Official Relationship Thread: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[Anita18]

She'll hold my hand. She'll let me give her a massage, and will occassionally ask for one. We sleep in the same bed and she'll snuggle up to me. And today when she got home, I just started kissing her, and she responded.

Intimacy in general is nice, but its just not enough. About a week ago, I gave her a massage, and it ended up getting hot and heavy, and as we were getting into it, she had a panic attack, which is finally what prompted the talk. She claims nothing major is wrong, that she's not cheating on me, and that there's not something she needs from me that she's not getting.

It could honestly be any number of things. She's given me about 20 different reasons for it over the last few months. And I've tried pretty much everything at this point, except for the overly gushy, obvious "romantic" stuff (which she doesn't really like). I'm always, always, always the one who initiates anything, and it just seems like whatever happens, she rejects me if it goes too far. This is an intelligent grown woman with experience, who was very open-minded and enjoyed sex when we began dating, and for a year after. It's incredibly frustrating.

The only other thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is inexperience in living together. From what I've heard, when couples move in together, it can be a very trying time. Moving in together is almost like getting married, because there is a HUGE amount of commitment involved. It could be scaring her, thinking that she's stuck with you even though you're not married.

Even my friends who were high school sweethearts and lasted 4 years long-distance across states, almost broke up for good when they first lived together. It makes me think that my fiance and I must be the luckiest or most compatible couple in existence, since our transition from long-distance to living in the same damn studio apartment was beyond smooth.

This may be "professional therapist" realm, to get at what's really bothering her. Getting a panic attack when getting intimate is something serious, and the issue is definitely not obvious, if she was open-minded before.

 

[Erzengel]

You really don't know someone until you are actually living with them. It's almost like a switch for some people. I guess you can chalk it up to the whole compatibility aspect of a relationship.

 

[The Guard]

The only other thing I can think of that hasn't been mentioned is inexperience in living together. From what I've heard, when couples move in together, it can be a very trying time. Moving in together is almost like getting married, because there is a HUGE amount of commitment involved. It could be scaring her, thinking that she's stuck with you even though you're not married.

We were more or less living together for about eight or nine months prior to really moving in together.

 

[Anita18]

We were more or less living together for about eight or nine months prior to really moving in together.

Still not the same as signing both your names on the lease, and coming home to you because she quite literally has nowhere else to go....

 

[The Guard]

I guess not.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I just Christened the new home, so to speak.

It's kind of sad, actually. I witnessed a man get ejected from a jeep in a fatal car accident when a girl with two DUIs went across the median and hit them head on. Turned out the next day I knew both the victims. One survived and was placed in ICU (got out today), the other did not. I'd never really seen a man get killed, it was pretty gruesome even when I didn't think I knew who it was. He was just turned into a bloody mess as I passed.

So naturally, people found out. Being the first witness, I was interviewed about it yesterday by the press. I might even be asked for witness testimony, who knows?

Anyways, someone I knew. Definitely a sympathy f***, but I guess I needed a good day so I got one.

 

[Nave 'Torment']

Anita, you always do have the right things to say I actually feel more hopeful after reading your posts. Thanks.

I needed that.

 

[Erzengel]

:haha: so essentially you're giving me a non-answer. But I get what you're trying to say here. "Unstable" people, that's another term I keep hearing and can't really find a specific definition for.

I guess what I'm trying to say it really depends on what you are looking for.

Before I was exclusive, I was having fun not being exclusive. It kinda stopped being fun, when feelings started getting involved.

 

[Bruce Banner]

So I haven't been around the hype lately, traveling around the country, class and dealing with my best female friend of 5 years and the drama the both of us have. Sorry for this long story.

For previous reference to this awful story so I don't have to rewrite it all: See pages 11 and 12.

I didn't sleep with Jillian, I said that it was ridiculous that we even let ourselves keep talking about it. She agreed. This was November. I still said that she should consider calling off the engagement, not because of me, but because she obviously needs to get her head in the right place. She says I'm acting like an ***hole with the way I'm going about it and I need to let it go. I'm unconvinced. Meanwhile she was also getting possessive over me and how I go to hang out with other people to break out of my shell some more.

The end of the semester rolls around early December and I don't think I can deal with it anymore. She comes to visit me on campus, I give her her Christmas gifts early and then tell her I'm not going to be around a lot, what she was doing to Chris(the marine) and I wasn't fair and that when she figures it out to call me. She breaks down crying (first time I've seen her do that in 5 years), she thinks I'm abandoning her, I tell her I'm not but I'm not going to torture myself either. I say she was using me for the attention since all she had outside of me as a friend that was close was her future in-laws. She looks shaken and makes her case, acknowledging my longtime emotional detachment issues and that I need to start having faith in people and act as if she has grown up in five years. After talking for several hours with her, I decide to actually try to take a leap of faith and let it go...

A week later we're after having dinner and on way to take her back home, she goes through my Iphone, through my text messages with the who I'm talking to currently, someone I can see she was jealous over and starts playfully fighting with me too the point it's downright flirty, my guard painfully goes up again.

I meet her coworkers a few days later for drinks, they say she talks about Chris and I all the time, I smile and be polite. Jillian thinks I'm being quiet and gets me to tell her stories of how we met (which makes her look awesome really), then she gets slightly flirty with this half wit, right in front of me after she used as her add agency basically. I get suspicious, she wonders why I'm getting quiet. After we left she then brings up my gift from her pocket a week ago trying to back away from her, starts getting playfully guilt trip me again and basically gets all physical with me when I snatch it from her. I tell her no never mess with my head like you did months prior again. "She says she can't promise what she'll do." I say nothing, my cynicism cranks into overdrive...

A week later she calls me up on December 21rst, asks where I'm at, telling me to meet her in the city. I predict what my gut tells me... I get there to my favorite Bar and she is with two coworkers. She tells me she is calling off the wedding. Says she is a commitment phobe and says "Congrats, you were right again, a ****ing genius." I tell her I should go, I go to leave and she gets ****** and says "She's so glad you value out friendship, Alfred." My blood boils over. I say I don't want to be around to see you disrespect your fiance or me for that matter all because she wants to act like a **ore again. She starts crying again and tells me to leave. I ask her why, she doesn't give an answer. I ask about the stuff with me, she looks up at me holding back more tears saying "Don't go there. Don't go there. Don't go there." I look over at the half wit and she says "The straw that broke the camels back."

I leave the bar and fly across country to Seattle, having reckless fun and exercising my liver and this crap has been on my mind ever since. Engagement is off, they split up, she told the Marine I had feelings for her grew to more than a friend, his family thinks we were having an affair. She hangs out with her coworkers now and is moving. We barely have spoken. The Marine got a job in D.C. and as of two days ago is dating a high school friend.

 

[grout]

I have no idea why this thread reminds me of a Chris Rock stand up he did. Chris rock brings up the age old question "what do women want?" the answer is "everything".

Please dont jump on me,,, its not how I think, it just reminds me of that stand up special he did.

 

[Erzengel]

It does seem that you were an emotional blanket with her. She could obviously have her relationship with her (ex) finance, you and flirt with other guys, but I'm sure if you even talked to another girl with her nearby, she'd flip out.

While you do have some trust issues, this girl doesn't seem to be the right girl to help you with those issues. She has a ton of growing up to do and I'm sure when she rehashes the story, the blame will be mostly on you.

 

[Frodo]

The girl sounds like a nightmare and total trouble. .

 

[Bruce Banner]

She has more guys as friends than female friends. In retrospect, it just feels like a major insecurity, attention seeking behavior. If this was anyone else, I would have walked away from it earlier when I smelled trouble, It's just profoundly messed up my head because outside of my Irish wingman from my childhood, she was closest to me.

Over the years and seeing her break off with people and friends before. She would burn all bridges and cut off all contact with people involved. She has been txting me when I was out of town. Then admitted to playing phone chicken and waiting for me to contact her. Saying we can try to hang out again. I said that I have a hard time trusting her at her word. She says that she is sick of my negativity and lack of trust. Saying that what lead us here was a long line of unfortunate events and misunderstandings. But hasn't been "ready" to talk to me.

I felt used as a friend more than anything, because as soon as she met all her new coworkers and no longer had just the fiance or in-laws, it seemed like my feelings were irrelevant.

Says that she "thinks" that I got in her head when she was working out her feelings for Chris. And that I wasn't the reason for the split and for me to get that thought out of my head. Then saying that the coworker was a another reminder that (like me) there were more fitting options out there and she impulsively rushed into things with her fiance. She says that she has been "honest" with me the whole time. Okay... fine..., even if she is, it doesn't mean her opinion won't drastically change by the following week. She got ****** when I asked if she acted on anything with anyone and she says "No, but thanks for insinuating I'm a **ore again. I've grown out of that behavior." They're "just friends" that she can go and drink and get baked with. And saying that she wasn't jealous of anyone I hung out with. I called bull**** and have saved the text messages of her admitting enough (she doesn't know that).

The one time I've seen her since I got home, was an awkward 10 minutes that didn't go over well. Then again, she didn't have to see me, but there she was, uncomfortable as hell. Talking has been iffy. Last week I left a message saying that if she didn't "really" want to mend things then just let me get my stuff back and leave it at that, I made an effort to fix things, but there is a fine line between making an effort and coming off pathetic. She says "I got your message, let me move in to my new place and settled into my new life and I'll text you."

You are right, I have trust issues, always have, this hasn't helped. Not mainly because of my own insecurities but I simply think a majority of the people I meet are ****s, so why bother risking it? I've been seeing other people (Seattle was awesome for that) and dating to distract myself, but my mind keeps obsessively harping on all this.

What's probably gonna happen here? Either way it's not going to be what it once was. Walls gotta go back up.

The girl sounds like a nightmare and total trouble. .

Yeah. Been having reoccurring dreams about this crap so you're not far off.

 

[Anita18]

I just Christened the new home, so to speak.

It's kind of sad, actually. I witnessed a man get ejected from a jeep in a fatal car accident when a girl with two DUIs went across the median and hit them head on. Turned out the next day I knew both the victims. One survived and was placed in ICU (got out today), the other did not. I'd never really seen a man get killed, it was pretty gruesome even when I didn't think I knew who it was. He was just turned into a bloody mess as I passed.

So naturally, people found out. Being the first witness, I was interviewed about it yesterday by the press. I might even be asked for witness testimony, who knows?

Anyways, someone I knew. Definitely a sympathy f***, but I guess I needed a good day so I got one.

Egads.

My sister saw a guy get hit by a truck at a bus stop and fly through a glass door when she was on her way to work. If she hadn't had a dentist appointment that morning, she could have been standing right where he was. When they went out for lunch that day, there was still blood in the doorway. The guy lived, though. It was traumatizing.

Not sure if she got a sympathy f*** when she got home that day, though...

Anita, you always do have the right things to say I actually feel more hopeful after reading your posts. Thanks.

I needed that.

You mostly worry too much, Nave.

It does seem that you were an emotional blanket with her. She could obviously have her relationship with her (ex) finance, you and flirt with other guys, but I'm sure if you even talked to another girl with her nearby, she'd flip out.

While you do have some trust issues, this girl doesn't seem to be the right girl to help you with those issues. She hasa ton of growing up to do and I'm sure when she rehashes the story, the blame will be mostly on you.

Seriously. She teases people, she's immature, she doesn't know what she wants and blames other people when she doesn't get what she doesn't know she wants. You're really better off without her. Harsh, but it's true. Even though you had good times together, you know who your real friends are when the going gets tough.

You are right, I have trust issues, always have, this hasn't helped. Not mainly because of my own insecurities but I simply think a majority of the people I meet are ****s, so why bother risking it? I've been seeing other people (Seattle was awesome for that) and dating to distract myself, but my mind keeps obsessively harping on all this.

What's probably gonna happen here? Either way it's not going to be what it once was. Walls gotta go back up.

Anybody would have trust issues if they had friends like Jillian. Truly trustworthy folks don't ASK them to trust you - they prove it by BEING TRUSTWORTHY. It goes both ways. If trust is one-sided, it's called getting taken for a ride.

You say you're insecure too, which is why all these shady characters glomp onto you.

 

[Frodo]

She has more guys as friends than female friends. In retrospect, it just feels like a major insecurity, attention seeking behavior. If this was anyone else, I would have walked away from it earlier when I smelled trouble, It's just profoundly messed up my head because outside of my Irish wingman from my childhood, she was closest to me.

Over the years and seeing her break off with people and friends before. She would burn all bridges and cut off all contact with people involved. She has been txting me when I was out of town. Then admitted to playing phone chicken and waiting for me to contact her. Saying we can try to hang out again. I said that I have a hard time trusting her at her word. She says that she is sick of my negativity and lack of trust. Saying that what lead us here was a long line of unfortunate events and misunderstandings. But hasn't been "ready" to talk to me.

I felt used as a friend more than anything, because as soon as she met all her new coworkers and no longer had just the fiance or in-laws, it seemed like my feelings were irrelevant.

Says that she "thinks" that I got in her head when she was working out her feelings for Chris. And that I wasn't the reason for the split and for me to get that thought out of my head. Then saying that the coworker was a another reminder that (like me) there were more fitting options out there and she impulsively rushed into things with her fiance. She says that she has been "honest" with me the whole time. Okay... fine..., even if she is, it doesn't mean her opinion won't drastically change by the following week. She got ****** when I asked if she acted on anything with anyone and she says "No, but thanks for insinuating I'm a **ore again. I've grown out of that behavior." They're "just friends" that she can go and drink and get baked with. And saying that she wasn't jealous of anyone I hung out with. I called bull**** and have saved the text messages of her admitting enough (she doesn't know that).

The one time I've seen her since I got home, was an awkward 10 minutes that didn't go over well. Then again, she didn't have to see me, but there she was, uncomfortable as hell. Talking has been iffy. Last week I left a message saying that if she didn't "really" want to mend things then just let me get my stuff back and leave it at that, I made an effort to fix things, but there is a fine line between making an effort and coming off pathetic. She says "I got your message, let me move in to my new place and settled into my new life and I'll text you."

You are right, I have trust issues, always have, this hasn't helped. Not mainly because of my own insecurities but I simply think a majority of the people I meet are ****s, so why bother risking it? I've been seeing other people (Seattle was awesome for that) and dating to distract myself, but my mind keeps obsessively harping on all this.

What's probably gonna happen here? Either way it's not going to be what it once was. Walls gotta go back up.



Yeah. Been having reoccurring dreams about this crap so you're not far off.

Well needless to say, you're better off without her. The fact that she keeps trying to get in touch with you instead of just giving up gives off a kinda creepy / clingy vibe. Just make sure she doesn't go all Glen Close on you.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Egads.

My sister saw a guy get hit by a truck at a bus stop and fly through a glass door when she was on her way to work. If she hadn't had a dentist appointment that morning, she could have been standing right where he was. When they went out for lunch that day, there was still blood in the doorway. The guy lived, though. It was traumatizing.

Not sure if she got a sympathy f*** when she got home that day, though...

Yeah, this was definitely very sad. She was a little spoiled brat, she had two DUIs and was awaiting her trial on February 1st (yup, tomorrow), so on Sunday she attended the same Oyster Roast me and my friend were at. I'd heard of her before, it is a small city, but didn't know her personally.

Anyways she must have left about the same time as me and my friend. He and I rode back together, and she was about 10 seconds ahead of us on the highway, drunk as anything. We were a little buzzed too, so I mean, it just makes you feel like an a**hole considering we could've just as easily done something. Buuuuuuut, I guess I am a safer driver because she was speeding like all hell. She went around a bend, and while we didn't see this part she lost control and at full speed went across the median.

My friend, a guy I used to hang out with and read comic books with, and sort of still kept up with, was with his roommate, they went to get a TV.

As they were going in the opposite direction she went head first through the little wire gate and struck their Jeep. They both went flying, and miraculously one survived (how, I don't know). The other landed pretty close to the median. He was just all red and tangled into a human knot. I couldn't even look as we got closer. Everyone from the girls car started racing over.

I made a FB post about watching a guy get killed yesterday (on Monday) when I was informed it was these two guys I knew by a mutual friend. They all thought it was crazy I saw it.

There were a few more drunk driving accidents that weekend (surprise, surprise the city put on a ton of drinking festivals) and so the radio station was discussing whether or not the town should continue to promote these types of things. They had seen my FB page so they contacted me and requested an interview about drunk driving for their segment.

It was pretty crazy, but a girl I used to be intimate with asked to come over last night. We drank lots of wine and then had sex. We watched Django Unchained on my TV too, because why not, it's an awesome movie. It was a nice time together, I mean we talked and stuff. Maybe we will look into getting back together, but ehhh, I dunno yet.

 

[grout]

Yeah, this was definitely very sad. She was a little spoiled brat, she had two DUIs and was awaiting her trial on February 1st (yup, tomorrow), so on Sunday she attended the same Oyster Roast me and my friend were at. I'd heard of her before, it is a small city, but didn't know her personally.

Anyways she must have left about the same time as me and my friend. He and I rode back together, and she was about 10 seconds ahead of us on the highway, drunk as anything. We were a little buzzed too, so I mean, it just makes you feel like an a**hole considering we could've just as easily done something. Buuuuuuut, I guess I am a safer driver because she was speeding like all hell. She went around a bend, and while we didn't see this part she lost control and at full speed went across the median.

My friend, a guy I used to hang out with and read comic books with, and sort of still kept up with, was with his roommate, they went to get a TV.

As they were going in the opposite direction she went head first through the little wire gate and struck their Jeep. They both went flying, and miraculously one survived (how, I don't know). The other landed pretty close to the median. He was just all red and tangled into a human knot. I couldn't even look as we got closer. Everyone from the girls car started racing over.

I made a FB post about watching a guy get killed yesterday when I was informed it was these two guys I knew by a mutual friend. They all thought it was crazy I saw it.

There were a few more drunk driving accidents that weekend (surprise, surprise the city put on a ton of drinking festivals) and so the radio station was discussing whether or not the town should continue to promote these types of things. They had seen my FB page so they contacted me and requested an interview about drunk driving for their segment.

It was pretty crazy, but a girl I used to be intimate with asked to come over last night. We drank lots of wine and then had sex. We watched Django Unchained on my TV too, because why not, it's an awesome movie. It was a nice time together, I mean we talked and stuff. Maybe we will look into getting back together, but ehhh, I dunno yet.

Thats cracked me up!!,, nice

 

[Bruce Banner]

Seriously. She teases people, she's immature, she doesn't know what she wants and blames other people when she doesn't get what she doesn't know she wants. You're really better off without her. Harsh, but it's true. Even though you had good times together, you know who your real friends are when the going gets tough.


Anybody would have trust issues if they had friends like Jillian. Truly trustworthy folks don't ASK them to trust you - they prove it by BEING TRUSTWORTHY. It goes both ways. If trust is one-sided, it's called getting taken for a ride.

You say you're insecure too, which is why all these shady characters glomp onto you.

I said she took me along for the ride, she said "I didn't purposely do that." Which made me react that her head was so far up her own ass she didn't realize how screwed up she was acting.

Sucks because we didn't use to have this problem for all these years until all this crap. She was a good muse, editor and loved working with animals as much as I did. She "was" a good friend, but a terrifying GF, but it was entertaining. I had no control over how I felt and I knew it was gonna be a nightmare in the making.

Well needless to say, you're better off without her. The fact that she keeps trying to get in touch with you instead of just giving up gives off a kinda creepy / clingy vibe. Just make sure she doesn't go all Glen Close on you.

Well, I never let her know where I lived in five years or meet my family. It's how guarded I am. That and she did stalk her fiance's ex wife once. I was polarized by it and said no way.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Okay you just struck a very close note there. Let's define "fun."

Do people get in a relationship for "fun" ?

Or is "fun" simply for sex?

How do you know if someone truly cares for you, if someone is worth it or not, or if someone is just "having fun" with you after a few dates? I mean. I'm in this thing with my girl for what Tom Hanks' character from Cloud Atlas would call the true-true. The real-deal. The serious-and-ain't-curious.

Well, I think every relationship should start out and stay fun, otherwise what's the point? Sure there will be times when it isn't fun, when you need to put work into it, but if you're not having fun with the other person, then there's something wrong.

Does anyone believe their relationship will ever get bad?

Yeah, that's actually quite typical - intimacy often goes by the wayside when both of you have a lot of s*** to do. Even nowadays, I often stay late for work or class and when I come home, he's already asleep. We just have to square away a few hours on the weekends for or have a little quick thing when we both happen to be in bed. It doesn't have to be a big deal or a big date night. I think it's actually better to have regular cute things that you do, instead of saving everything for ONE DATE that's suppose to save your relationship. Kiss her goodbye every day when one of you leaves. Make sure you hug regularly. Even when you're tired, you can spare a few seconds for things like that. It helps to remind yourselves why you're together in the first place. Especially when you live together, it's easy to take your partner for granted because they're always there. But you have to remember that you're choosing to be together.

Actually I think a date night is a good idea. My wife and I always set aside Wednesday night for date night, of course, sometimes there's something that might get in the way, but 9 times out of 10 we make sure we make that night just for ourselves, no phones calls, texts, emails, video games, anything. It doesn't have to be something big either, last night we just ordered a pizza and watched an episode of Mystery Science Theater 3000, just that it's a night we "dedicate" to each other.

 

[Anita18]

I said she took me along for the ride, she said "I didn't purposely do that." Which made me react that her head was so far up her own ass she didn't realize how screwed up she was acting.

Sucks because we didn't use to have this problem for all these years until all this crap. She was a good muse, editor and loved working with animals as much as I did. She "was" a good friend, but a terrifying GF, but it was entertaining. I had no control over how I felt and I knew it was gonna be a nightmare in the making.

Well, she sounds like a good acquaintance or coworker, but a true friend is someone you can confide in and be sure they won't take advantage of you, on purpose or otherwise.

It actually sounds like she'd be a terrible girlfriend for anybody. She's probably quite attractive, which is how she gets engaged often. I have a friend like that, although she isn't as dense as your friend. She just has A LOT of baggage, but she's very cute and guys are always falling over themselves for her, even though she insists all her exes have needed therapy once they break up with her.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I got a text from a girl Wednesday, and we hooked up.

Text from a girl Thursday, and we hooked up last night.

Now I got a text from another girl this morning wanting to hang out tonight.

...huh?

Well, how about that?

Am I being Punk'd?

 

[Bruce Banner]

Well, she sounds like a good acquaintance or coworker, but a true friend is someone you can confide in and be sure they won't take advantage of you, on purpose or otherwise.

It actually sounds like she'd be a terrible girlfriend for anybody. She's probably quite attractive, which is how she gets engaged often. I have a friend like that, although she isn't as dense as your friend. She just has A LOT of baggage, but she's very cute and guys are always falling over themselves for her, even though she insists all her exes have needed therapy once they break up with her.

Yeah, she was from afar decent, and for a little while she was an awesome close friend. Looks wise, she is a 5ft tattooed Lizzy Caplan crossed with a crazy cat lady personality. Twylight saw a photo of us yesterday and said I'm better looking and above her league anyway so I appreciated the much compliment. Jill also said I needed to see a therapist...

Why the hell is she even bothering to say she isn't ****ing around with these coworkers to me? She doesn't have to say that crap to me (she knows I'm incredibly cynical) and I'm not gonna be a back up plan while I wait for her to settle into her new place. I know she is still mad that I called her and think she is acting like a **ore. This woman always burned bridges, why bother even making the effort to mend things? She actually wants me to try having faith in people, in her...

Also, make no mistake, I did act like an ***hole for the past few months, since I was the only voice of opposition to this freaking engagement. I'm an obsessive personality who hates people messing with my head. This whole incident unhinged me a little, made me angry as hell and has made me very irrational and I'm in the gutter. And as soon as was about to let it go, she called it off and I lost my **** on her and went for the emotional jugular.

The problem is that even if I did the right thing by telling her not to, it would seem like I had a selfish agenda. Her closest friend outside of me (who moved to Oregon) wasn't given the full story either until I told him she tried seducing me three days after the proposal, which stirred up whatever I felt and amplified it.

Surprisingly I found out the Marine actually believes I didn't do anything.

 

[Anita18]

Yeah, she was from afar decent, and for a little while she was an awesome close friend. Looks wise, she is a 5ft tattooed Lizzy Caplan crossed with a crazy cat lady personality. Twylight saw a photo of us yesterday and said I'm better looking and above her league anyway so I appreciated the much compliment. Jill also said I needed to see a therapist...

Why the hell is she even bothering to say she isn't ****ing around with these coworkers to me? She doesn't have to say that crap to me (she knows I'm incredibly cynical) and I'm not gonna be a back up plan while I wait for her to settle into her new place. I know she is still mad that I called her and think she is acting like a **ore. This woman always burned bridges, why bother even making the effort to mend things? She actually wants me to try having faith in people, in her...

Also, make no mistake, I did act like an ***hole for the past few months, since I was the only voice of opposition to this freaking engagement. I'm an obsessive personality who hates people messing with my head. This whole incident unhinged me a little, made me angry as hell and has made me very irrational and I'm in the gutter. And as soon as was about to let it go, she called it off and I lost my **** on her and went for the emotional jugular.

The problem is that even if I did the right thing by telling her not to, it would seem like I had a selfish agenda. Her closest friend outside of me (who moved to Oregon) wasn't given the full story either until I told him she tried seducing me three days after the proposal, which stirred up whatever I felt and amplified it.

Surprisingly I found out the Marine actually believes I didn't do anything.

Frankly, you're not the only person in this situation who needs one. But if Jill is so dense she doesn't see the problems in her behavior, then of course she won't be on board.

As I said, she can't ask you to trust her. She has to be trustworthy first, and there's no way in hell that even optimist, trusting ME is going to be her friend. I just don't have time for the kind of behavior that she pulls.

And it really doesn't matter one bit whether other people think your behavior is selfish. You do what you need to do. My cousin who's cut off contact with her mother, my side of the family thinks she's selfish. (We are related through her mother.) But I can acknowledge that my cousin is an intelligent, kind soul, and if she's done something so drastic as to cut off contact with her own mother, she must feel that her mom has done some terrible things and simply can't trust her emotionally anymore. I hold no grudges. I don't ask for lurid details to judge for myself whether her conclusion is "correct." She feels what she feels. It is what it is. If it makes her emotionally healthier, she should do it. (To be fair, I don't really like her mother all that much anyway. She is kind of crazy. )

Now, I also understand that not everyone feels the way I do. Lots of people hold grudges. But they're so emotionally draining. If you hang out with people like that, it'll emotionally drain you too. You need to surround yourself with people who are not filled with jealousy or hatred. Maybe easier said than done depending on your circle of friends, but even one such person in your life is better than none.

 

[Erzengel]

And it really doesn't matter one bit whether other people think your behavior is selfish. You do what you need to do. My cousin who's cut off contact with her mother, my side of the family thinks she's selfish. (We are related through her mother.) But I can acknowledge that my cousin is an intelligent, kind soul, and if she's done something so drastic as to cut off contact with her own mother, she must feel that her mom has done some terrible things and simply can't trust her emotionally anymore. I hold no grudges. I don't ask for lurid details to judge for myself whether her conclusion is "correct." She feels what she feels. It is what it is. If it makes her emotionally healthier, she should do it. (To be fair, I don't really like her mother all that much anyway. She is kind of crazy. )

But doesn't it take others to point out things you may not necessarily notice in yourself? I'm all about being honest with someone. I may not agree with their choices but I think my friends are at least open to criticism.

 

[Anita18]

But doesn't it take others to point out things you may not necessarily notice in yourself? I'm all about being honest with someone. I may not agree with their choices but I think my friends are at least open to criticism.

I think we're talking about different things. If you have a toxic person in your life, you should cut them out. Even if that person is your mother or an old friend. A toxic person isn't going to give you constructive criticism anyway.

Like, I have another friend whose mother regularly tells her she is fat and stupid. She is quite honestly neither of those things. She has someone like me to tell her when she's doing something dumb, but she doesn't need her mother to tell her so.

And I'm mostly referring to my side of the family judging my cousin for being estranged from her mom. I went to her brother's bar mitzvah and I was the only one on my side of the family to even say hello to my uncle. The grudge runs deep. She doesn't need that kind of judgment. She has to do what she has to do. I'm not saying she should ignore EVERYBODY around her, but she has to pick and choose who to trust.

Sure, OTOH there's someone like Lindsay Lohan who only has enablers around her, but most of us are sane and there's a balance.