The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!! - Part 1

[Paste Pot Pete]

i dont even want Dick Grayson. maybe a hint (like the ending in my signature below), but just adding the character seems like it could cause the entire movie to lose the purpose of Bruce Wayne's story and hand it over to Dick Grayson

Dick Grayson IS Bruce Wayne's story.

His parents were his past, Batman is his present, Dick Grayson is his future.

He's been proven that this isn't a gig that "ends". A guy like Bruce is going to have a contingency plan - someone to take up the fight when he's gone.

 

[Knight Rise]

Dick Grayson IS Bruce Wayne's story.

His parents were his past, Batman is his present, Dick Grayson is his future.

He's been proven that this isn't a gig that "ends". A guy like Bruce is going to have a contingency plan - someone to take up the fight when he's gone.

No, Dick Grayson is Batman's story. He carrys on the mantle of the Dark Knight. Actually, he does seperate into Nightwing so he loses the Batman persona for a while. Yeah, he does come back as Batman when Damian is Robin, but thats not for a long time. Bruce Wayne is seperate from Batman, which is why you focus on both personalities seperately

 

[regwec]

My argument seems perfectly clear to me, and to anyone with minimal interpretation skills. Plus taking a shot at punctuation here is one of the cheapest rethoric gimmicks. I don´t care for deliberately controversial either. We have people who make more noise than light here a dime a dozen.

I have excellent "interpretation skills", thanks, and I stear well clear of "rethoric (sic) gimmicks", whatever you might mean by that. I'm very sorry that you took my post so personally; I would have thought that, somewhere along your path toward 40,000 posts, you would have grown a thicker skin.

I actually think the biggest hurdle to adapting Dick Grayson to film is the fact he's called Dick.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

No, Dick Grayson is Batman's story. He carrys on the mantle of the Dark Knight. Actually, he does seperate into Nightwing so he loses the Batman persona for a while. Yeah, he does come back as Batman when Damian is Robin, but thats not for a long time. Bruce Wayne is seperate from Batman, which is why you focus on both personalities seperately

Bruce Wayne IS Batman.

Semantics, really?

If you can't see how Dick Grayson serves both Bruce Wayne AND Batman, as a surrogate son, a redemption, a way to positively influence the life of another vengeful young man, then...we're completely on different planets.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Also, since I've seen this before, I'd like to point out that the stupidest kind of Batman fan is the one that thinks superdickery.com is an objective opinion on Robin. That stupid, ******ed, moronic, imbecilic, idiotic, braindead sort is the kind I'll always love to bully until they cry for their mommies.

 

[Knight Rise]

Bruce Wayne IS Batman.

Semantics, really?

If you can't see how Dick Grayson serves both Bruce Wayne AND Batman, as a surrogate son, a redemption, a way to positively influence the life of another vengeful young man, then...we're completely on different planets.

If Nolan said that he was focusing on Bruce Wayne's story, that should tell you hes seperating their personalities because they are different. Heck, he already has trouble with Catwoman and getting over Rachel so i dont think he wants to bring in someone else in this series that he thinks he can lose. Hes already got a load from being hunted by the cops and people trying to find out who he really is. Both Batman and Bruce Wayne are struggling at the moment. Adding a character like Dick Grayson seems unnecessary and i see how Nolan says it doesnt seem like he would work in this era of Batman

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

Alright, forget it.

 

[the amazing fro]

I actually think the biggest hurdle to adapting Dick Grayson to film is the fact he's called Dick.

LOL this is true.

He's going to have to be called richard (perhaps dick once as a sort of in joke).

Unless he's Jason or Tim.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Not many, no. I own all the supposedly "essential" Batman graphic novels and quite a few comics featuring the Joker, along with The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told. I usually skip over any story that features Robin (unless TDKR counts).

Some folks are a lot more into the comic medium than I am and can accept a kid in a flamboyantly gay little costume fighting alongside the Dark Knight...but not me. A man dressed as a bat is pushing it, but his origin and the things he has overcome, the way he has pushed himself to the brink of what is humanly possible, and his freakish collection of enemy combatants makes it work. Robin makes it wreak of corny.

Having said all that, I'm not suggesting Robin could never work on film. I'm stating (emphatically) that he can not work in Nolan's trilogy. It won't happen, and shouldn't happen. Maybe if the next director embraces a more fantasy-based approach with super-powered characters Robin would fit right in...

Since you re a Batman fan you should try reading some more comics. You could try Robin Year One which is excellent and will perhaps make you like the character.

and I'll tell you, I met a girl at a gig and a party one new year, got on well with her, talked away and all that, then a few weeks later I was served by her at a bar and I did not recognise her at all cause she was wearing her glasses. They were quite distinctive glasses, thickish frames, coloured, quite trendy ones, the type that do transform your face a bit.

Her cleavage must have been awesome for you not to remember her face because of glasses.

 

[Mister H.]

Since you re a Batman fan you should try reading some more comics. You could try Robin Year One which is excellent and will perhaps make you like the character. Her cleavage must have been awesome for you not to remember her face because of glasses.

Or not. I've probably got about 30-40 Batman stories laying around, along with a couple seasons of BTAS, the Gotham Knight DVD, and both of Nolan's films. That's plenty of Batman for me. Please don't try to make it sound like you're cooler than me because you read more comic books. That could get kind of ugly. I like to hike, go camping, paint, write and record music, and shoot amateur films, plus I have a family, a full-time job, and am taking classes two nights a week, so reading comics isn't real high on my priority list. Sorry.

And no, that doesn't make my opinion on what Nolan is doing with his Batman films any less valid than yours. Actually, I think I've got my finger right on the pulse of what he is doing, where as you seem to think including Robin in his continuity would be a good idea, so maybe its the other way around.

 

[regwec]

Was he trying to make it sound like he is "cooler" than you? I think he was merely making the obvious point that your basis for rejecting the character is poorly rooted, if you have little idea what the character is about.

That doesn't make you uncool, nor does it invalidate your implausibly worthy hobbies.

 

[Secret Fawful]

Or not. I've probably got about 30-40 Batman stories laying around, along with a couple seasons of BTAS, the Gotham Knight DVD, and both of Nolan's films. That's plenty of Batman for me. Please don't try to make it sound like you're cooler than me because you read more comic books. That could get kind of ugly. I like to hike, go camping, paint, write and record music, and shoot amateur films, plus I have a family, a full-time job, and am taking classes two nights a week, so reading comics isn't real high on my priority list. Sorry.

And no, that doesn't make my opinion on what Nolan is doing with his Batman films any less valid than yours. Actually, I think I've got my finger right on the pulse of what he is doing, where as you seem to think including Robin in his continuity would be a good idea, so maybe its the other way around.

Yeah, that's all nice and all. By which I mean it means as much as horse ****, since you still don't understand the character of Robin, so can't give an tolerable objective opinion on the matter. That's what makes your opinion less valid. You have to give something a chance before you can just crap on it. You've admitted you've done nothing of the sort. Also you called Robin's costume gay to try to insult it, which is not only a stupid insult from a neanderthal mind, but nothing about Robin's costume has been remotely ugly or unfit to our modern era for the past thirty years. I might not have a family, a high amount of fitness and exercise, a job, write music, or any of that stupid crap (ain't I nice?), but I sure understand the character of Robin a whole hell of a lot better than you do, which is all that matters in this topic. Perhaps you can lord over our massive ignorance in a topic regarding music and family, but here, it's the other way around. However, lording isn't what matters. What matters is discussing something and knowing what you're discussing, which isn't the case here, and that fricking ticks me off. So I guess what I'm trying to say is get some facts or get the facts out.

 

[Colonel Kurtz]

If you think of every Nolan batfilm as a year, TDKR would take place during year three. This is about the same time Dark Victory takes place for post-crisis batman. It would be fantastic to see Robin done properly on film, but the pessimist in me knows that it's nothing more than a fleeting dream.

Robin won't appear in the movie because the character isn't realistic, it's because Nolan simply doesn't want him in his franchise. I'm guessing, like I said before, it's a fear of the Schumacher films and the Adam West days. It's a shame, Robin is such an essential part of the Batman mythos.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Her cleavage must have been awesome for you not to remember her face because of glasses.

She actually thought I was trying to act 'cool' and aloof, and that's why I didn't say hello, but I'm not like that at all, i will say hello, throw my jacket over a puddle and all that gentlemenly crap. But I was quite glad it happened as it made me more able to buy into the Clark Kent disguise, in fact i think i may even have said this to her.

I will have to check out Robin yr one, the last Robin solo comic i bought was the limited series with the Brian Bolland covers back in the early 90s, i don't even recall what they were about, I might dig them out for a read tonight.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

My main issue, and that's not to say people around here, is that nine times out of ten, the "argument" (and I use that term loosely) against Robin amounts to little more than childish insults, homophobia, and otherwise close-mindedness.

It's fine if you think he simply wouldn't fit into the story, or you prefer a solo Batman. But it so often gets so ugly and mean-spirited whenever Robin is even mentioned.

And yeah, that includes Christian Bale. Brilliant actor, and seems like a cool guy, but his comments on Robin border on immature and ignorant. Crapping on the hard work of 70 years worth of quality writing isn't cool. I think "not my cup of tea" would suffice.

 

[Thebumwhowalks]

Robin won't appear in the movie because the character isn't realistic, it's because Nolan simply doesn't want him in his franchise. I'm guessing, like I said before, it's a fear of the Schumacher films and the Adam West days. It's a shame, Robin is such an essential part of the Batman mythos.

I don't think Nolan would let any of those previous incarnations stop him from tackling the character if he had a good approach of his own.
No-one outside of fandom automatically thinks Robin is crap because of those old films, just as they don't think Batman is automatically crap because he was represented onscreen not too well in the past.

and you know what, BF was a pretty decent Batman and Robin film, and the 60s Robin had his moments too, that bit in the 60s film when he is running down the waterfront dock looking for Batman with the rockin' music playing, cool as ****, looks like a real superhero in the real world in that moment. He also had some real good moments in the tv show apart from all the 'holy this, holy that' gags, he was always actually quite gung ho for a fight and cool with it.
I think Robin has a decent enough rep in the public eye, 'normal' folk just think, 'oh, he's Batman's crime fighting sidekick'. If he was announced as being in the new film, i think a lot of people would be very intrigued, just as they were when BF was coming out in '95.

 

[DaveMoral]

^Yeah, there is no barrier to Robin being in any film. The vast majority of the publicthing "Batman" and tend to join him with Robin. It's pop culture. You're never going to be able to seperate Batman from Robin for very long. Comics realized that pretty damn quickly. Fans didn't hate Robin and vote for Robin's death in 88, they voted for Jason Todd's death. Jason Todd was, and still is, a dick. But he's no Dick.

Tim Drake has been the best Robin IMO. I still can't stand Damian Wayne and hope Morrison gets around to making that kid human instead of a prepubescent psycho ninja.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Or not. I've probably got about 30-40 Batman stories laying around, along with a couple seasons of BTAS, the Gotham Knight DVD, and both of Nolan's films. That's plenty of Batman for me. Please don't try to make it sound like you're cooler than me because you read more comic books. That could get kind of ugly. I like to hike, go camping, paint, write and record music, and shoot amateur films, plus I have a family, a full-time job, and am taking classes two nights a week, so reading comics isn't real high on my priority list. Sorry.

And no, that doesn't make my opinion on what Nolan is doing with his Batman films any less valid than yours. Actually, I think I've got my finger right on the pulse of what he is doing, where as you seem to think including Robin in his continuity would be a good idea, so maybe its the other way around.

I wasnt trying to be cool. It sounds like you lead a full life and congrats for that, i was just saying that you re judging a character you know little about and it would help if you gave some comics a try every now and then.

For example i was a die hard Bat-loner fan myself until i watched the JL animated series which broadened my bat horizons, so perhaps reading some good comics with Robin would help you out. Its easy to hate on him just because he's a kid with a flamboyant costume in the oh so dark batman universe.

My main issue, and that's not to say people around here, is that nine times out of ten, the "argument" (and I use that term loosely) against Robin amounts to little more than childish insults, homophobia, and otherwise close-mindedness.

It's fine if you think he simply wouldn't fit into the story, or you prefer a solo Batman. But it so often gets so ugly and mean-spirited whenever Robin is even mentioned.

And yeah, that includes Christian Bale. Brilliant actor, and seems like a cool guy, but his comments on Robin border on immature and ignorant. Crapping on the hard work of 70 years worth of quality writing isn't cool. I think "not my cup of tea" would suffice.

I completely agree. Unfortunately 2 posts later they will start doing it again.

I still can't stand Damian Wayne and hope Morrison gets around to making that kid human instead of a prepubescent psycho ninja.

Its a work in progress. Read Morrison's B&R, Batman #703, the latest Batgirl issue, and other comic books where he appears and you ll see that.

 

[regwec]

I agree with that. I think Robin is controversial within the Batman fanbase; the rest of humanity just thinks he is a bit of light relief, which is not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[Mister H.]

Yeah, that's all nice and all. By which I mean it means as much as horse ****, since you still don't understand the character of Robin, so can't give an tolerable objective opinion on the matter. That's what makes your opinion less valid. You have to give something a chance before you can just crap on it. You've admitted you've done nothing of the sort. Also you called Robin's costume gay to try to insult it, which is not only a stupid insult from a neanderthal mind, but nothing about Robin's costume has been remotely ugly or unfit to our modern era for the past thirty years. I might not have a family, a high amount of fitness and exercise, a job, write music, or any of that stupid crap (ain't I nice?), but I sure understand the character of Robin a whole hell of a lot better than you do, which is all that matters in this topic. Perhaps you can lord over our massive ignorance in a topic regarding music and family, but here, it's the other way around. However, lording isn't what matters. What matters is discussing something and knowing what you're discussing, which isn't the case here, and that fricking ticks me off. So I guess what I'm trying to say is get some facts or get the facts out.

Wow, that's really something man. I bet your parents are proud.

And for the record, I understand Robin's character just fine. Don't act as if I know nothing about the character-- it's not rocket science. I've given him his chance and was turned off by the character, which is why I skip over stories that feature him, as I said. I don't need to have read every Robin-centric adventure to make a judgment as to whether he works for me or not. Solo Batman is the way to go.

His fans believe he can bring out a missing element in Bruce, something more to live for than beating up criminals. That Robin can give Batman's life a deeper meaning, and that he sees himself in Dick Grayson and can maybe be a stablizing force in his life, while steering him towards the right way to do things if he insists on following in his footsteps. I'm sure I've left some things out, as no two people interpret things identically, but that's the way I see their side of the argument. My point is, that isn't the least bit interesting to me. I don't need to see that in a Nolan film, and thank goodness Nolan feels the same way.

And SecretFawful, you really need to loosen up. I'd be embarassed if I were you and I re-read that last post. Thumping your chest and trying to run me off because you think you have a deeper understanding of the multi-faceted and mind-bending complexity of the "Boy Wonder" than I do? Come on man.

 

[Mister H.]

My main issue, and that's not to say people around here, is that nine times out of ten, the "argument" (and I use that term loosely) against Robin amounts to little more than childish insults, homophobia, and otherwise close-mindedness.

It's fine if you think he simply wouldn't fit into the story, or you prefer a solo Batman. But it so often gets so ugly and mean-spirited whenever Robin is even mentioned.

And yeah, that includes Christian Bale. Brilliant actor, and seems like a cool guy, but his comments on Robin border on immature and ignorant. Crapping on the hard work of 70 years worth of quality writing isn't cool. I think "not my cup of tea" would suffice.

I'm not the least bit homphobic, I have co-workers and casual friends that are gay, and would say the same thing about Robin in their presence. I'm also not close-minded-- far, far from it.

Part of the reason things get "mean-spirited" is the condescending attitude some Batfans take towards other Batfans that don't like Robin. If I were to say I don't like Penguin, Black Mask, or the Riddler, few would blink an eye. But Catwoman and Robin bashing will get you in hot water real quick. I know, I know, it's because they are so important to the mythos...yada, yada, yada.

 

[regwec]

To be honest, you do actually seem quite ignorant. Robin isn't your thing, and you can't be bothered to read up on him in order to see if your mind might be changed. Fair enough...but is this the right thread for you?

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well since this thread is going to hell, i might as well pass the time with jokes.



Hello, posters, look at Robin. Now back to Batman, now back at Robin, now back to Batman. Sadly he isn’t Batman, but if Batman got zapped by the Omega Sanction he could be.
Look down, back up. Where are you? You are in a cave with the Batman you dream of. What’s in your hand, back at me, I have it, it’s an oyster with two tickets to that Zorro movie you love. Look again, Batman's parents are now dead!


Everything is possible when you read comics. I’m in a flying batmobile.

 

[Mister H.]

edited

 

[Mister H.]

To be honest, you do actually seem quite ignorant. Robin isn't your thing, and you can't be bothered to read up on him in order to see if your mind might be changed. Fair enough...but is this the right thread for you?

I just wrote two fairly lenghty, honest, and civil posts about why I don't care to see Robin in a Nolan Bat-film, and your response is that I'm "ignorant"? Wow, I always thought you were one of the better posters around here, but that's pretty lame.

Again, how many chances must one give to a fictional character before they realize they aren't interested in what they have to offer? I "get" Robin, it's not complicated, I just don't see the fascination. These suggestions that I know nothing about Robin are hogwash. I just explained that I get why his fans long for his inclusion, and understand their arguments a few post back. I, personally, don't care for the character or what he brings to the mythos. I'm not accusing him of being comic relief, I just don't find him interesting and he doesn't belong in Nolan's continuity.

As I said several posts ago, in a different director's hands, he may work. In a Batman film that featured the more larger than life characters like Poison Ivy, Clayface, or Mr. Freeze, I think Robin could be used to good effect. Just not now.

I think my comment about his gay costume has created some real animosity towards me, and I apologize. Just know that the vast majority of folks around the world make the same kinds of comments about Robin, and I dind't think it was out there enough to cause such anger. His costume is very silly, but that's not the reason for my disinterest. Repeating myself here-- I prefer a Batman lurks in the shadows, investigates crime scenes, and pulvarizes criminals alone. Justify Robin any way you want, it isn't going to change the way I feel about the Batman and his methods.