Revenge of the *Official* Relationship Advice Thread

[Babs Gordon]

I think the common misconception is men mislabeling themselves 'nice guys' when they are really just the insecure whiny 'blame the girls' kind of jerks, and mislabeling confident guys as jerks.

Nice, confident guys never finish last. Without fail, they finish first. Especially if they take good care of themselves physically (this is an undeniably attractive trait people).

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I think the common misconception is men mislabeling themselves 'nice guys' when they are really just the insecure whiny 'blame the girls' kind of jerks, and mislabeling confident guys as jerks.

Nice, confident guys never finish last. Without fail, they finish first. Especially if they take good care of themselves physically (this is an undeniably attractive trait people).

Well I don't think nice guys do these things intentionally. Being insecure is a very real thing. I mean these guys really don't do anything wrong, they're hardly sexual predators, they need a little confidence. That can be in short supply sometimes.

 

[Erzengel]

Well it's been said, "nice guys" who deliberately do things in an effort for women to like them and get angered when those things don't work, aren't really nice guys.

 

[Anita18]

Well it's been said, "nice guys" who deliberately do things in an effort for women to like them and get angered when those things don't work, aren't really nice guys.

We've totally had this discussion before.

Approval-seeking guys are the stereotypical "nice guys." Real nice guys do nice things because they feel it's the right thing to do, not because they think people will like them because of it.

I dunno, I dislike the PUA way of thinking because although some guys might find some of the tips helpful (especially shy guys), at its core it reduces women to a commodity.

I know my bf read up on some of it, which totally made me because I don't think he followed any of the rules aside from being relatively unavailable. But he's always been relatively unavailable to everybody, not just me.

 

[Hound55]

"Nice guys" needs definition.

I'm a cynical, skeptical jerk who behaves like a nice guy but sees all of the jerk angles and anticipates that behaviour in advance.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

We've totally had this discussion before.

Approval-seeking guys are the stereotypical "nice guys." Real nice guys do nice things because they feel it's the right thing to do, not because they think people will like them because of it.

I dunno, I dislike the PUA way of thinking because although some guys might find some of the tips helpful (especially shy guys), at its core it reduces women to a commodity.

I know my bf read up on some of it, which totally made me because I don't think he followed any of the rules aside from being relatively unavailable. But he's always been relatively unavailable to everybody, not just me.

I feel like PUA's simply take approval seekers and turn them into attention ****es. PUAs create a little confidence by encouraging those guys to engage in outlandish behavior. I find most to be borderline obnoxious, they just wantonly hit on so many girls it becomes a simple number's game.

 

[Erzengel]

We've totally had this discussion before.

We've had but it bears repeating especially when people bring up, the whole, I'm a nice guy and do all these things for this girl and yet doing these things aren't making her like me speal that pops up here periodically.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I've always considered PUA tactics as better suited for a club environment.

Some of the techniques PUA’s use are effective, but not necessarily for the every day guy.

Improving your game overall, and applying it to everyday life, so you can comfortably flirt with a girl who is buying groceries in the same isle as you and get her number would be a better use of it.

Far better to use some of the better tools in every day situations to not lose opportunities with women, and leave out the obnoxious *****ebag behavior.

Using "game" (for lack of a better word to sum up "skills with women", and ignoring its connection to the *****iest of PUA’s) to maintain your dignity and not get suckered or the run around by a girl is even more important.

One easy concept is not to ever let a girl make you do anything you don’t want to do. That can be as easy as not being a personal butler like the suck ups you see walking behind a girl at the local mall carrying her purse for her in public.

Avoiding returning all of a girls calls right away, like a lapdog eager to please. Or calling her 15 times a day to tell her how she is the most beautiful girl you ever could get and how you are soooo happy to have a girl out of your league.

Not leaving messages on her phone. Women have a "creep radar" that is registers very strongly when you leave a bunch of messages for her.

These are "nice guy" behaviors.

Strange as they are all the attributes of psychos and stalkers and other such desperate creeps.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

I can't give out relationship advice when I'm so busy dealing with my own love life. My ex-fiancé (who I broke up with) still wants to be friends, which is quite hard considering we did love eachother, so naturally we still have feelings for one another. He's jealous and constantly wants to know what's going on in my life. He was and is very manipulative. And when he wouldn't get his way, he wore me down till he got it. That's ultimately why I ended it. His destructive flaws clouded our love. Everyone's told me that one can't be friends with their ex, but I want to prove them wrong... though he's making it difficult.

Since that disaster, though, I met a guy who is the complete opposite. He makes me very happy without trying. It has to get worse before it gets better, I suppose!

Not picking on you directly Bam , but you did just illustrate a few things a guy did which I want to use as "no-no" examples.

These are acts of desperation. Anything that looks desperate AT ALL, to a woman is a lust killer. The bane of attraction.

There has NEVER been a steamy romance novel ever written to have a male character that is desperate. EVER.

Gentlemen, don’t be THAT GUY.

1. If a girl dumps you, you are NOT her friend. Do not try to hang on to her. At all. Trying to hang on to a girl is guess what? DESPERATE. It says in girl language. "I’m not attractive enough for other women, would you please please, pretty please have me, I’ll do aaaaaanything you wan’t, just don’t leave me out in the cold where I have no other options".

So if you get dumped, maintain your dignity, and don’t call her unless she has something you own that is worth more than $200.00 usd. When you come to pick it up have another more attractive women with you. If she is coming over to get something from you, have not one but two attractive women intercept her who are both just happening to be coming to your place to be with you at the same time (yes I have actually done this, and yes if felt awesome).

Back to the point, when its over, leave her alone. Do not call, or text, or send and e-mail telling her how your day went.

2. Definitely do not try eyeing up the competition, as your not in that contest anymore. He’s taller, better looking, makes more money and has a much larger penis than yours. Hey, that’s what YOU wanted to know RIGHT? Ohhh you didn’t want to know that? Then why are you trying to find out what’s going on in her love life?

3. Never blackmail a girl to get sex. Never say you love her just to get sex. Never ever, and I mean EEEEEEVER beg for it. DIGNITY remember?
Lastly, look at the guy who Bam is with now.

I bolded that last line to show exactly what I am talking about. If the guy is not ‘trying", yet makes her happy, that is a good example of a guy who is not "trying too hard".

So here is the concept: Guy A. Lost because he was a desperate try hard, Guy B. wins by not even trying.

Still want to carry your girls purse, and call her to leave 15 messages begging to get back together? Didn’t think so.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

A lot of that stuff you wrote is pretty deliberately manipulative. In fact ironically calling other girls to come over to 'intercept' someone who rejected you is pretty desperate behavior. Even if you pull it off in your heart you are erecting a false set of circumstances to manipulate the feelings of another human being. That's a huge no-no for me. If a girl gets flakey on me I'll call her on it, such as saying "I see how it is, you're playing games with me", but I wouldn't start sending her pictures of other girls or 'intercept' her just to manipulate her feelings.

Some of what you wrote crosses basic respect for human beings. You don't have to be a doormat, but you have to be honest and firm not manipulative.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

A lot of that stuff you wrote is pretty deliberately manipulative. In fact ironically calling other girls to come over to 'intercept' someone who rejected you is pretty desperate behavior. Even if you pull it off in your heart you are erecting a false set of circumstances to manipulate the feelings of another human being. That's a huge no-no for me. If a girl gets flakey on me I'll call her on it, such as saying "I see how it is, you're playing games with me", but I wouldn't start sending her pictures of other girls or 'intercept' her just to manipulate her feelings.

Some of what you wrote crosses basic respect for human beings. You don't have to be a doormat, but you have to be honest and firm not manipulative.

You’re a good enough reader to recognize what is a hyperbole.

In the particular situation that I said I had done before, that is true, and she had it coming. This was my ex-wife, at the time separated for 11 months after she was threatening to push dragging the divorce out forever to get permanent alimony after what was only a 3 year marriage, or to take 100% custody of our son if I did not agree to giving her permanent alimony, and bragging about how her new rich boyfriend would be willing to pay for all of her legal fees. The divorce was initiated after she decided my meager 60k income was not enough to support her thousand dollar a month spending habits, and ran off of with a 54 year old fat man (she was 24 at the time) and his 7 figure income.

If ANYONE deserved to have the fact that their ex husband is attractive to other women rubbed in her face, it was her. By the way she never did get the custody she wanted, OR the alimony.

I learned a valuable lesson too. 1. Never get married. 2. If you ignore advice number 1, then at least don’t just marry a woman for her looks. Yes even an a**h*** like me can learn there are more important things in a woman than just physical beauty.

Valuable lesson indeed, and one learned the VERY hard way.
I am now in a monogamous relationship with a woman who is both attractive and treats me very very good. So at the moment I’m out of the market.

If you have a skill, might as well either use it, or pass it on to someone else who can. Which is why I am offering good information, for free.

Even if I look like an jerk/*****ebag/a**h*** for saying the uncomfortable truth.

I’d like to see some of the guys who have the most trouble actually get themselves some options to chose from when it comes to women, and pick the one who treats them best, vs. just settling in a relationship with the first girl who doesn’t jam them into the friend zone.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

...but you wouldn't "friend zone" them, and that's kind of the point. You're kind of illustrating my point. My point isn't "oh this'll be successful", because I can't tell anyone what'll be successful since I won't know what person they'd hypothetically be talking to, but they will, in effect pushing through what is an awkward sticking point.

Also, I think you're confusing asking for sex with talking about sex. I'm talking about bringing up sex as a subject, and seeing how that person reacts. If I was talking to you and you responded by dumping me (which I'd find a tad extreme, sorry) I'd simply backpeddle a bit (if I felt you were worth the effort) and say something like "I'm sorry for bringing it up, I didn't realize that would be a offensive to you".

It's easier to beg forgiveness after all...

Keep an eye out for non-verbal indicators of interest to tell if she is ready for sex. I don't have the time to type them all up, google it.

Its much more interesting to her if you take what you want physically, once you both are at your place or hers, and if she has displayed enough interest.

If she says "stop" obviously stop, but you would be shocked how much women can be aroused by a man who takes charge by physical action.

Talking about it first is a no-no for me. If it works for you, hey fine.

Never backpeddle. Never beg forgiveness.

Better to be unfazed by any little test she throws at you, and acting offended more than she really is can be a way of her assessing if you fold under pressure.

 

[DBryan]

A lot of that really sounds like stuff you'd read from one of those cheesy "how to get laid" dating books.

 

[Erzengel]

Keep an eye out for non-verbal indicators of interest to tell if she is ready for sex. I don't have the time to type them all up, google it.

Its much more interesting to her if you take what you want physically, once you both are at your place or hers, and if she has displayed enough interest.

If she says "stop" obviously stop, but you would be shocked how much women can be aroused by a man who takes charge by physical action.

Talking about it first is a no-no for me. If it works for you, hey fine.

Never backpeddle. Never beg forgiveness.

Better to be unfazed by any little test she throws at you, and acting offended more than she really is can be a way of her assessing if you fold under pressure.

I consider myself rather an expert in identifying the signals in which a woman is interested in sex.

First, after besting any other guys establishing that I'm the dominant alpha male in the area, I let the woman know that I'm interested in her by butting my head up against her and making short but loud grunts.

If she receptive, we go to a secluded place, whether it be mine or her place, or a back alley, where we do the traditional mating dance as we circle each other.

She then presents herself, and I'm sure you know the rest.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Keep an eye out for non-verbal indicators of interest to tell if she is ready for sex. I don't have the time to type them all up, google it.

Its much more interesting to her if you take what you want physically, once you both are at your place or hers, and if she has displayed enough interest.

If she says "stop" obviously stop, but you would be shocked how much women can be aroused by a man who takes charge by physical action.

Talking about it first is a no-no for me. If it works for you, hey fine.

Never backpeddle. Never beg forgiveness.

Better to be unfazed by any little test she throws at you, and acting offended more than she really is can be a way of her assessing if you fold under pressure.

Hmmm, perhaps a little context here would be helpful since I provided it. When I wrote that I was trying to get people to understand things about confidence and extending your comfort zone. Sex is a subject a lot of 'nice guys' struggle with so they have to see it's not as scary or off limits as they think it is in their minds. My advice is usually one step at a time. For someone who would hypothetically be starting at rock bottom.

 

[Babs Gordon]

I consider myself rather an expert in identifying the signals in which a woman is interested in sex.

First, after besting any other guys establishing that I'm the dominant alpha male in the area, I let the woman know that I'm interested in her by butting my head up against her and making short but loud grunts.

If she receptive, we go to a secluded place, whether it be mine or her place, or a back alley, where we do the traditional mating dance as we circle each other.

She then presents herself, and I'm sure you know the rest.

gold

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

A lot of that really sounds like stuff you'd read from one of those cheesy "how to get laid" dating books.

Yeah, I agree. Erz post was, as usual, hilarious.

 

[Anita18]

I've always considered PUA tactics as better suited for a club environment.

Some of the techniques PUA’s use are effective, but not necessarily for the every day guy.

Improving your game overall, and applying it to everyday life, so you can comfortably flirt with a girl who is buying groceries in the same isle as you and get her number would be a better use of it.

Far better to use some of the better tools in every day situations to not lose opportunities with women, and leave out the obnoxious *****ebag behavior.

Using "game" (for lack of a better word to sum up "skills with women", and ignoring its connection to the *****iest of PUA’s) to maintain your dignity and not get suckered or the run around by a girl is even more important.

One easy concept is not to ever let a girl make you do anything you don’t want to do. That can be as easy as not being a personal butler like the suck ups you see walking behind a girl at the local mall carrying her purse for her in public.

Avoiding returning all of a girls calls right away, like a lapdog eager to please. Or calling her 15 times a day to tell her how she is the most beautiful girl you ever could get and how you are soooo happy to have a girl out of your league.

Not leaving messages on her phone. Women have a "creep radar" that is registers very strongly when you leave a bunch of messages for her.

These are "nice guy" behaviors.

Strange as they are all the attributes of psychos and stalkers and other such desperate creeps.

Um, no, that's not "nice guy" behaviors, those are selfish behaviors that guys who think they are nice do when they want something for themselves, namely, the commodity woman in question.

And if anything, I think of "game" as "confidence." Anything more makes you look like a *****e.

So if you get dumped, maintain your dignity, and don’t call her unless she has something you own that is worth more than $200.00 usd. When you come to pick it up have another more attractive women with you. If she is coming over to get something from you, have not one but two attractive women intercept her who are both just happening to be coming to your place to be with you at the same time (yes I have actually done this, and yes if felt awesome).

If my ex-bf had done that, I would have gone and felt thankful I wasn't with a player anymore. Actually, he did kind of do that, because he got with another girl right after he broke up with me and pulled some strings and snuck around to share a room with her (we were only allowed single-sex doubles in college, and he never wanted to live with me), which hurt me. But when I found that she was totally playing him from the very beginning, it felt really good!

Actually, it didn't. It felt really bad because I still cared about him and it hurts to see someone you care about do really stupid stuff. I mean, I was single, but at least I wasn't being played.

Frankly it sounds like you and your ex-wife deserved each other in your immaturity, but at least you've all moved on to better things now.

Hmmm, perhaps a little context here would be helpful since I provided it. When I wrote that I was trying to get people to understand things about confidence and extending your comfort zone. Sex is a subject a lot of 'nice guys' struggle with so they have to see it's not as scary or off limits as they think it is in their minds. My advice is usually one step at a time. For someone who would hypothetically be starting at rock bottom.

Yeah that was one thing I liked about my bf even though he was totally physically awkward about it with NO game. He respected sex as an act and we didn't get around to doing it right away, but when we finally got to that level, he didn't treat it like it was a huuuuge deal. Which I liked since I was a virgin at the time and you know how some people fret if OMG their first time isn't just perfect like out of a romance novel? I wasn't that girl. I mean, obviously I was picky but I wasn't waiting for the perfect moment, I was just waiting for a guy who I could trust 100% and respect me 100%.

 

[Anita18]

I consider myself rather an expert in identifying the signals in which a woman is interested in sex.

First, after besting any other guys establishing that I'm the dominant alpha male in the area, I let the woman know that I'm interested in her by butting my head up against her and making short but loud grunts.

If she receptive, we go to a secluded place, whether it be mine or her place, or a back alley, where we do the traditional mating dance as we circle each other.

She then presents herself, and I'm sure you know the rest.

You forgot the part where he builds a mancave of shiny things to show the woman he's mentally capable of finding all the shiny things he can. Most other men don't have the capability of doing even that well.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

Frankly it sounds like you and your ex-wife deserved each other in your immaturity, but at least you've all moved on to better things now.

Agreed. Your Ex-Wife may be a real b*tch and deserve a proper 'Old School Nick' sliming on her front porch, so in your situation I sympathsize with your behavior. A girl you've just met, or even your typical ex doesn't deserve that kind of treatment, it's just plain disrespectful. I'll cross the jerk line all day long, but I don't cross the disrespect line. I'd be satisfied that I could, if I wanted to, really break a woman's heart by doing something like that. I think, ironically, knowing it's a ploy, that it smacks of insecurity and immaturity. Again, given your situation I do understand your particular case.

Yeah that was one thing I liked about my bf even though he was totally physically awkward about it with NO game. He respected sex as an act and we didn't get around to doing it right away, but when we finally got to that level, he didn't treat it like it was a huuuuge deal. Which I liked since I was a virgin at the time and you know how some people fret if OMG their first time isn't just perfect like out of a romance novel? I wasn't that girl. I mean, obviously I was picky but I wasn't waiting for the perfect moment, I was just waiting for a guy who I could trust 100% and respect me 100%.

I encourage guys to explore their boundaries, but you must respect someone's established boundaries. Anything else is rape, or manipulative. I find in regards to sex girls have a lot more risk and a lot more reward. The only actual risk for a guy is an STD. Men don't physically deal with a pregnancy, or experience vaginal orgasms. Also I'm not really afraid of getting raped by someone I'm a foot taller than and 80 lbs heavier than. That's another reason though I say honesty is best. If you create false circumstances a woman has good reason to be skeptical of your motives. Part of talking about sex is learning how to do so in a disarming fashion.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

Agreed. Your Ex-Wife may be a real b*tch and deserve a proper 'Old School Nick' sliming on her front porch, so in your situation I sympathsize with your behavior. A girl you've just met, or even your typical ex doesn't deserve that kind of treatment, it's just plain disrespectful. I'll cross the jerk line all day long, but I don't cross the disrespect line. I'd be satisfied that I could, if I wanted to, really break a woman's heart by doing something like that. I think, ironically, knowing it's a ploy, that it smacks of insecurity and immaturity. Again, given your situation I do understand your particular case.

For the other situations, as you said typical ex or a girl you just met that would be getting quite needlessly harsh.

My earlier main point is that guys simply need stay away from ex's.

What many of them do is call every 15 minutes, leave messages, and lament how they could never find a girl as beautiful as her if they looked forever. Sometimes they try to be her friend and become the nosey creepy guy, who wants to know what is going on with her 24/7 while once in a while begging her to come back.

 

[SuperMike335!!]

A lot of that really sounds like stuff you'd read from one of those cheesy "how to get laid" dating books.

How well has what you have been doing working?

You must clearly be a guy who knows even more than anything "cheesy" I suggest.

Go ahead, enlighten the class as to specifically what you do and avoid doing in the dating world, weather it actually be trying to get laid, OR finding the right girl for a relationship who makes you very happy.

I really want to know, after all I made my honest suggestions, completely open for ridicule and critique, and even use my own real face in my avatar.

If you want to pick apart my suggestions and tell me what works even better, and you're so sure it works better from your personal experience, than I will get out my note book and start take notes.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

For the other situations, as you said typical ex or a girl you just met that would be getting quite needlessly harsh.

My earlier main point is that guys simply need stay away from ex's.

What many of them do is call every 15 minutes, leave messages, and lament how they could never find a girl as beautiful as her if they looked forever. Sometimes they try to be her friend and become the nosey creepy guy, who wants to know what is going on with her 24/7 while once in a while begging her to come back.

Well, I think not calling exes right away, or in some cases ever is kind of obvious. I usually think there is a healthy balance though. I don't discourage post-relationship friendships. Sometimes you get to a level with someone and realize you're still good together but not in that way.

I think this sounds a little defeatist in some sense to me. Like it works in theory but not in practice.

I guess you could clarify at which point you consider yourself rejected? I would say as long as you're on speaking terms with someone and you have a primary means of contact there is at least a fighting chance.

Where I think the nice guy mistake is caving into resistance. I think frequently they confuses resistance and rejection. As I said, girls risk more in sexual encounters, hence the perceived resistance they have to them.

I find girls to be, on the whole, flakey. I'd even say this might be a universal human trait. Ask them out, they'll string you along. Nice guys fall head first for that trap. They got strung along and they'll just, in essence, bend over and take it.

I do think girls flake out to gauge a guy's seriousness. If he responds with "oh, it's okay sugarlumps I'll cu soon !" it's done, immediate friend. If the next text is "What gives? I thought we were going out? I don't know if I can trust you anymore!" then you've displayed confidence. The risk with the latter is, however, flat out rejection.

 

[Anita18]

I find girls to be, on the whole, flakey. I'd even say this might be a universal human trait. Ask them out, they'll string you along. Nice guys fall head first for that trap. They got strung along and they'll just, in essence, bend over and take it.

I do think girls flake out to gauge a guy's seriousness. If he responds with "oh, it's okay sugarlumps I'll cu soon !" it's done, immediate friend. If the next text is "What gives? I thought we were going out? I don't know if I can trust you anymore!" then you've displayed confidence. The risk with the latter is, however, flat out rejection.

Girls are flaky? In my experience, guys are equally flaky! They're just not flaky when they think they have a chance to get laid.

But a guy who actually does what he says (not just in a romantic setting) would certainly get my attention. That's how low my standards are when trying to work with people.

 

[Babs Gordon]

Let's stop using this term "nice guy" as if it's this universal catch-all. Ugh.

The projected misogyny in this thread is making my wretch a little. How easy the world must be to understand painted in these broad freaking brush strokes.