BvS The Batsuit Thread - - - - - - - - - Part 32

[morningmimosa]

hnnnnnnghhhhhh.

But, what's there is there... I will always find sad that this opportunity to go for that look was missed.

There will be scenes with white lenses, in Snyder I trust.

 

[jokesonm3]

I really want to see a non-concept version of this pose in action:

 

[The Shield]

I am not very fond of it being used excessively, but I think CGI would be the best approach here. And Snyder definitely doesn't shy away from it, entire mech-suit is CGI.

But, what's there is there... I will always find sad that this opportunity to go for that look was missed.

I honestly don't think it's going to be missed with The Zack at the helm. He really loves this character and I think he's going to put it in. I'm really looking forward to seeing what all he's put in this movie for all the fans.

 

[KillerWolf]

There will be scenes with white lenses, in Snyder I trust.

I honestly don't think it's going to be missed with The Zack at the helm. He really loves this character and I think he's going to put it in. I'm really looking forward to seeing what all he's put in this movie for all the fans.

From the concept art, it would seem that they wanted to go for white contact lenses, but have decided not to (which I am glad for, as I don't like the look) and as much as I'd like to believe that, I have a feeling that Snyder feels he has delivered the white eyes with the mech-suit and that's that.

Perhaps in subsequent films though, JL and Bats solo... it could easily be explained by saying/showing that Bats found the HUD from mech-suit cowl to be very useful during the fight with Superman, so he decided to install lenses in regular cowl as well.

 

[The Shield]

From the concept art, it would seem that they wanted to go for white contact lenses, but have decided not to (which I am glad for, as I don't like the look) and as much as I'd like to believe that, I have a feeling that Snyder feels he has delivered the white eyes with the mech-suit and that's that.

Perhaps in subsequent films though, JL and Bats solo... it could easily be explained by saying/showing that Bats found the HUD from mech-suit cowl to be very useful during the fight with Superman, so he decided to install lenses in regular cowl as well.

I thought the same thing when I saw the meh suit the first time. Like ok that's where he'll show it. But then I got this feeling that he'll show it again with his normal suit... With the draped over cape look perhaps? I'm still waiting for that one.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

These are by far the best manips I've seen of the white lenses on the cowl... and all it does is solidify how lifeless and detached it is. I'm very glad they didn't go this direction.

 

[Jekecy]

These are by far the best manips I've seen of the white lenses on the cowl... and all it does is solidify how lifeless and detached it is. I'm very glad they didn't go this direction.

Likely intentional and at the very least beneficial to the intimidating and demon-like approach he's trying to evoke in general. I never understood how this was a criticism against the concept. Third to the ears and cape, it's arguably the most iconic aspect of his image.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

Likely intentional and at the very least beneficial to the intimidating and demon-like approach he's trying to evoke in general. I never understood how this was a criticism against the concept. Third to the ears and cape, it's arguably the most iconic aspect of his image.

I like it in the comics, but in live action it creates a disconnect between the audience and the character/actor. Ultimately, that out weighs any practical benefit it may give the character. For the record, I've never argued that the white eyes couldn't work, only that it's a choice that reflects style over substance. These images coupled with Deadpool's use of the lenses, only cement that for me.

 

[Angel0fDeath]

I like it in the comics, but in live action it creates a disconnect between the audience and the character/actor. Ultimately, that out weighs any practical benefit it may give the character. For the record, I've never argued that the white eyes couldn't work, only that it's a choice that reflects style over substance. These images coupled with Deadpool's use of the lenses, only cement that for me.

I agree. When you make eye contact with someone, the anger and rage you see in their eyes - that's all gone with the lenses. Unless they're almost transparent and you can still see the eyes like in those concept art images.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

I agree. When you make eye contact with someone, the anger and rage you see in their eyes - that's all gone with the lenses. Unless they're almost transparent and you can still see the eyes like in those concept art images.

I still think that approach interferes with the audience's connection to the character, though (not to mention makes the character look zombified).

And I know the argument that the use of an "emoting" brow/eye slits could make up for it, but all that does is create the illusion of emotion. We might intellectually understand the emotions that are being conveyed to us, but as humans, we won't feel it on an instinctual level.

 

[Jekecy]

I agree. When you make eye contact with someone, the anger and rage you see in their eyes - that's all gone with the lenses. Unless they're almost transparent and you can still see the eyes like in those concept art images.

Eyes are not the only means of conveying emotion. You've got the entire lower half of your face and body language left to work with.

Hugo Weaving and Jackie Earle Haley had their entire faces covered, yet I had no issue with reading any given emotion they were trying to evoke in 'V for Vendetta' and 'Watchmen, respectively. Any hindrances provided by practical limitations should be overcome by a good actor.

 

[Mr. Finger]

I am not very fond of it being used excessively, but I think CGI would be the best approach here. And Snyder definitely doesn't shy away from it, entire mech-suit is CGI.

Not to be argumentative, but I believe that the "Mech" suit was indeed built in full.. And will be used for some fight scenes.
Including the glowing white eyes.
All real.. All built by Ironhead Studios along with the normal "Bat-suit".

No doubt, CGI versions of suits will see screen time by WETA Digital?
But it won't be all CGI..

"Do you bleed?" That was Ben.. In the "Mech" suit..

 

[Lencho01]

I like it in the comics, but in live action it creates a disconnect between the audience and the character/actor. Ultimately, that out weighs any practical benefit it may give the character. For the record, I've never argued that the white eyes couldn't work, only that it's a choice that reflects style over substance. These images coupled with Deadpool's use of the lenses, only cement that for me.

I agree. When you make eye contact with someone, the anger and rage you see in their eyes - that's all gone with the lenses. Unless they're almost transparent and you can still see the eyes like in those concept art images.

There's no such thing as "eyes of facial expression," but there are "muscles of facial expression" and that's what's important. Outside of being more comfortable, it's why the Batman masks have big eye openings so you can see the actors' facial muscles near the eyes

Also there's the voice.

 

[Clark-Kent]

So over the white lenses in live action.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

Eyes are not the only means of conveying emotion. You've got the entire lower half of your face and body language left to work with.

Hugo Weaving and Jackie Earle Haley had their entire faces covered, yet I had no issue with reading any given emotion they were trying to evoke in 'V for Vendetta' and 'Watchmen, respectively. Any hindrances provided by practical limitations should be overcome by a good actor.

Agreed, but ideally you wouldn't cover up the face/eyes if it wasn't necessary. Weaving and Haley both did great jobs, but I would still argue there's a disconnect (that's not to say their performance was lacking, just that there are drawbacks to having your face obscured).

There's no such thing as "eyes of facial expression," but there are "muscles of facial expression" and that's what's important. Outside of being more comfortable, it's why the Batman masks have big eye openings so you can see the actors' facial muscles near the eyes

Also there's the voice.

I know this is a popular argument, but I find it to be a weak one. Yes, the muscles contort to portray an emotion, but the eyes are where we look to connect to that emotion. It's a cliche, but many a great actor has echoed the sentiment that it's all in the eyes.

So over the white lenses in live action.

Yep.

 

[Lencho01]

I know this is a popular argument, but I find it to be a weak one. Yes, the muscles contort to portray an emotion, but the eyes are where we look to connect to that emotion. It's a cliche, but many a great actor has echoed the sentiment that it's all in the eyes.

It's not the eyes. Eyes are only for vision. It's the whole face (specifically the muscles) and a person's voice that shows a person's emotions.

The best example of comparing the two is Raimi's Green Goblin. Dafoe being the fine actor that he is, was able to sell the various emotions of GG just with his voice. But, when he revealed his eyes he was able to sell his emotion even more rather than just have the static face the mask gave him. It's why some fans would've preferred some sort of prosthetic mask that could move.

[YT]vng1P29QbX4[/YT]

 

[Angel0fDeath]

It's not the eyes. Eyes are only for vision. It's the whole face (specifically the muscles) and a person's voice that shows a person's emotions.

The best example of comparing the two is Raimi's Green Goblin. Dafoe being the fine actor that he is, was able to sell the various emotions of GG just with his voice. But, when he revealed his eyes he was able to sell his emotion even more rather than just have the static face the mask gave him. It's why some fans would've preferred some sort of prosthetic mask that could move.

[YT]vng1P29QbX4[/YT]

I'm sorry, but that is just so so wrong.

 

[Clark-Kent]

I'm sorry, but that is just so so wrong.

Yeah, I think most will agree with you on this.

 

[Bruce Malone]

These are by far the best manips I've seen of the white lenses on the cowl... and all it does is solidify how lifeless and detached it is. I'm very glad they didn't go this direction.

Yup.

It gives off the vibe of "Batman" for sure but it also gives off generic person playing Batman not Ben Affleck actually playing Batman.

When studios get these name actors to play the role they want them to be seen.

Hell we should be glad Batman's mask only covers part of his face or in the movies he'd be losing his mask as much as Spider-Man does.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

I'm sorry, but that is just so so wrong.

I concur.

It's not the eyes. Eyes are only for vision. It's the whole face (specifically the muscles) and a person's voice that shows a person's emotions.

I don't disagree that the face and voice communicate emotion, but the eyes are where we look to make a connection with that emotion. Anyway, this topic's been discussed ad nauseum. Deadpool should be illuminating on the subject (though I suspect that if it's not well-received, people will just claim it wasn't executed well).

 

[Lencho01]

I'm sorry, but that is just so so wrong.

As a medical student, I know what I'm talking about.

I don't disagree that the face and voice communicate emotion, but the eyes are where we look to make a connection with that emotion. Anyway, this topic's been discussed ad nauseum. Deadpool should be illuminating on the subject (though I suspect that if it's not well-received, people will just claim it wasn't executed well).

It seems then we're talking about two different things. Not sure why you're looking for some sort of connection with the characters in their eyes. Based on that, I assume you think there's a need to see one's pupils, iris, etc. in order to make that connection. I'm talking about making expressions, to which the eyes themselves have nothing to do with.

 

[rockandrollsoul]

As a medical student, I know what I'm talking about.



It seems then we're talking about two different things. Not sure why you're looking for some sort of connection with the characters in their eyes. Based on that, I assume you think there's a need to see one's pupils, iris, etc. in order to make that connection. I'm talking about making expressions, to which the eyes themselves have nothing to do with.

That is what I'm talking about. I don't think anyone's arguing that the eyes themselves make expressions (though one could argue that the eyes tiny movements, pupil dilation, etc. can contribute to the emotion being expressed). I'm suggesting we need the eyes to make a connection to what the person is feeling.

Think about it: why else does one instinctively look into another's eyes when they're communicating? If they're only good for "seeing", then why don't we look directly at their facial muscles?

"The eyes are the window to the soul" is cliche for a reason: it's true. It's where we search for truth and understanding and how we connect with the feelings that one is expressing.

Just google "acting" and "eyes" and you'll likely find articles, books, and quotes from veteran actors on the subject. Michael "The Tangerine" Caine himself has a great book/video entitled Acting in Film in which he gives some powerful examples of just how much the eyes communicate.

 

[Boy Scout]

Isn't it actually the muscles around the eyes that communicate emotion? Let's say we Googled a few pictures of Affleck expressing a variety of emotions. If we cropped out everything but his eyes, would we be able to guess what he's feeling?

 

[Clark-Kent]

Isn't it actually the muscles around the eyes that communicate emotion? Let's say we Googled a few pictures of Affleck expressing a variety of emotions. If we cropped out everything but his eyes, would we be able to guess what he's feeling?

I think the movement of just the eyes, where they are looking, the speed at which they are shifting... is expressive as well.

 

[Lencho01]

That is what I'm talking about. I don't think anyone's arguing that the eyes themselves make expressions (though one could argue that the eyes tiny movements, pupil dilation, etc. can contribute to the emotion being expressed). I'm suggesting we need the eyes to make a connection to what the person is feeling.

Think about it: why else does one instinctively look into another's eyes when they're communicating? If they're only good for "seeing", then why don't we look directly at their facial muscles?

"The eyes are the window to the soul" is cliche for a reason: it's true. It's where we search for truth and understanding and how we connect with the feelings that one is expressing.

Just google "acting" and "eyes" and you'll likely find articles, books, and quotes from veteran actors on the subject. Michael "The Tangerine" Caine himself has a great book/video entitled Acting in Film in which he gives some powerful examples of just how much the eyes communicate.

There have been people who've said such things in the various discussions we've had on these boards.

To give the sense that you are communicating and they have your attention. You still observe their whole face to have the complete visual cue of who they're feeling.

So, it stands to reason that someone like Batman, who likes to strike fear in criminals would use white eyes to that effect, another factor people like to talk about sometimes when it comes to his suit.

In the second manip Riddler posted, you can somewhat see the iris. That seems like fine compromise for anyone truly interested in seeing Batman's eyes. Has been depicted that way plenty of times for him and other masked characters in the comics.

Isn't it actually the muscles around the eyes that communicate emotion? Let's say we Googled a few pictures of Affleck expressing a variety of emotions. If we cropped out everything but his eyes, would we be able to guess what he's feeling?

Yes. Take robots used in films for monsters or whatever as an example. Someone controls direction in which the eyes point towards while another people controls the brows and whatnot.