Official Relationship Thread: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[SpideyVille]

A few points:

You talk a lot of theoretical situations but you know it's VERY different to be in a relationship then on the outside looking in.

Yes, and that was one of the things I asked her about, because of all of the people she could have went to, I don't understand why she came to me, knowing I had no relationship experience. But she said she figured I would be fair, unbiased, and would know how they both should handle the situation. I told them both on several occasion that my role wasn't to bring them together or anything, but rather to help out two friends, but I stopped once the semester started and they were forced to see each other, where she would make out with him one day, but then ignore him for a week. I knew at that point that they were going to do what they wanted so I stepped back and let them be.

You criticize her for basing her judgement of men based on 2 bad experiences, yet you just made a huge brush stroke of how arguing with women is pointless.

Fair point. I guess my issue is that I don't go around complaining about women, aside from this one occasion, but she goes around complaining about men and comes across as this angry feminist, and I know that that's not who she really is, but that's how she's been these past months. Plus, the fact that she doesn't want to talk about it to me anymore bothers me a bit because if she didn't want to talk about it, I would rather have her tell me politely, as opposed to ignoring me and then flipping out because of one comment I made to her.

I'm also curious if you only have platonic feelings for this girl. Especially if she is/was the closest girl in your life.

Well with her, while she was dating this guy, I always had a kind of older brother/dad kind of relationship with her, especially whenever she would go out drinking with him and his friends because in some ways I felt like she was one of the few girls that seemed to have a good head on her shoulders, and I was always worried about her changing because of him. But now that they've split, she's gone out even more and would use the parties and drinks to take her mind off of him, and I guess in some way I just wanted to protect her from all that. But its not because I have feelings for her since I do want them to get back together, especially since I do believe that he has changed and I know how miserable he is without her.

Lastly part of me wonders, if you're just telling yourself you don't want to be in a relationship because, you're single. You really mean to tell you if the right girl came around you'd reject her because your life isn't set yet? Hate to tell you, life doesn't work that way. I met someone when I thought that I didn't want to have anything serious.

Well I think I had mentioned the girl that I was into during the summer, and how we just couldn't figure out how to see each other for whatever reason. I think that really showed me that I'm just not ready for a relationship right now. I'm out of school, I don't have a job, and I have some debt piled up and that just really brings me down sometimes because if I were to be interested in a girl, it would be hard to take her out knowing that I couldn't really afford it, and I would feel so emasculated if I had to rely on her. For me, the next step for any and everything in my life is to get a job, and I don't feel right doing anything else, whether its getting involved in a relationship, or acting in a play or whatever, until I get that hurdle out of the way.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

So I think I officially lost my "good guy" card...

That girl from like 2 months ago that has a boyfriend?

Yea, we finally fooled around. I can say that sex didn't happen, but everything up until that point did.

I'm a jackass for fooling around with a girl who was taken.

I'm kind of curious as to why it didn't?

Anyways, this probably shouldn't be anyone's introduction to sex, but I mean go for it if she makes it available.

And you're still a 'nice guy' (or 'good guy' whatever), because frankly it still seems like the girl needs to be super horny for anything to happen.

It's good that *something* is happening though.

 

[Erzengel]

I'm kind of curious as to why it didn't?

Anyways, this probably shouldn't be anyone's introduction to sex, but I mean go for it if she makes it available.

And you're still a 'nice guy' (or 'good guy' whatever), because frankly it still seems like the girl needs to be super horny for anything to happen.

It's good that *something* is happening though.

Outside reasons that stopped us. I'd rather not go into it.

Not to be nosy, but you were open about everything else.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Not to be nosy, but you were open about everything else.

I mean I just pretty much said that her and I hooked up, that was about it. A general statement of fact, in a safe environment where nobody knows the parties involved, that is an update to a story that I've already discussed in here.

 

[Erzengel]

Well I was just clarifying the whole "outside reasons", I mean you discussed before the whole her having a boyfriend has kept you from pursuing anything. Not that hooking up is as bad as sex, but if you were going to break the glass and sneak into the store........

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

It wasn't some kind of morality thing that stopped us from having sex. Nor was it an issue of want, on either side.

Her and I talked at length, before and after, what we wanted from each other, and our concerns with the the morality of the issue.

What stopped us from going further was a mildly embarrassing untimely circumstance that was just more bad luck than anything else.

 

[knowsbleed]

It was her time.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Well I was just clarifying the whole "outside reasons", I mean you discussed before the whole her having a boyfriend has kept you from pursuing anything. Not that hooking up is as bad as sex, but if you were going to break the glass and sneak into the store........

...Yeah, I mean her boyfriend is going to be just as mad about 'hooking up'. Sex wasn't gonna make it any worse. Might as well go full tilt.

It wasn't some kind of morality thing that stopped us from having sex. Nor was it an issue of want, on either side.

Her and I talked at length, before and after, what we wanted from each other, and our concerns with the the morality of the issue.

What stopped us from going further was a mildly embarrassing untimely circumstance that was just more bad luck than anything else.

I think I may have guess this...

Spoiler

If it's what I think it is, that happens, to everyone. Just laugh it off, go back to foreplay, and if you're in good health you should be ready to go in about another 5 minutes. The trick is not to act embarrassed by it. I never let it phase me.

 

[Anita18]

Fair point. I guess my issue is that I don't go around complaining about women, aside from this one occasion, but she goes around complaining about men and comes across as this angry feminist, and I know that that's not who she really is, but that's how she's been these past months. Plus, the fact that she doesn't want to talk about it to me anymore bothers me a bit because if she didn't want to talk about it, I would rather have her tell me politely, as opposed to ignoring me and then flipping out because of one comment I made to her.

Well with her, while she was dating this guy, I always had a kind of older brother/dad kind of relationship with her, especially whenever she would go out drinking with him and his friends because in some ways I felt like she was one of the few girls that seemed to have a good head on her shoulders, and I was always worried about her changing because of him. But now that they've split, she's gone out even more and would use the parties and drinks to take her mind off of him, and I guess in some way I just wanted to protect her from all that. But its not because I have feelings for her since I do want them to get back together, especially since I do believe that he has changed and I know how miserable he is without her.

Sorry to say, but if she wants to be an immature idiot, you can't help her. Either she will realize how stupid and unfair she is being, or she won't. Trying to change her mind won't work.

And trying to get your friends back together won't work either. It could be why she's treating you like that. I was just having a conversation with a friend of mine. The coworker with the unsupportive husband is a mutual friend of ours, and she also knew this friend's ex-boyfriend. Because she thinks she knows the ex, and thinks that he's a good guy (even though my friend says he's really not), coworker has been trying to get them back together, come hell or high water. Because he's miserable without my friend. (Also, there's an aspect of my coworker projecting her problems onto this friend, with trying to save her marriage with the unsupportive *****ebag husband and all.) My friend says, "That's just not going to happen - I have no obligation, we're not married and we don't have kids" and because of various other things they disagree vehemently on, they don't really talk anymore.

So I would suggest that you let both people move on. If she doesn't want him back, there's no forcing her.

Well I think I had mentioned the girl that I was into during the summer, and how we just couldn't figure out how to see each other for whatever reason. I think that really showed me that I'm just not ready for a relationship right now. I'm out of school, I don't have a job, and I have some debt piled up and that just really brings me down sometimes because if I were to be interested in a girl, it would be hard to take her out knowing that I couldn't really afford it, and I would feel so emasculated if I had to rely on her. For me, the next step for any and everything in my life is to get a job, and I don't feel right doing anything else, whether its getting involved in a relationship, or acting in a play or whatever, until I get that hurdle out of the way.

Well, that's on you. There will be plenty of times you feel emasculated in a relationship, believe me, even if you don't set out on that course. You won't be able to fix everything. There were times when my dad couldn't find a job and we had to rely on my mom's salary. It was only recently that my fiance could pay half of the rent, again because of the job thing. I didn't pressure him to find any ol' job just so he could support me - we're in this together, we'll make it work, and we'll give and take accordingly.

If you're not okay with things not being entirely in your control at all times, you might never find yourself in a relationship, frankly.

It wasn't some kind of morality thing that stopped us from having sex. Nor was it an issue of want, on either side.

Her and I talked at length, before and after, what we wanted from each other, and our concerns with the the morality of the issue.

What stopped us from going further was a mildly embarrassing untimely circumstance that was just more bad luck than anything else.

Ie, they got caught.

What befuddles me is how she apparently has feelings for you, but refuses to break up with her boyfriend. Has she been threatened by him? Does she really want to have her cake and eat it too? It's such a simple solution, and it just makes me when people opt to take the messiest way out of a relationship.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

It was her time.

...Yeah, I mean her boyfriend is going to be just as mad about 'hooking up'. Sex wasn't gonna make it any worse. Might as well go full tilt.

I think I may have guess this...

Spoiler

If it's what I think it is, that happens, to everyone. Just laugh it off, go back to foreplay, and if you're in good health you should be ready to go in about another 5 minutes. The trick is not to act embarrassed by it. I never let it phase me.

Ie, they got caught.

What befuddles me is how she apparently has feelings for you, but refuses to break up with her boyfriend. Has she been threatened by him? Does she really want to have her cake and eat it too? It's such a simple solution, and it just makes me when people opt to take the messiest way out of a relationship.

No, no, and no. It wasn't any of those issues that stopped us.

Although it was a funny story to share with my friends.

 

[Anita18]

No, no, and no. It wasn't any of those issues that stopped us.

Although it was a funny story to share with my friends.

So your friends know you're fooling around with a girl with a boyfriend? Come on Nell, you're better than this.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Ie, they got caught.

What befuddles me is how she apparently has feelings for you, but refuses to break up with her boyfriend. Has she been threatened by him? Does she really want to have her cake and eat it too? It's such a simple solution, and it just makes me when people opt to take the messiest way out of a relationship.

It sounds to me like she's just in heat.

I have a few experiences with women who are 'spoken for'.

I honestly don't think they have 'feelings' for me, just that they want something different (although usually I find I share a lot in common with the BF/H) and they're in heat. Sometimes he's kind of gotten to that bored stage, and just doesn't have that spark you get with a new lover. No danger either, since they've known their partner a while.

I think they catch some of that initial attraction, and especially being in a relationship they just want to know what it's like to act on that again.

I also think it usually (ironically) happens when the girl wants their guy to be more serious about the relationship.

Also girls who are hot typically go good boyfriend > better boyfriend > better boyfriend without actually ever breaking up.

If they try someone and they like them, know they're going places, then their little side fun will get serious.

From personal experience though I wouldn't try to second guess that. Feelings can be faked after all, and generally in cheating situations they still appear, but are rather vapid and superficial.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

So your friends know you're fooling around with a girl with a boyfriend? Come on Nell, you're better than this.

My close friends do, yea. Close friends that have no connections to her or anyone else I hang around with at school.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

No, no, and no. It wasn't any of those issues that stopped us.

Although it was a funny story to share with my friends.

I guess my curiosity is piqued now. Unless a nuclear weapon goes off, I'll probably keep trying, unless there is a lead fallout shelter handy, then I'd just move the party there.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

My close friends do, yea. Close friends that have no connections to her or anyone else I hang around with at school.

The other good rule for cheating is to shut up about it.

Braggarts usually get the least tail because girls don't want that getting around, especially if they feel like they are worth something.

Close friends make interesting enemies sometimes. Loose lips, sink ships as they say.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

The other good rule for cheating is to shut up about it.

Braggarts usually get the least tail because girls don't want that getting around, especially if they feel like they are worth something.

That's why the only people who know about it are the most trusted of friends that don't even live in the same state.

I would never tell anybody who actually knows her, or has any kind of connection what so ever to my group of friends at school because I don't want that getting out for either of our sake.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

That's why the only people who know about it are the most trusted of friends that don't even live in the same state.

I would never tell anybody who actually knows her, or has any kind of connection what so ever to my group of friends at school because I don't want that getting out for either of our sake.

Well you are telling us too, lol.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Well you are telling us too, lol.

Here it is totally anonymous. I can be anyone, anywhere lol.

 

[Erzengel]

I think I'm done pulling teeth.

I mean if you are going to beat around the bush, I think enough people have asked and it has teased people enough that they are curious.

 

[Anita18]

It sounds to me like she's just in heat.

I have a few experiences with women who are 'spoken for'.

I honestly don't think they have 'feelings' for me, just that they want something different (although usually I find I share a lot in common with the BF/H) and they're in heat. Sometimes he's kind of gotten to that bored stage, and just doesn't have that spark you get with a new lover. No danger either, since they've known their partner a while.

I think they catch some of that initial attraction, and especially being in a relationship they just want to know what it's like to act on that again.

I also think it usually (ironically) happens when the girl wants their guy to be more serious about the relationship.

Also girls who are hot typically go good boyfriend > better boyfriend > better boyfriend without actually ever breaking up.

If they try someone and they like them, know they're going places, then their little side fun will get serious.

From personal experience though I wouldn't try to second guess that. Feelings can be faked after all, and generally in cheating situations they still appear, but are rather vapid and superficial.

I dunno, I'm lazy and just want to avoid all drama. I guess some (most?) people don't have that avoidance habit?

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I dunno, I'm lazy and just want to avoid all drama. I guess some (most?) people don't have that avoidance habit?

I think there is definitely a reason successful people cheat, and that is they aren't lazy, feeds their desire for a challenge, feeds their risk taking mentality...couple of things. But if you're lazy you probably are more apt just to love the one you're with.

 

[SpideyVille]

Sorry to say, but if she wants to be an immature idiot, you can't help her. Either she will realize how stupid and unfair she is being, or she won't. Trying to change her mind won't work.

And trying to get your friends back together won't work either. It could be why she's treating you like that. I was just having a conversation with a friend of mine. The coworker with the unsupportive husband is a mutual friend of ours, and she also knew this friend's ex-boyfriend. Because she thinks she knows the ex, and thinks that he's a good guy (even though my friend says he's really not), coworker has been trying to get them back together, come hell or high water. Because he's miserable without my friend. (Also, there's an aspect of my coworker projecting her problems onto this friend, with trying to save her marriage with the unsupportive *****ebag husband and all.) My friend says, "That's just not going to happen - I have no obligation, we're not married and we don't have kids" and because of various other things they disagree vehemently on, they don't really talk anymore.

So I would suggest that you let both people move on. If she doesn't want him back, there's no forcing her.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to get them back together. Like now I'm more closer to the guy, and I've told him straight up that I would only want to see them get back together if it was the right way, meaning she learns to trust him again, and he stops trying to be like his best friend, who is pretty much a player. I've also told her several times that any advice I give her is not to tell her what she should do in terms of taking him back or moving on. She's still conflicted about whether she loves or hates him more, but still wants to be friends with him, and my role was more to help them not make things awkward or misleading. Like I didn't want something to happen where she would say "Hi" to him, and he goes around thinking everything is okay and that she wants to get back with him.

It was easy to deal with them separately during the summer, but once the semester started and they were in classes together and stuff, they were forced to deal with it all on their own. My advice for him was to give her space and just let her do her thing, but he didn't, and despite all of her anger towards him, she still made out with him after their first face to face talk, and that confused her even more about how she felt. But at that point, I knew it was time to let them be because I wasn't trying to get involved with the relationship aspect between them, and I knew they were going to do what they wanted regardless.

Well, that's on you. There will be plenty of times you feel emasculated in a relationship, believe me, even if you don't set out on that course. You won't be able to fix everything. There were times when my dad couldn't find a job and we had to rely on my mom's salary. It was only recently that my fiance could pay half of the rent, again because of the job thing. I didn't pressure him to find any ol' job just so he could support me - we're in this together, we'll make it work, and we'll give and take accordingly.

If you're not okay with things not being entirely in your control at all times, you might never find yourself in a relationship, frankly.

I guess its just so much of an issue for me because I've had to hear my mom call me a lazy bum for years because I never got a job while I was in school. So now that I don't have school to take up any of my time, I just feel worse about myself because I'm not "being a man". And after seeing how many times I had to cancel on that girl during the summer because I was broke, I felt like maybe the time wasn't right for me. I'm not saying I want or need to feel like I'm in control all of the time, but more that it just hurts my confidence when I think about the situation I'm in and how I wish I could do better.

And at the same time, I just feel like being single is a lot more convenient at the moment and I haven't really had that strong desire to hook up with someone. Like I'm not complaining about being single, especially since I know I can change that if I really wanted to.

 

[Anita18]

I think there is definitely a reason successful people cheat, and that is they aren't lazy, feeds their desire for a challenge, feeds their risk taking mentality...couple of things. But if you're lazy you probably are more apt just to love the one you're with.

Who said I wasn't successful? I'm working and doing classes and freelancing and wedding planning all at the same time. I just choose not to spend my precious energy mired in stupid relationship crap because of that. Super energetic type-A personality I am not. I need to dole out my efforts accordingly.

Just to be clear, I'm not trying to get them back together. Like now I'm more closer to the guy, and I've told him straight up that I would only want to see them get back together if it was the right way, meaning she learns to trust him again, and he stops trying to be like his best friend, who is pretty much a player. I've also told her several times that any advice I give her is not to tell her what she should do in terms of taking him back or moving on. She's still conflicted about whether she loves or hates him more, but still wants to be friends with him, and my role was more to help them not make things awkward or misleading. Like I didn't want something to happen where she would say "Hi" to him, and he goes around thinking everything is okay and that she wants to get back with him.

It was easy to deal with them separately during the summer, but once the semester started and they were in classes together and stuff, they were forced to deal with it all on their own. My advice for him was to give her space and just let her do her thing, but he didn't, and despite all of her anger towards him, she still made out with him after their first face to face talk, and that confused her even more about how she felt. But at that point, I knew it was time to let them be because I wasn't trying to get involved with the relationship aspect between them, and I knew they were going to do what they wanted regardless.

Fair enough. But still, if she wants to be stupid and immature around either you or your friend, there's nothing you can do about it.

I guess its just so much of an issue for me because I've had to hear my mom call me a lazy bum for years because I never got a job while I was in school. So now that I don't have school to take up any of my time, I just feel worse about myself because I'm not "being a man". And after seeing how many times I had to cancel on that girl during the summer because I was broke, I felt like maybe the time wasn't right for me. I'm not saying I want or need to feel like I'm in control all of the time, but more that it just hurts my confidence when I think about the situation I'm in and how I wish I could do better.

And at the same time, I just feel like being single is a lot more convenient at the moment and I haven't really had that strong desire to hook up with someone. Like I'm not complaining about being single, especially since I know I can change that if I really wanted to.

To be fair, the job market really sucks right now. As long as you keep on trying, it's better than nothing and kind people will understand.

For me, it's not that a guy is unemployed or living at home (because my fiance has done both in the past), it's if they have ambition. If they continue to work toward long-term goals even if they don't have anything to show for it right now, instead of vegging out at home complaining about how hard life is. If life is getting you down, do you let it smack you around or do you get back up and into the game? Even if you don't get a relationship out of it, it's a general good way to approach life.

 

[SpideyVille]

Fair enough. But still, if she wants to be stupid and immature around either you or your friend, there's nothing you can do about it.

Right now, things are weird between them. He takes the bus with her home most of the time, and she appreciates it. But every now and then I'll see him an she'll show me some long text conversation they had the night before where she yells at him and complains about how much he hurt her.

To be fair, the job market really sucks right now. As long as you keep on trying, it's better than nothing and kind people will understand.

For me, it's not that a guy is unemployed or living at home (because my fiance has done both in the past), it's if they have ambition. If they continue to work toward long-term goals even if they don't have anything to show for it right now, instead of vegging out at home complaining about how hard life is. If life is getting you down, do you let it smack you around or do you get back up and into the game? Even if you don't get a relationship out of it, it's a general good way to approach life.

I'll be honest, after I graduated, I was sort of a lazy bum because I spent the entire summer playing video games instead of looking for a job because I was trying to avoid taking responsibility for my life and my future. But now, I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do. I've been looking, and have been on a few interviews, but I haven't gotten anything yet. I think being an art major doesn't help me either, but I'm not making excuses. I know there's a lot of work and growing up that I need to do.

 

[amazingfantasy15]

Right now, things are weird between them. He takes the bus with her home most of the time, and she appreciates it. But every now and then I'll see him an she'll show me some long text conversation they had the night before where she yells at him and complains about how much he hurt her.

I'll be honest, after I graduated, I was sort of a lazy bum because I spent the entire summer playing video games instead of looking for a job because I was trying to avoid taking responsibility for my life and my future. But now, I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do. I've been looking, and have been on a few interviews, but I haven't gotten anything yet. I think being an art major doesn't help me either, but I'm not making excuses. I know there's a lot of work and growing up that I need to do.

Read that last paragraph again, everything in it is an excuse. If you're unemployee, then you're full time job should be to find a job. Saying I'm still trying to figure out what I want to do, is an excuse, you don't know what you want to do, then work at a grocery store, plenty of mindless work so you can think about what you want to do. I'm sure it'll also be sucky work that will motivate you to get something better.