The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!! - Part 1

[Mr. Earle]

Robin isnt the prominent element in Dark Victory, mobsters are. At least that's what i remember of it because half way through i wanted to shoot myself from boredom.

 

[regwec]

I quite liked Dark Victory as a simple page-turner. It's really more about the atmosphere that Tim Sale creates with the artwork, though.

 

[regwec]

I just wanted to give you Robin haters some seizures. Enjoy:

And yeah there are two Batmen in that pic. Problem?

It's funny; i am no particular fan of Nightwing, but without Dick in that costume, it occurs to me that there is a major slice of Batman's history missing in this picture.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well Dick is still there, just in a different costume.

Btw, Jason's helmet is pretty nice there. For once it doesnt look like a lipstick or worse...

 

[regwec]

You don't like the dog's cock helmet?

 

[CyclopsSummers]

Yes i want Dick Grayson!

 

[Mr. Earle]

You don't like the dog's cock helmet?

OMG.... I cant unsee it now... Damn you Regwec!

 

[Godzilla2014]

I have no problem with Dick Grayson, but Robin doesn't really work well to me. He undermines Batman's efforts to scare the criminal underworld, which Batman relies on to be effective.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Going by Nolan batman isnt scary anymore, so problem solved.

 

[Godzilla2014]

Going by Nolan batman isnt scary anymore, so problem solved.

And a boy wearing a red costume who blows his cover doesn't help matters.

 

[Mr. Earle]

If he cared about cover he would have killed the lights of his own penthouse. Again, problem solved.

 

[Godzilla2014]

If he cared about cover he would have killed the lights of his own penthouse. Again, problem solved.

What the hell would be the point of killing the lights in his own penthouse? That would just announce to the Joker that he has arrived.
Plus, why does Robin wear a domino mask when Batman wears a cowl to protect his identity and his head? I don't know if that could be changed and he still look like Robin.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I have no problem with Dick Grayson, but Robin doesn't really work well to me. He undermines Batman's efforts to scare the criminal underworld, which Batman relies on to be effective.

Robin is a thematic element in Batman, because he is integral piece of Batman slowly reconstructing a make-shift family throughout his life. He also sees himself in Robin, and is trying to save him from being swallowed up by the world that took his parents. As far as I'm concerned, while maybe not appropriate for a particular film, Robin is inseprable from a Batman trilogy.

This opinion that he cheapens Batman's ability to strike fear into the hearts of criminals seems silly to me. The premise of Batman is not overwhelmingly realistic to begin with. If Christian Bale ran up to me wearing the Batman Begins suit I'd likely start laughing, thank God for the magic of cinema.

 

[Mr. Earle]

We re talking about a movie where the protagonist dresses like a bat and fights crime. You seem to be forgetting that.

Anyhow, you might not want to watch Green Lantern. He is wearing a domino mask. I can still tell that its Hal (Ryan) but its a movie so i can suspend my disbelief.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

The domino mask ironically was invented for theater. It's used for characters who are supposedly concealing their identity. In live theater it's impossible to emote while wearing a full face mask, this is why the Phantom of the Opera wears a half-mask, so that the actor can show the audience he's [attempting to] hide his face while still being able to use a full range of facial expressions.

 

[Godzilla2014]

We re talking about a movie where the protagonist dresses like a bat and fights crime. You seem to be forgetting that.

Anyhow, you might not want to watch Green Lantern. He is wearing a domino mask. I can still tell that its Hal (Ryan) but its a movie so i can suspend my disbelief.

You're missing my point. I'm not necessarily talking about realism. I am talking about internal logic.
Why does Robin not need the same protection on his head as Batman does? Why is he named after a ****ing robin, one of the least threatening or scary birds I can think of? Why not just call him Batboy or something? What the hell does Robin contribute to the effectiveness of Batman's war on crime?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

You're missing my point. I'm not necessarily talking about realism. I am talking about internal logic.
Why does Robin not need the same protection on his head as Batman does? Why is he named after a ****ing robin, one of the least threatening or scary birds I can think of? Why not just call him Batboy or something? What the hell does Robin contribute to the effectiveness of Batman's war on crime?

I think I addressed all this in my previous two posts.

Why does Robin not need the same protection on his head as Batman does?

Because he doesn't, and hasn't, for 70 flipping years, next question...

Why is he named after a ****ing robin, one of the least threatening or scary birds I can think of?

Because that's his name and has been for 70 flipping years...next question...

What the hell does Robin contribute to the effectiveness of Batman's war on crime?

How does dressing like a bat and patroling rooftops and alleyways contribute to Batman's war on crime? Those things are ineffective for both finding crime and stopping criminals. Batman is, after all, a ficticious character who lives in a world where villains are stupid enough to leave very loud and easy to follow trails that reveal their villainous plot just in time for the authorities to stop them. Robin existed and was created to contribute to the story of Batman, not because it was more realistic for him to have a kid sidekick.

 

[Mr. Earle]

You're missing my point. I'm not necessarily talking about realism. I am talking about internal logic.
Why does Robin not need the same protection on his head as Batman does? Why is he named after a ****ing robin, one of the least threatening or scary birds I can think of? Why not just call him Batboy or something? What the hell does Robin contribute to the effectiveness of Batman's war on crime?

Even in the nolanverse Batman is very unrealistic, or should i say realistic only when it suits the purpose of the source material or Nolan's plot. Nolan can be pedantic on certain details and ignore others (exposed mouth, impractical cape, etc) because it suits him.

Why does Robin dress like that? Because he's the goddamn Robin and he can dress however he likes. Its not like Batman blends that well with his jigsaw pieces and all. As for the name, i think its his stage name when he was in the Flying Graysons. Either that or the nickname his family used to call him by.

Also, watch Young Justice where Robin really is like a mini-Batman (he even does the disappearing act, adding a laugh that makes it even creepier), except in costume. Even so his cape is black on the outside so i bet he can blend in the shadows if he cloaks himself with it.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

You're missing my point. I'm not necessarily talking about realism. I am talking about internal logic.
Why does Robin not need the same protection on his head as Batman does?

Because Robin doesn't go out into direct gunfire like Batman does. Once Batman takes out the biggest threat, Robin joins in, distracting them while Batman gets his job done easier.

Why is he named after a ****ing robin, one of the least threatening or scary birds I can think of? Why not just call him Batboy or something?

Bruce called himself Batman because of the fear that led to his parent's death. That is what haunts him. Dick called himself Robin as a reminder of his parent's undying love. That is what inspires him.

What the hell does Robin contribute to the effectiveness of Batman's war on crime?

He helps promote the fear. For those who start to see Bruce as a man he then drafts an unaging "Laughing Devil" child who beats up your friends, he brings hellspawn with him that masquerades with the name of a harmless bird.

But on the practical point. How does anyone help Bruce? Why have Alfred or Gordon or Fox?

 

[Mr. Earle]

Bruce called himself Batman because of the fear that led to his parent's death. That is what haunts him. Dick called himself Robin as a reminder of his parent's undying love. That is what inspires him.

I always knew that Dick dealt with his tragedy in a different way but i never thought of this. Nice!

But on the practical point. How does anyone help Bruce? Why have Alfred or Gordon or Fox?

Batman needs to eat some "suppah" from time to time.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

I always knew that Dick dealt with his tragedy in a different way but i never thought of this. Nice!

I try. In fact I may just put it in my sig.

Batman needs to eat some "suppah" from time to time.

Of course!

 

[Godzilla2014]

I think I addressed all this in my previous two posts.

Well, I disagree about them being inseparable. Many of my favorite Batman stories in comics, film, and animation don't have Robin in them, so I have no problem with excluding him. What place does Robin have in gritty crime dramas like the Nolan Batman films?

Because he doesn't, and hasn't, for 70 flipping years, next question...


Because that's his name and has been for 70 flipping years...next question...

Both of these "answers" amount to, "because that's the way it is and has been for 70 years", which only succeeds in creating an endless loop of questions and non-answers. It's pretty much like restating the question.

How does dressing like a bat and patroling rooftops and alleyways contribute to Batman's war on crime? Those things are ineffective for both finding crime and stopping criminals. Batman is, after all, a ficticious character who lives in a world where villains are stupid enough to leave very loud and easy to follow trails that reveal their villainous plot just in time for the authorities to stop them. Robin existed and was created to contribute to the story of Batman, not because it was more realistic for him to have a kid sidekick.

I can buy that Batman is as scary as he is, but why would he need a partner who is seemingly intentionally non-threatening.

Even in the nolanverse Batman is very unrealistic, or should i say realistic only when it suits the purpose of the source material or Nolan's plot. Nolan can be pedantic on certain details and ignore others (exposed mouth, impractical cape, etc) because it suits him.

Generally, Nolan sought to justify those things, and he did.

Why does Robin dress like that? Because he's the goddamn Robin and he can dress however he likes.

Ok. So why does he choose that specifically?

Its not like Batman blends that well with his jigsaw pieces and all. As for the name, i think its his stage name when he was in the Flying Graysons. Either that or the nickname his family used to call him by.

I don't really understand the whole nickname thing. It just raises the question of the origin of the nickname. Why would he be associated with a robin, instead of an eagle or something?

Also, watch Young Justice where Robin really is like a mini-Batman (he even does the disappearing act, adding a laugh that makes it even creepier), except in costume. Even so his cape is black on the outside so i bet he can blend in the shadows if he cloaks himself with it.

I haven't seen the show, so no comment. As for adding the laugh, doesn't that make it kind of pointless? Isn't the whole point that by the time you see that Batman has disappeared, he's already gone?

Because Robin doesn't go out into direct gunfire like Batman does. Once Batman takes out the biggest threat, Robin joins in, distracting them while Batman gets his job done easier.



Bruce called himself Batman because of the fear that led to his parent's death. That is what haunts him. Dick called himself Robin as a reminder of his parent's undying love. That is what inspires him.



He helps promote the fear. For those who start to see Bruce as a man he then drafts an unaging "Laughing Devil" child who beats up your friends, he brings hellspawn with him that masquerades with the name of a harmless bird.

Holy ****, an actual answer! Thanks! Now its starting to make some sense.

But on the practical point. How does anyone help Bruce? Why have Alfred or Gordon or Fox?

Alfred is the butler, so he does plenty. Gordon gives him assistance in the police department. Fox provides the technology he uses.

 

[Pagan]

Robin doesn't work. Nolan knows better. Catwoman makes for a more believable ally.

 

[Mr. Earle]

It shows how much you know when you re labeling Catwoman as an ally. But dont let your ignorance of the characters stop you.

 

[The Joker]

But Catwoman has been an ally many times to Batman. Even before Hush. I like her better as a villain, or trouble maker for Batman, but she has had her fair share of being a goodie stories.