BvS The Batsuit Thread - Part 14

[BatFan1979]

^Thanks!

 

[Superman_200]

That's a bad thing.....how?
We're talking about batman.....the character who works with the idea that the criminals of gotham think he's some sort of creature.

^Yeah,that guy there would avoid things that make him appear "less human".

Those who have been in a fight know that seeing the eyes is part of the experience of it. If I am fighting in sunglasses it wont have the same effect as if with my strikes you can see the "fire" in my eyes. Without it, you know it is a person, but the fact that it is "less human" makes him seem less angry. If I am fighting I don't want you to feel "oh it is a man in a suit going thru the motions in a kung fu uniform". I wouldn't wear sunglasses, or lenses or anything. I want you to see my eyes, I want you to see how furious I look, not "oh, shiny lenses" or "oh, red lenses", etc.

Batman would want people to feel his rage, see his intensity, see the look in his eyes, not see a glow or see a blank white lens.

 

[MrsKent26]

Well, I couldn't sleep, so I decided to do another little animation from a past manip. These are short, but kind of fun to do! Hope you enjoy it

Very nice work, Batfan.

 

[BattleAngel]

While glowing eyes may be scary, they also give away his position when he's stalking his prey. If Batman rarely uses the lenses, then he may as well not use them at all. Now, speakers to make his voice echo, I'd go for that.

Hmm... you do know he has the white lenses in that clip, right? That's a great example of Batman being a psychological force - and the idea of speakers manipulating his voice and throwing it around is a great one (although I don't think he's going to be lugging his PA to every show down), but he backs up his theatrics in the above clip with obscured eye lenses. To me, it's the final touch that really sells what he's doing.

 

[BattleAngel]

Well, I couldn't sleep, so I decided to do another little animation from a past manip. These are short, but kind of fun to do! Hope you enjoy it

nailed it. To me, this shows exactly what I mean by the ability of the eyes to emote even though they are white. In my opinion, the flexible white lens actually just amplifies the emotion you can achieve with eyes. If the cowl moves with the eye/facial muscles, there really is no reason that this look won't do everything we need it to do from both a visual, psychological, and emotional standpoint.

 

[Mutante]

The whole idea of Batman being a creature of the night is dumb. Anyone who takes a decent look at him can see that he is simply a man in a costume. Having glowing lenses won´t make him look less human. It will just make him look like a man in a costume with glowing lenses. Unless in that universe people are all ******ed.

Not only it looks cooler to see his eyes, but it is also better for stealth purposes.

 

[DeadPresident]

It's pretty canon that criminals tend not to see much of Batman, hence the 'creature' assertions being made. If you saw disembodied eyes floating around as a criminal your imagination would probably run away with you too.

 

[Mutante]

It's pretty canon that criminals tend not to see much of Batman, hence the 'creature' assertions being made. If you saw disembodied eyes floating around as a criminal your imagination would probably run away with you too.

Well, in comics, movies and tv shows criminals get a good look at him plenty of times.

 

[BatFan1979]

Like some have said, even if there are select scenes that the lenses come into play for dramatic effect, that would make me happy. I mean, plenty of criminals thought Nolan's Batman was more than "a man in a costume"- he was an unpredictable, intimidating threat. I think glowing eyes at some initial shadowed run-ins with bad guys would be even more intimidating! Again, they don't have to glow all the time, but he should be able to control it and use it at will IMO.

 

[afan]

The whole idea of Batman being a creature of the night is dumb. Anyone who takes a decent look at him can see that he is simply a man in a costume. Having glowing lenses won´t make him look less human. It will just make him look like a man in a costume with glowing lenses. Unless in that universe people are all ******ed.

Not only it looks cooler to see his eyes, but it is also better for stealth purposes.

Well you also have to keep in mind Batman canon as it relates to the criminal element........."criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot." It's a cornerstone of the mythos that must be accepted as an absolute in his world, or the effectiveness of The Batman persona quickly falls apart.

 

[BatFan1979]

Well you also have to keep in mind Batman canon as it relates to the criminal element........."criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot." It's a cornerstone of the mythos that must be accepted as an absolute in his world, or the effectiveness of The Batman persona quickly falls apart.

That's a good point too!

 

[Mutante]

Well you also have to keep in mind Batman canon as it relates to the criminal element........."criminals are a superstitious and cowardly lot."

And ******ed, BTW. Unless he never shows himself, i don´t know what kind of person wouldn´t be able to see that it´s simply a man in a costume.

I also don´t think something glowing is necessarily scarier than a simple shadow.

 

[Jekecy]

And ******ed, BTW. Unless he never shows himself, i don´t know what kind of person wouldn´t be able to see that it´s simply a man in a costume.

It is a bit of a stretch considering how much visibility he gets (especially nowadays), but I do believe the comics themselves have done away with the 'creature of the night' angle. That was more of a staple of Batman's earlier days.

There's tons more focus on the technological aspect of him now. And it is probably more appropriate given the adventures he has, though I do find it clashing with the original ideals of the character.

 

[afan]

And ******ed, BTW. Unless he never shows himself, i don´t know what kind of person wouldn´t be able to see that it´s simply a man in a costume.

I also don´t think something glowing is necessarily scarier than a simple shadow.

Then, Mutante, the reason for "The Batman" is ******ed.
Why a bat as a symbol? You either buy the idea of Bruce Wayne preying on the inherent weakness of the criminal element, and using it to his great advantage, or you don't.

 

[BatFan1979]

And ******ed, BTW. Unless he never shows himself, i don´t know what kind of person wouldn´t be able to see that it´s simply a man in a costume.

I also don´t think something glowing is necessarily scarier than a simple shadow.

Nevertheless, they must do it in the comics for some reason. Call it dramatic effect or whatever - I just think it could be used effectively in a live action movie if done in the right way, especially if the let them emote like I tried to show in my second little animation. It would definitely look better than that if it were CGI

 

[Jekecy]

Then, Mutante, the reason for "The Batman" is ******ed.
Why a bat as a symbol? You either buy the idea of Bruce Wayne preying on the inherent weakness of the criminal element, and using it to his great advantage, or you don't.

I think the point is most of modern stories do not touch on this aspect anymore. After all when you see high-tech cars speeding across the streets and custom bat-planes in the skies, you'd have to be dumb not to notice this isn't some supernatural figure living in your city.

I'm not certain how it is in the nu52, but it wasn't long ago Batman was announced as part of a literal [superhero] corporation. For all intents and purposes the "creature of the night" is dead.

 

[Mutante]

Then, Mutante, the reason for "The Batman" is ******ed.
Why a bat as a symbol? You either buy the idea of Bruce Wayne preying on the inherent weakness of the criminal element, and using it to his great advantage, or you don't.

They can be afraid of him knowing he is human. And that´s what happens most of the time.

 

[afan]

I think the point is most of modern stories do not touch on this aspect anymore. After all when you see high-tech cars speeding across the streets and custom bat-planes in the skies, you'd have to be dumb not to notice this isn't some supernatural figure living in your city.

I'm not certain how it is in the nu52, but it wasn't long ago Batman was announced as part of a literal [superhero] corporation. For all intents and purposes the "creature of the night" is dead.

The focus is on the psyche of the criminal mind as it is presented in the mythos, and it is the only rationale for Wayne's use of a bat as his symbol, solely because of its connection to superstitious fears. If you are designing the bat-suit as this thread is meant to discuss, then the "creature of the night" aspect must not be ignored.

 

[Jekecy]

The focus is on the psyche of the criminal mind as it is presented in the mythos, and it is the only rationale for Wayne's use of a bat as his symbol, solely because of its connection to superstitious fears. If you are designing the bat-suit as this thread is meant to discuss, then the "creature of the night" aspect must not be ignored.

Again though, the character has evolved beyond his original conception. If this were the early days/years of Batman, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But since this is a veteran Bruce, likely with his own Batmobile and who knows what else, that interpretation clashes with the wraith angle.

Criminals can still fear him, but moreso because they know what will happen to them, and they don't want to face a guy who is clearly not all "there". Once Batman's full artillery is out in full display you're going to lose that supernatural image.

The batsuit may have had particular origins and intentions, but even now it is only retained to honor the classic aesthetic rather than uphold its roots.

 

[afan]

Again though, the character has evolved beyond his original conception. If this were the early days/years of Batman, I would wholeheartedly agree with you. But since this is a veteran Bruce, likely with his own Batmobile and who knows what else, that interpretation clashes with the wraith angle.

Criminals can still fear him, but moreso because they know what will happen to them, and they don't want to face a guy who is clearly not all "there". Once Batman's full artillery is out in full display you're going to lose that supernatural image.

The batsuit may have had particular origins and intentions, but even now it is only retained to honor the classic aesthetic rather than uphold its roots.

Then I think, Jekecy, you still wholeheartedly agree as the suit is the discussion and regardless of how Gotham would view a veteran Batman; Bruce Wayne's original inspiration for the appearance of the suit, and supposedly how the suit would still appear, was to strike fear in the superstitous and cowardly. To create a creature of the night urban myth, whether that myth is exposed over time or not. How Batman may currently be regarded by Gotham's criminal element does not alter the original design concept of the suit.

 

[Mutante]

To create a creature of the night urban myth, whether that myth is exposed over time or not. How Batman may currently be regarded by Gotham's criminal element does not alter the original design concept of the suit.

If you wanna go by the original concept, i don´t think the white eyes were intended to represent lenses. It was simply an artistic choice.

And Batman showed himself plenty of times in the early days. I don´t think he ever did a good job pretending he was anything other than a guy in a costume.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

No, the white eyes were to make him look less human. Kane's original design showed his eyes.

 

[afan]

If you wanna go by the original concept, i don´t think the white eyes were intended to represent lenses. It was simply an artistic choice.

And Batman showed himself plenty of times in the early days. I don´t think he ever did a good job pretending he was anything other than a guy in a costume.

“Criminals are a superstitious, cowardly lot.
So my disguise must be able to strike terror into their hearts.
I must be a creature of the night.
Black. Terrible.
I shall become A BAT!” --

This is I believe from a 1939 Detective Comic, whether or not you buy the concept, or it's effectivenes, it is the concept.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Really, Bob Kane's opinion should be thrown out like bathwater

Bill FINGER gave us the classic design, INCLUDING the eyeslits.

Bob Kane's work is Mr.Incredible with wings

Which is ahead of its time, but in the wrong way

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

Well keep in mind, DC asked him for a Superman without powers. So he literally just inverted Superman.