman's place wouldn't be building him up to be his side-kick but rather a mentor/apprentice role.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

Sorry, thats my bad. I misread you there.

I agree, I doubt anyone will be willing to take over this series after Nolan. True, there are going to be loose ends. The ideal ending for me is that Batman will continue to do what he is doing, and its left at that. We just wont know who he'll be fighting or what he'll be doing. All we know is that he will still be fighting crime. That way it leaves the future of Batman in Nolan's series up to the viewers imagination.

I don't think many people, fans in particular, would be happy with Batman's death. I could see why Nolan would have that happen, but I don't think its the only way to end the series. What I mean by making this film sequel proof is tying up all loose ends established in this series. There probaly wont be many plot holes once TDKR is over. That way the only thing we are wondering about is Batman's next adventure, not how he will fix something that all ready happened.

Thats where the reboot comes in. The reboot doesn't need to have an origin story. It can start out with Bruce Wayne already firmly in place as Batman. It just wont follow any of Nolan's past plots or ideas, because all those loose ends created by him will be tied up. All we will be wondering after TDKR ends is what will Batman do next, not with Nolan's story, just with Batman in general. That will be when Robin will possibly come into the story. And we will wait patiently for the reboot to come out for that to be answered.

I might have not been very clear so let me know if I'm not making any sense

 

[Poni_Boy]

Robin should have his own "Begins" movie that should be a spin-off of the next Batman franchise. It could start off with him as a little kid and shows him, inspired by Batman and Robin Hood, growing up and dawning his own Robin motif and seeking vengeance for his families death when he's about 15-18. Batman's place wouldn't be building him up to be his side-kick but rather a mentor/apprentice role.

Isn't that a complete reworking of the character from start to finish? Why not just create a new character then?

 

[Kynergy]

Robin should have his own "Begins" movie that should be a spin-off of the next Batman franchise. It could start off with him as a little kid and shows him, inspired by Batman and Robin Hood, growing up and dawning his own Robin motif and seeking vengeance for his families death when he's about 15-18. Batman's place wouldn't be building him up to be his side-kick but rather a mentor/apprentice role.

That sounds vaguely similar to something else...

I see where your going and it would be interesting, but like Poni_Boy said thats re writing the entire character. As much as I would like a solo Robin film, it will never happen. He'll have to be integrated into a Batman film at some point in the future if he is ever going to be in another movie.

 

[thedarks0ldier]

Isn't that a complete reworking of the character from start to finish? Why not just create a new character then?

I don't think so. It's as much of a reworking as Batman got in Begins. Ra's never met up with Bruce pre-Batman in the mythos, but now he's kind of the reason for Batman's mad ninja skills.

I chose this route because I wouldn't believe Batman would train a kid or anyone unless he had absolutely no choice. The movie can even have Batman from the second act on, but it would still be a Robin movie.

 

[The_Raganork]

Agreed, just the concept of Robin tends to make Batman somewhat of a contradiction. Maybe even a little weird.

But I think that also extends to Catwoman, at least in the context that he would actually align himself with her, or to even allow her to exist. If he's injured for a period of time and unable to physically stop her, that's one thing, but once he is, I just can't see this version of Batman letting her go about town.

Especially if she's a thief in any capacity. It's going to be interesting how that dynamic plays out, because to me, it's much the same scenario as Robin. Perhaps even worse, considering she's a criminal at times, and at least in Robin's case, Wayne has a nurturing role in his development, skillset & moral compass

Ah but, Catwoman is ambiguous. She can be good or bad, she can align herself with Batman but, that does not make her loyal.

His trust for her is always something he has to worry about. this makes them at odds with each other whilst very much caring for each other.

She's also someone who understands the risks of what he's doing and can handle it. While Robin seems driven by something not as powerful as Batman.

 

[Doc Samson]

Ah but, Catwoman is ambiguous. She can be good or bad, she can align herself with Batman but, that does not make her loyal.

His trust for her is always something he has to worry about. this makes them at odds with each other whilst very much caring for each other.

She's also someone who understands the risks of what he's doing and can handle it. While Robin seems driven by something not as powerful as Batman.

I tend to disagree, Robin (at least the only one I consider, Dick Grayson) is driven by the exact same thing as Batman, which is the murder of his parents. If Bruce were to understand anyone's anger and be able to channel it in a somewhat positive manner, it's Dick Grayson.

Depending on Nolan's interpretation of Catwoman, we'll have a better idea if she's so ambiguous or not. Throughout her comic history she has been, but who knows how she'll appear this time. Nolan's version of Batman doesn't seem to really consider shades of gray too well, it's pretty black and white so far.

There's good guys and bad guys to him, as long as he's the only one working in the gray area, everything is fine. How would Catwoman seem any different to him than all the other guys in "hockey pads"?

 

[Aesculapius]

Robin was never a good idea. For one, his colors stand out, so it's terrible character design for Batman in the first place, for two his story just doesn't make sense in Nolan Batman. Bruce isn't old enough to be fighting crime with little Dick.

 

[Poni_Boy]

I don't think so. It's as much of a reworking as Batman got in Begins. Ra's never met up with Bruce pre-Batman in the mythos, but now he's kind of the reason for Batman's mad ninja skills.

I chose this route because I wouldn't believe Batman would train a kid or anyone unless he had absolutely no choice. The movie can even have Batman from the second act on, but it would still be a Robin movie.

I think you're missing the point of Robin, though, as well as a key element of his storyline. He isn't a vigilante that's inspired for the sake of inspiration, his motivation comes from the same tragedy that befell Bruce: the murder of his parents. When Bruce took him under his wing and allowed him to become Robin, he came full circle; a father figure that he himself lacked.

If you take away the death of Dick's parents as his reason for joining Bruce in the fight against criminal, he IS a completely different character. Unless you're talking about a different Robin that I'm unfamiliar with; in which case I'm lost.

 

[Aesculapius]

I tend to disagree, Robin (at least the only one I consider, Dick Grayson) is driven by the exact same thing as Batman, which is the murder of his parents. If Bruce were to understand anyone's anger and be able to channel it in a somewhat positive manner, it's Dick Grayson.

Depending on Nolan's interpretation of Catwoman, we'll have a better idea if she's so ambiguous or not. Throughout her comic history she has been, but who knows how she'll appear this time. Nolan's version of Batman doesn't seem to really consider shades of gray too well, it's pretty black and white so far.

There's good guys and bad guys to him, as long as he's the only one working in the gray area, everything is fine. How would Catwoman seem any different to him than all the other guys in "hockey pads"?

She will probably be able to kick Batman's ass. that's how.

 

[Doc Samson]

She will probably be able to kick Batman's ass. that's how.

And if that's the case, they might as well toss out Batman Begins altogether, unless she was in the League of Shadows someplace.

 

[The_Raganork]

I tend to disagree, Robin (at least the only one I consider, Dick Grayson) is driven by the exact same thing as Batman, which is the murder of his parents. If Bruce were to understand anyone's anger and be able to channel it in a somewhat positive manner, it's Dick Grayson. [/quote[

And Bruce knows how futile this fight is. His struggle isn't about avenging his parents anymore. It's about committing to an ideal that his parents stood for.

Nolan's Batman would never let someone endure anything similar to his fight; it would be precisely against his ideal of having a better gotham so no one suffers like he did.

Letting Dick into that opens his world to the inevitable revelation that he will never be complete in his fight.

Throughout her comic history she has been, but who knows how she'll appear this time.

Nolan is a story Teller, the ambiguity is what makes her a worthy character for story. I'd bet my bottom dollar she'll have that ambiguity.

Nolan's version of Batman doesn't seem to really consider shades of gray too well, it's pretty black and white so far.

Do you mean Batman doesn't consider Black and white? if so you're absolutely right. Doesn't Catwoman as a love interest but, falling into a shade of grey then provide a worthy source of contention in the Dark Knight?

How will he approach this anti-hero/ good-villain? especially if he has feelings for her. seems to demand a reworking of his ideals...which sounds like a hell of a story to me.

How would Catwoman seem any different to him than all the other guys in "hockey pads"?

Because like them, Catwoman isn't fighting for his ideals, she's entered into this independent of Batman.

Ra's said: "Will is everything"

This would make her his equivalent in terms of will. That separates them greatly but, also locks them together differently than anyone else.

 

[Doc Samson]

And Bruce knows how futile this fight is. His struggle isn't about avenging his parents anymore. It's about committing to an ideal that his parents stood for.

Nolan's Batman would never let someone endure anything similar to his fight; it would be precisely against his ideal of having a better gotham so no one suffers like he did.

Letting Dick into that opens his world to the inevitable revelation that he will never be complete in his fight.

But it began with those same motivations, so how could he not understand and be able to teach him about the light at the end of that tunnel?

It's not really about Bruce letting him endure anything, because the tragedy happens regardless, it's about not allowing him to fall down the wrong path, which could result in Dick killing somebody like Bruce aspired to do. Remember, in this version, Wayne didn't commit murder because he was so righteous, Falcone simply beat him to it, and he wound up learning his lesson after that.

Nolan is a story Teller, the ambiguity is what makes her a worthy character for story. I'd bet my bottom dollar she'll have that ambiguity.

She probably will, but it still goes against a precedent he already set in TDK. Admittedly, I've never liked the character to begin with, but even so, I can't see how this Batman would allow a Catwoman to exist if he goes out of his way to stop copycats trying to fight crime too. Especially considering she happens to steal from time to time.

There's no such thing as a "professional" vigilante. Bruce feels he's the only one capable and responsible for the task, whether she proves to be an accomplished fighter or not, it's besides the point, everytime she's out there she's endangering her life and others, just because she has a nice rack or a pair of legs shouldn't compromise the mission.

With Robin, he at least knows the level of expertise he has in all facets of crime fighting. With Selina, he knows none of that. Or what her true intents are, because seemingly throughout her history, she doesn't know very well either. One issue she's a sidekick, the next she's Robin Hood. I don't know how long this version of Batman is willing to play those games.

 

[Kynergy]

With Robin, he at least knows the level of expertise he has in all facets of crime fighting. With Selina, he knows none of that. Or what her true intents are, because seemingly throughout her history, she doesn't know very well either. One issue she's a sidekick, the next she's Robin Hood. I don't know how long this version of Batman is willing to play those games.

Maybe he isn't willing at all. He could not put up with it and just keep fighting her until she either gives in or he defeats her. Though I would like to see the ambiguity that Catwoman has in the comics, it would make things more interesting.

 

[The_Raganork]

But it began with those same motivations, so how could he not understand and be able to teach him about the light at the end of that tunnel?

It's not really about Bruce letting him endure anything, because the tragedy happens regardless, it's about not allowing him to fall down the wrong path, which could result in Dick killing somebody like Bruce aspired to do. Remember, in this version, Wayne didn't commit murder because he was so righteous, Falcone simply beat him to it, and he wound up learning his lesson after that.

There is no light at the end of the tunnel, til this day in Nolan verse Bruce hasn't made the step to understand and embrace his parents death. Stopping Dick from killing someone is good but, suggesting and aiding him to fight the scum of Gotham?

This was Bruce's mistake to begin with Batman was a chance to show Gotham that they didn't need to be held ransom and as of now, Gotham believes he's a murderer of innocents. This is a failing.

Letting Dick become Batman -2 or Robin is another failing as he lets a youth take on a role that he needs to take alone to keep his symbol as a sense of hope and deflection. ONE loss in that would be a problem and Robin fighting crime only encourages more from other people.

Feel cheated by terrible crime? Become a vigilante with a purpose!

This can't be it.

She probably will, but it still goes against a precedent he already set in TDK. Admittedly, I've never liked the character to begin with, but even so, I can't see how this Batman would allow a Catwoman to exist. There's no such thing as a "professional" vigilante. Bruce feels he's the only one capable and responsible for the task, whether she proves to be an accomplished fighter or not, it's besides the point, everytime she's out there she's endangering her life and others, just because she has a nice rack or a pair of legs shouldn't compromise the mission.

Exactly, you've written an interesting story. He can't let Catwoman exist but, he has this monster, Bane, ripping his city apart. He's faced with many choices here and at the end of the day he may have to turn on a 'friend' to do the 'right' thing.

Sounds watchable to me.

With Robin, he at least knows the level of expertise he has in all facets of crime fighting. With Selina, he knows none of that. Or what her true intents are, because seemingly throughout her history, she doesn't know very well either. One issue she's a sidekick, the next she's Robin Hood. I don't know how long this version of Batman is willing to play those games.

Robin's training is nothing; not if it's the wrong thing. And taking a young man and putting him against the Criminal world of Gotham is the wrong thing.

Your issues with Catwoman are exactly why I think she's going to be in this movie...the ambiguity is going to be a great source of conflict within Bruce

 

[Doc Samson]

There is no light at the end of the tunnel, til this day in Nolan verse Bruce hasn't made the step to understand and embrace his parents death. Stopping Dick from killing someone is good but, suggesting and aiding him to fight the scum of Gotham?

This was Bruce's mistake to begin with Batman was a chance to show Gotham that they didn't need to be held ransom and as of now, Gotham believes he's a murderer of innocents. This is a failing.

Letting Dick become Batman -2 or Robin is another failing as he lets a youth take on a role that he needs to take alone to keep his symbol as a sense of hope and deflection. ONE loss in that would be a problem and Robin fighting crime only encourages more from other people.

Feel cheated by terrible crime? Become a vigilante with a purpose!

This can't be it.

I think he does accept his parents death though, I don't think you make the decisions he's made thus far without accepting it.

Bruce has never swayed one way or the other, he just thought that his mission was a finite one, that he could place the responsibility to someone else more worthy to handle it, someone with a public persona and face. Once that got blown to shreds, he came to grips with who he is.

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I can do those things because I'm not a hero, not like Dent. I killed those people. That's what I can be. I'm whatever Gotham needs me to be."

You also said that the symbol is something he needs to take alone to keep as a sense of hope and deflection, which is true, and brings me back to my original point. Why is Catwoman an exception to that rule? If she dies trying to help him, it's not any better than Robin having the same fate. Either way, he's the example, and all other masked vigilantes, at least in this universe, are shaped & influenced by him. She is his responsibility just like Robin would be, just like the copycats were, just like Dent was.

Exactly, you've written an interesting story. He can't let Catwoman exist but, he has this monster, Bane, ripping his city apart. He's faced with many choices here and at the end of the day he may have to turn on a 'friend' to do the 'right' thing.

Which would make it all the more troubling that he decides in that time, with that type of foe, to relent and allow someone he barely knows to help. That's downright frightening.

Robin's training is nothing; not if it's the wrong thing. And taking a young man and putting him against the Criminal world of Gotham is the wrong thing.

Your issues with Catwoman are exactly why I think she's going to be in this movie...the ambiguity is going to be a great source of conflict within Bruce

Robin's training at least makes it more plausible that if Batman were to seek help, it would be from someone he trusts, took care of, and trained personally. I don't like Robin as a character much more than I do Catwoman, but I can at least see how Batman would eventually allow Robin to coexist with him.

I hope your right, and the gray area of Catwoman makes for something interesting, but I just hope they don't contradict the core values they equipped Bruce with in the first place. If including Robin goes against those values, allowing a woman who's a thief to run amok and "sometimes" help should fall along those same lines as well....

 

[The_Raganork]

I think he does accept his parents death though, I don't think you make the decisions he's made thus far without accepting it.

Bruce has never swayed one way or the other, he just thought that his mission was a finite one, that he could place the responsibility to someone else more worthy to handle it, someone with a public persona and face. Once that got blown to shreds, he came to grips with who he is.

"You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I can do those things because I'm not a hero, not like Dent. I killed those people. That's what I can be. I'm whatever Gotham needs me to be."

His symbol is supposed to be incorruptible. Something is not connecting here; the mistake is coming from the choices HE made. HE let Harvey get blown have way to hell...This is born of Batman's selfishness. He's not totally independent yet, he's holding on to a hope that he'll be able to have a 'normal' life. A dream long dead; he's still the same child trying to piece together what has happened.

It's not a surprise that the Scene in his penthouse, where Alfred holds the note from him and the scene where he admits feeling guilt over his parents death in TDK and BB respectively are so similar.

We're seeing he's grown but, his heart and soul are still young Bruce Wayne. Not to mention that his use of Wayne Tech has nothing to do with anything except aiding Batman...where is Bruce in this equation? No where...he's hiding under that cowl...but from what.

His failures.

You also said that the symbol is something he needs to take alone to keep as a sense of hope and deflection, which is true, and brings me back to my original point. Why is Catwoman an exception to that rule? If she dies trying to help him, it's not any better than Robin having the same fate. Either way, he's the example, and all other masked vigilantes, at least in this universe, are shaped & influenced by him. She is his responsibility just like Robin would be, just like the copycats were, just like Dent was.

Catwoman was and always be somewhat of an error in judgment, you're totally right if she dies, it's on his hands. But she serves as an image of him that I think an audience can accept.
A young boy working with him, seems wrong, I don't Nolan's Batman will be able to do that convincingly without people thinking he's a creep.

But an autonomous, strong woman, seems easier to accept; but That's only if I believed he had a choice in the matter. Robin is a choice, he trains Robin, brings him in, Catwoman exist without his consent and circumstances at the moment may prevent him from going after her because Bane is a larger issue.

That doesn't mean when its said and done, he won't do the right thing.

Which would make it all the more troubling that he decides in that time, with that type of foe, to relent and allow someone he barely knows to help. That's downright frightening.

This is a problem of "not knowing" I'm sure Nolan will show Catwoman's worth. Hell she may even have a better stand-point against Bane because he isn't expecting her...but none of us know.

Robin's training at least makes it more plausible that if Batman were to seek help, it would be from someone he trusts, took care of, and trained personally. I don't like Robin as a character much more than I do Catwoman, but I can at least see how Batman would eventually allow Robin to coexist with him.

Training him is far more complacent than not turning him in immediately.

I hope your right, and the gray area of Catwoman makes for something interesting, but I just hope they don't contradict the core values they equipped Bruce with in the first place. If including Robin goes against those values, allowing a woman who's a thief to run amok and "sometimes" help should fall along those same lines as well....

Nolan can craft a story, Catwoman will be a contention of his core values but, maybe that'll serve as to give him a new outlook. His current Batman serves as a failure (in my opinion) maybe this contention will make him "rise" and become the Batman we need to see.