Pros and Cons so far

[Tron5000]

"Pros and Cons so far"

"Will Spidey 3 be the Batman & Robin of the series?"

"My problems with the movie so far"

I love it that Raimi/Marvel/Sony doesn't care for any of your concerns, they just constantly write you all off as a bunch of geekish imps, who will be first in line to see the movie come May 2007, without making a single change. They've made billions off of your b:tchin,' moaning and half-witted concerns thus far, and I see no end in sight for that not to continue.

Those are 3 entirely different threads. 1 is about someone's personal concerns, another is about whether this marks "the end" of the franchise, and the last one is a place for people to list their pros and cons.

I like how you use the word "your" to put yourself outside of what goes on in these threads. How awfully condescending of you.

 

[Dragon]

If from everything you have seen/read so far you think this movie will be perfect/suck then no need to post here
However if like a lot of fans you have excitement but also concern over some things we have seen/heard then post your pros and cons so far here

Pros-

Exploration of Peter's darkside when bonded with the symbiote,i think this is really gonna evolve his character and serve up some great drama

THC as Sandman Will be a total badass

Gwen and Captain Stacy being added is a great touch and i now hope they will be well written

Harry as GG2 getting to complete his arc and this should lead some powerful brother vs brother scenes

The action i think will blow anything we have seen before off the screen

MJ looking hot with better hair

Cons-

Sandman being the killer of Uncle Ben is a bad choice

Venom only having 10 minutes of screen time

Gwen being a floozy

I agree with your concerns, but I really believe that while that summary is clearly legit- The person didn't read it the script all the way through. For example He doesn't mention Captain Stacy or the fourth villain. Also, it may have been an early draft that has since been polished.

I think Raimi knows that having Sandman as Ben's killer is unnecessary. And from one of the set reports of aa scene between Gwen and Eddie, Gwen was described as being kind of shy. So I don't think the floozy thing will apply.

Also, I think ten minutes of Venom is an exaggeration. More likelywhat sam menat when he said it (Or actually merely said yes to the fan asking) was that Eddie joins with the symbiote at the end of Act 2- so he's more likely around for the last 30-40 minutes of the story.

Sam and Crew seem to really be taking their time on this one, so I doubt it will be a bad film.

 

[Tron5000]

Why would you think "10 minutes" = 30-40 minutes? I didn't take that math class in school...

 

[Visionary]

Those are 3 entirely different threads. 1 is about someone's personal concerns, another is about whether this marks "the end" of the franchise, and the last one is a place for people to list their pros and cons.

One person's concern<>turns into multiple people's concerns<>turns into what's bad and what's good<>which turns into OH NO the franchise is ruined (now let's go pile into the theaters in record numbers). It's the same damn thread. Someone needs to make a STICKY out of this thread, so you people can vent without creating multiple threads. Why are other forums so organized, but this board is a train wreck?

I like how you use the word "your" to put yourself outside of what goes on in these threads. How awfully condescending of you.

I do that often, because I like the response I get from folks like you. I don't think I'm better than you...I know it.

 

[Dragon]

Why would you think "10 minutes" = 30-40 minutes? I didn't take that math class in school...

You're taking everything too literally. If you recall- Sam didn't give the number ten minues. The fan on the set asked him about the ten minutes and he hesitated then said yes. Do you actually think Sam ran off the exact number of minutes in his mind and agreed it was 10 on the nose?

And when I say Venom is likely in the last 30-40 minutes, i'm not saying Venom will literally be onscreen for 40 minutes. I'm saying he'll probably be in the last 40 minutes of the movie. The point is, that however long he's actually on screen, the last 40 minutes of the movie will deal with among other things, Eddie having the power of the symbiote, as opposed to only ten minutes.

 

[Tony Stark]

Sandman being the killer of Uncle Ben is a bad choice

This is just pure BS. Uncle Ben's killer died in the first movie. I love how some of the fanboys around here try to stir up crap when they know absolutely nothing.

It always seems the worst on the Spider-man boards too.

 

[ultimatefan]

I agree with your concerns, but I really believe that while that summary is clearly legit- The person didn't read it the script all the way through. For example He doesn't mention Captain Stacy or the fourth villain. Also, it may have been an early draft that has since been polished.

I think Raimi knows that having Sandman as Ben's killer is unnecessary. And from one of the set reports of aa scene between Gwen and Eddie, Gwen was described as being kind of shy. So I don't think the floozy thing will apply.

Also, I think ten minutes of Venom is an exaggeration. More likelywhat sam menat when he said it (Or actually merely said yes to the fan asking) was that Eddie joins with the symbiote at the end of Act 2- so he's more likely around for the last 30-40 minutes of the story.

Sam and Crew seem to really be taking their time on this one, so I doubt it will be a bad film.

Yeah, this is one of the things people forget. Sometimes these very early reviews and scoops are based on old script drafts. Moriarty from AICN reviewed the Superman Returns script as if it was the shooting one and it turned out to be an old draft.

 

[ISHMAEL]

Pros
symboite making peter darker
the stacys
thc as sandman
finishin green goblin arc
lots of villains

cons
symobite suit with raised webbing
no pics on green goblin or sandman in full sand

 

[Hunter Rider]

This is just pure BS. Uncle Ben's killer died in the first movie. I love how some of the fanboys around here try to stir up crap when they know absolutely nothing.

It always seems the worst on the Spider-man boards too.

it was from an early script review that was proven on point about a few things so it isn't total BS and for the record im very posiitve about this film

 

[Hunter Rider]

I agree with your concerns, but I really believe that while that summary is clearly legit- The person didn't read it the script all the way through. For example He doesn't mention Captain Stacy or the fourth villain. Also, it may have been an early draft that has since been polished.

I think Raimi knows that having Sandman as Ben's killer is unnecessary. And from one of the set reports of aa scene between Gwen and Eddie, Gwen was described as being kind of shy. So I don't think the floozy thing will apply.

Also, I think ten minutes of Venom is an exaggeration. More likelywhat sam menat when he said it (Or actually merely said yes to the fan asking) was that Eddie joins with the symbiote at the end of Act 2- so he's more likely around for the last 30-40 minutes of the story.

Sam and Crew seem to really be taking their time on this one, so I doubt it will be a bad film.

Oh i agree that's why i put so far,im sure most of them will be put to rest
For instance the person reading the script could misjudge the way Gwen is written and as you say the 10 minute thing is most probably loose time frame
With the Sandman as Ben's killer part some think it may be an hallucination brought on by the symbiote that makes Spidey think that

 

[Tron5000]

One person's concern<>turns into multiple people's concerns<>turns into what's bad and what's good<>which turns into OH NO the franchise is ruined (now let's go pile into the theaters in record numbers). It's the same damn thread. Someone needs to make a STICKY out of this thread, so you people can vent without creating multiple threads. Why are other forums so organized, but this board is a train wreck?

I do that often, because I like the response I get from folks like you. I don't think I'm better than you...I know it.

What's worse...Coming here to vent about concerns or coming here to bash the people coming here to vent their concerns?

You may give a better BJ than me, but aside from that, methinks you're incorrect...Rather, meknows you are.

 

["Iron Man"]

Pros:
Eddie Brock/Venom's storyline (hopefully the John Jameson/space story)
Returning cast and crew(very talented)
Gwen and George Stacy (finally they get their share)
The Goblin Legacy being finally fulfilled (we wont see any more goblins hopefully)
Thomas Haden Church, period. I don't care who he's playing, this man can act! (and although as many believe so I think THC would've made a FANTASTIC Eddie Brock/Venom, he'll do fine as Flint Marko/Sandman.)
Finally, a DEATH of someone other than a villain! (probably Aunt May or Harry)
Spider-Man Day (it's about time the hero got the appreciation he deserves, and with thousands of people in the crowd, SMD is a perfect time for a villain to strike!
Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell (what can I say...GENIUSES!)

Cons:
4 villains (while I can't wait to see Venom, Sandman, and Green Goblin II all in action and this "mysterious" 4th villain, I do believe 4 is a bit too much for one movie.)
Topher as Eddie Brock (I don't think it bothers me very much anymore, but I will have to see him in the teaser trailer or in action to know if he's a good choice for Eddie. He's just too skinny. Sorry Topher, even though you have bulked up significantly.)
Sandman/Uncle Ben plot point....NO! (of course this will be Uncle Ben's flashback, Uncle Ben: "Peter, the Sandman...was the one who..killed me." Peter: "NOOOOOOO!")

With all those things in mind, I cannot wait until May 4th because I haveno doubtthat Raimi and his cast and crew will make this work.

 

[Tron5000]

You're taking everything too literally. If you recall- Sam didn't give the number ten minues. The fan on the set asked him about the ten minutes and he hesitated then said yes. Do you actually think Sam ran off the exact number of minutes in his mind and agreed it was 10 on the nose?

And when I say Venom is likely in the last 30-40 minutes, i'm not saying Venom will literally be onscreen for 40 minutes. I'm saying he'll probably be in the last 40 minutes of the movie. The point is, that however long he's actually on screen, the last 40 minutes of the movie will deal with among other things, Eddie having the power of the symbiote, as opposed to only ten minutes.

No, I don't think Raimi said, "Venom will appear from approximately 613 seconds"...but there is a great discrepancy between 10 and 30-40. Just interested to know what would lead you to believe this is the scenario, aside from your own wishful thinking.

I know you're not saying Venom would have 40 minutes of screen time. Spidey doesn't even get 40 minutes of screen time. And I would bet against Eddie becoming Venom 40 minutes before the end.

 

[CoGro]

I think at this point, Gwen being in this film is a con.

I don't like how Raimi has developed the spider-man universe to begin with, as none of these characters have been established in any of the previous films but oh well.

Spider-man has so many rich characters and so far we've only got to know 3 of the main players well - Peter, MJ and Harry. If Eddie or Felecia or Gwen were in the other flicks, then maybe I would give a **** about what happened to them, but that's not the case. The Conners cameo should set up a greater role in future films, but that's not happening either.

 

[TheVileOne]

Cons-

Sandman being the killer of Uncle Ben is a bad choice

Venom only having 10 minutes of screen time

Gwen being a floozy

All these are unconfirmed rumors.

Gwen's a floozy? Based on what?

 

[Dragon]

No, I don't think Raimi said, "Venom will appear from approximately 613 seconds"...but there is a great discrepancy between 10 and 30-40. Just interested to know what would lead you to believe this is the scenario, aside from your own wishful thinking.

I know you're not saying Venom would have 40 minutes of screen time. Spidey doesn't even get 40 minutes of screen time. And I would bet against Eddie becoming Venom 40 minutes before the end.

Well, not being a big Venom fan, my thinking isn't really wishful..

But- film scripts are generally broken up into 3 acts- assuming we're talking about a 120 page, 2 hour script, Act 1 is pages 1-30 (set-up)/ Act 2 is 30-90 (confrontation) /Act 3 is 90-120 (resolution).

A comparison to the first Spidey film is:

End of Act one: Osborn becomes the Goblin.
End of Act two: Osborn kidnaps MJ.


Spidey 2:

End of Act One: Ock's experiment fails.
End of Act 2: Ock defeats Spidey, gets tritium.


Eddie acquiring the symbiote will probably happen at the end of act 2, when Peter rids himself of it. Now, based on all of the story and characters, I think it's safe to assume that the script is more close to 150 pages or 2.5 hours. So I think the third act will be more like 40 minutes.

Speculation I know, and I could easily be wrong. But I think this is close to the structure they'd be going with.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

PROS:

1) Raimi at the helm.

2) Original cast still on board.

3) Church as Sandman. He will own the role, just as the other two Spidey villains (DaFoe and Molina) owned theirs.

4) The Stacy family finally debuts!

5) Grace as Eddie Brock. This guys acting chops are stellar. He and Tobey will be DYNAMITE on screen together as the Parker/Brock fued heats up. (trust the Captain on this one)...

6) Harry taking up the Goblin mantle.

CONS:

1) The symbiote suit. It looks NOTHING like the comic version (other than its black...more or less)...i was completely underwhelmed by the debut photo...

2) Too many villains. I like having one. Two would be ok, but FOUR? Im just afraid that they will be rushed and not given the proper treatment (still having nightmares about what they did to Bane in Batman & Robin...<shudders>)...im hopeful the other two will be a cameo and a set-up for a sequel, but you can never be sure...

Those are my only two concerns....

 

[TheCardPlayer]

All these are unconfirmed rumors.

Gwen's a floozy? Based on what?

Come on. The guy who spoiled that got everything right months ago.

 

[FNSpidey]

Dragon has a point.

Even if this is not how things will play out eventually, I like application of solid logic in speculatory discussions.

 

[Cmill216]

End of Act 2: Ock defeats Spidey, gets tritium.

Nah. The end of Act 2 is when Ock attacks Peter and MJ in the cafe; Peter returning as Spider-Man, and then the final events take place.

 

[Dragon]

Nah. The end of Act 2 is when Ock attacks Peter and MJ in the cafe; Peter returning as Spider-Man, and then the final events take place.

Nah. That's the middle-second third of act 2. The end of the confrontation part of the script (Act 2) usually places the hero in a position of defeat, where he has to regroup and find a way to achieve victory (And that doesn't necessarily mean he'll ultimately win- he might only score a moral victory).

Act 3 is Spider-Man still having to save MJ and the city from Ock, who is still in a position of power.

 

[Cmill216]

Nah. That's the middle-second third of act 2. The end of the confrontation part of the script (Act 2) usually places the hero in a position of defeat, where he has to regroup and find a way to achieve victory (And that doesn't necessarily mean he'll ultimately win- he might only score a moral victory).

Act 3 is Spider-Man still having to save MJ and the city from Ock, who is still in a position of power.

See, I don't see that for SM2. That makes your Act 3 REALLY REALLY short.

Act 1: Everything up until the bank fight with Ock
Act 2: Beginning at the Planeterium, and gives up being Spider-Man and so on
Act 3: Comes back into his own as Spider-Man and so on

 

[Hunter Rider]

Act two ends in the Cafe scene with MJ and Pete where Ock kidnaps her IMO

 

[Cmill216]

Act two ends in the Cafe scene with MJ and Pete where Ock kidnaps her IMO

*exactly*

 

[Dragon]

See, I don't see that for SM2. That makes your Act 3 REALLY REALLY short.

Act 1: Everything up until the bank fight with Ock
Act 2: Beginning at the Planeterium, and gives up being Spider-Man and so on
Act 3: Comes back into his own as Spider-Man and so on

Ideally the third act is 30 minutes. But that doesn't always work out.

Ulitmately- it's art, not science. What I'm presenting is the classic outline- referred to as a paradigm.

To go more into detail using Spidey 1 & 2-

Spidey 1 Act 1: Set-up- Intro of all important characters. Creation of the scenario around which the film's action takes place- (Birth of Spidey & The Goblin/ Peter's unrequited love for MJ)

Spidey 2 Act 1: Set-Up- re-intro of main characters/ Intro new main characters- (Birth of Doc Ock/ Peter & MJ still separated but want to be together)

Spidey 1 Act: 2 Confrontation- Establish conflict- Spidey & Goblin become adversaries/ Peter in competition with Harry for MJ)

Then there's the midpoint: MJ & Harry break-up/ Goblin learns Peter's ID

Act 2 ends with Aunt May being attacked/ Osborn learning of Peter's love for MJ/ MJ is kidnapped. Peter's in a position of defeat.

Spidey 2 Act 2: Confrontation- Conflict- Spidey and Ock become adversaries/ Peter loses his powers (Conflict with himself/Uncle Ben)/ peter tries to reconnect with MJ.

Midpoint: Peter realizes he must become Spider-Man again. MJ is kidnapped.

Act 2 ends with Train fight/ Spidey defeated and unmasked/ MJ and the city in peril. Peter again in a position of defeat.

Spidey 1 Act 3: The resolution: Every relevant story is concluded. Showdown with Goblin/Osborn dies/ MJ reveals her love for Peter. / Peter resigns to a life of duty over happiness.

Spidey 2 Act 3: Peter regroups/ Goes after and defeats Ock/ Ock destroys reactor/ Peter lets MJ go/ MJ decides to be with Peter.

Again it's not always perfect, but that's more or less how it works.