BvS The Batsuit Thread - Part 9

[Bathead]

I just wanted to add, the only realism I really care about in this kind of fantasy fare is how realistically normal people act under such unbelievable circumstances. If they get that right, it's all good.

 

[Afrobean]

Well, I think some people care too much about the "Why" of it all. At the end of the day, you could just say we're talking about some rich guy who dresses up as a bat and pummels mentally sick people from time to time.

If you just let it be weird like that because the source material is so weird, then you'll end up with a weird protagonist. Look at the film Super starring Rainn Wilson. Do you want Bruce Wayne to be that kind of character? I want Batman to be a pulp masked detective who sometimes takes on somewhat fantastical foes. I don't see how a such a weird Bruce Wayne could become the Batman that I want to see. A lot of people joke that Batman would have to be crazy to do what he does. Even Bale's Bruce Wayne made this joke. And in the comics, yeah, Bruce Wayne would be completely insane. But I don't want that. I don't want a character who paints white eyebrows onto his blue cowl. That's too weird. I mean, think about it, when Adam West's Bruce Wayne designed the bat suit, he had to sit down and design those wacky eyebrows. He made that decision. I don't want a Bruce Wayne who would make that decision. That's too weird. Even just choosing a bright blue cape would be too weird. What would make him choose that over the more logical brown or black? Bats are not blue!

And if you let the comic book cheese just be comic book cheese, you get camp. That doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a bad film if it's campy, but it's hard to have real drama alongside that camp. For example, The Avengers actually has a lot of camp in it, but it's mostly light-hearted tone makes it work. I really don't mind the camp when the tone is appropriate, but I don't see a live action Batman movie having the right tone for such camp any time soon, ESPECIALLY for a Batman that's in the same universe as Man of Steel. They went out of their way to give an "excuse" for Superman's "costume" in Man of Steel, so if Batman pops up wearing a wacky comic book costume that makes no sense as a character choice for Bruce Wayne, I'll be annoyed. I have to be able to believe that this man would make the choice to dress the way he does. I believe it when I see Captain America wear that ridiculous mask. It's not realistic, but I totally believe it. It has an internal logic to it. That's what I want from Batman.

 

[Lencho01]

If you just let it be weird like that because the source material is so weird, then you'll end up with a weird protagonist. Look at the film Super starring Rainn Wilson. Do you want Bruce Wayne to be that kind of character? I want Batman to be a pulp masked detective who sometimes takes on somewhat fantastical foes. I don't see how a such a weird Bruce Wayne could become the Batman that I want to see. A lot of people joke that Batman would have to be crazy to do what he does. Even Bale's Bruce Wayne made this joke. And in the comics, yeah, Bruce Wayne would be completely insane. But I don't want that. I don't want a character who paints white eyebrows onto his blue cowl. That's too weird. I mean, think about it, when Adam West's Bruce Wayne designed the bat suit, he had to sit down and design those wacky eyebrows. He made that decision. I don't want a Bruce Wayne who would make that decision. That's too weird. Even just choosing a bright blue cape would be too weird. What would make him choose that over the more logical brown or black? Bats are not blue!

And if you let the comic book cheese just be comic book cheese, you get camp. That doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a bad film if it's campy, but it's hard to have real drama alongside that camp. For example, The Avengers actually has a lot of camp in it, but it's mostly light-hearted tone makes it work. I really don't mind the camp when the tone is appropriate, but I don't see a live action Batman movie having the right tone for such camp any time soon, ESPECIALLY for a Batman that's in the same universe as Man of Steel. They went out of their way to give an "excuse" for Superman's "costume" in Man of Steel, so if Batman pops up wearing a wacky comic book costume that makes no sense as a character choice for Bruce Wayne, I'll be annoyed. I have to be able to believe that this man would make the choice to dress the way he does. I believe it when I see Captain America wear that ridiculous mask. It's not realistic, but I totally believe it. It has an internal logic to it. That's what I want from Batman.

Well, I don't know what to say since I find the idea of all these superheroes and how they dress inherently silly. It's part of the reason why I laugh at those guys who actually go out there to be "superheroes". So, I pretty much view the Adam West suit on equal terms of any of the major film suits. I don't take them anymore seriously than I take West's suit. I don't see anyone asking for the West suit anyway, so I see no point in bringing it up. But, if you're talking about color, I don't see the big deal about it too beyond saying "I don't like that color." There's no need to justify it by comparing it to the real color of bats or saying it's more tactical to dress in black. Spiders aren't red, blue, and black and people are fine with that. Iron Man (in the film) seemed to just pick his colors on a whim. It'd be pretty tactical for a person to not dress up as a bat too. But, we're not talking about a real life and the audience accepts it. I mean, we're talking about a dude who dresses up as a bat. So, if the dude wants to dress in black, grey, blue, whatever, then so be it.

Whatever colors he uses that aren't black isn't really going to take away from the tone unless the character/actor himself does so through his actions. That's why when you see this...

You know you're going to get something different from this...

 

[Bathead]

If you just let it be weird like that because the source material is so weird, then you'll end up with a weird protagonist. Look at the film Super starring Rainn Wilson. Do you want Bruce Wayne to be that kind of character? I want Batman to be a pulp masked detective who sometimes takes on somewhat fantastical foes. I don't see how a such a weird Bruce Wayne could become the Batman that I want to see. A lot of people joke that Batman would have to be crazy to do what he does. Even Bale's Bruce Wayne made this joke. And in the comics, yeah, Bruce Wayne would be completely insane. But I don't want that. I don't want a character who paints white eyebrows onto his blue cowl. That's too weird. I mean, think about it, when Adam West's Bruce Wayne designed the bat suit, he had to sit down and design those wacky eyebrows. He made that decision. I don't want a Bruce Wayne who would make that decision. That's too weird. Even just choosing a bright blue cape would be too weird. What would make him choose that over the more logical brown or black? Bats are not blue!

And if you let the comic book cheese just be comic book cheese, you get camp. That doesn't necessarily mean it has to be a bad film if it's campy, but it's hard to have real drama alongside that camp. For example, The Avengers actually has a lot of camp in it, but it's mostly light-hearted tone makes it work. I really don't mind the camp when the tone is appropriate, but I don't see a live action Batman movie having the right tone for such camp any time soon, ESPECIALLY for a Batman that's in the same universe as Man of Steel. They went out of their way to give an "excuse" for Superman's "costume" in Man of Steel, so if Batman pops up wearing a wacky comic book costume that makes no sense as a character choice for Bruce Wayne, I'll be annoyed. I have to be able to believe that this man would make the choice to dress the way he does. I believe it when I see Captain America wear that ridiculous mask. It's not realistic, but I totally believe it. It has an internal logic to it. That's what I want from Batman.

And that exactly is the kind of over-rationalizing I'm talking about. Staying faithful to the comics and not having everything be explained in a real world context with an excessive insistence that everything be "realistic" does not equal "Comic book cheese" or "camp", That's a ridiculous assertion to make.

 

[MrsKent26]

Does Batman's costume really need lots of explanation? I like things explained sometimes, but the reason for his suit is pretty simple. He's Batman and dresses like a bat to intimidate his enemies. His suit is black and grey because bats are. He wears a bat symbol because it goes with his whole fear and bats motif. He has a cowl to hide his identity and to look batish. He has a belt because he needs somewhere to keep all his crap. His suit might have some protective capacity for fighting, but is also flexible so he can move. Not that complicated. The audience could probably get most of that without it even being said.

 

[Boy Scout]

Batman can explain everything about the suit in one line.

"I'm obscenely rich."

 

[Afrobean]

Does Batman's costume really need lots of explanation?

No. An explanation isn't needed.

But we have to able to BELIEVE that the suit makes sense as a choice for the character. The situation and environment don't have to be realistic, but the audience should be able to see real character in the people on screen. We need to be able to understand and trust their motivations. You can't have characters do wacky things just because the source material says they should. This can lead to plot holes where people ask "why did they do that?" and the only answer that can be given is "because the script said so." I don't want a Bruce Wayne who does insane things and the only reason why is "lol comics".

So when I see the Arkham version of the Adam West suit above, it doesn't read as a masked detective to me. I don't see how a pulp character would wear that. It makes no sense for Bruce Wayne, billionaire vigilante. What it looks like to me is a lucha wrestler with an unusual bat theme. If Bruce Wayne was fighting Mexican wrestlers, that costume design makes a lot of sense, but if he's an urban ninja, butting heads with the alien god Superman, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

 

[Hagakure]

Would it be a horrendous crime, if they just used the costume design from Arkham City?

 

[MrsKent26]

No. An explanation isn't needed.

But we have to able to BELIEVE that the suit makes sense as a choice for the character. The situation and environment don't have to be realistic, but the audience should be able to see real character in the people on screen. We need to be able to understand and trust their motivations. You can't have characters do wacky things just because the source material says they should. This can lead to plot holes where people ask "why did they do that?" and the only answer that can be given is "because the script said so." I don't want a Bruce Wayne who does insane things and the only reason why is "lol comics".

So when I see the Arkham version of the Adam West suit above, it doesn't read as a masked detective to me. I don't see how a pulp character would wear that. It makes no sense for Bruce Wayne, billionaire vigilante. What it looks like to me is a lucha wrestler with an unusual bat theme. If Bruce Wayne was fighting Mexican wrestlers, that costume design makes a lot of sense, but if he's an urban ninja, butting heads with the alien god Superman, it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE.

I'm sure they'll try to make it at least somewhat plausible. I have a feeling we'll get a great suit with Snyder involved.

 

[MrsKent26]

Would it be a horrendous crime, if they just used the costume design from Arkham City?

Nope. That's not bad at all.

 

[Shedhut]

 

[regwec]

Does Batman's costume really need lots of explanation? I like things explained sometimes, but the reason for his suit is pretty simple. He's Batman and dresses like a bat to intimidate his enemies. His suit is black and grey because bats are. He wears a bat symbol because it goes with his whole fear and bats motif. He has a cowl to hide his identity and to look batish. He has a belt because he needs somewhere to keep all his crap. His suit might have some protective capacity for fighting, but is also flexible so he can move. Not that complicated. The audience could probably get most of that without it even being said.

That's it in a nutshell really. I've never heard anyone say that they struggle to understand the Batman/Batsuit concept.

All of these purported rationalisations are generally born out of somebody trying to defend a movie in which the suit looks ugly, by claiming the ugliness is in some way necessary.

 

[batsone]

Shedhut you should credit your sources for those.

 

[Shedhut]

Shedhut you should credit your sources for those.

Sorry, It's been a while.

The first one is by Mk1 (Milkman??? not sure). I did the blue/grey/Adam West mods though. Originally it was all black.

The second one, I have no idea.

The third one I have again no idea who originally did it. It was a combination of two different promoshots from Begins. I altered the cape around the neck, the eyes, the symbol, put him on a rope (TDKR inspired) and added the Dark Knight logo. This was around '07.

I'm mostly lurking for infos and opinions nowadays so I thought I could contribute a little.

Sorry again

 

[lujho]

Would it be a horrendous crime, if they just used the costume design from Arkham City?

The basic concept of that suit is more than fine, it just has details that need to be tweaked.

 

[lujho]

Sorry, It's been a while.

The first one is by Mk1 (Milkman??? not sure). I did the blue/grey/Adam West mods though. Originally it was all black.

Mk1 isn't the artist, it's a "Mark 1" suit design.

I can't remember who did the original manip, but it was definitely someone from these boards. Saint maybe?

 

[Lencho01]

Batman can explain everything about the suit in one line.

"I'm obscenely rich."

They should have a scene with Superman asking him why he's dressed that way. The scene must take place at a cafe.

 

[batsone]

Mk1 isn't the artist, it's a "Mark 1" suit design.

I can't remember who did the original manip, but it was definitely someone from these boards. Saint maybe?

The first one might be saint, the second is that awful vampire Batman manip from The mid 90's and the last one is by antmanx (68)?

 

[I SEE SPIDEY]

That's it in a nutshell really. I've never heard anyone say that they struggle to understand the Batman/Batsuit concept.

Exactly.

All of these purported rationalisations are generally born out of somebody trying to defend a movie in which the suit looks ugly, by claiming the ugliness is in some way necessary.

That's what I believe as well.

 

[Kane52630]

That batsuit ain't got no alibi.

 

[BattleAngel]

If you just let it be weird like that because the source material is so weird, then you'll end up with a weird protagonist.

My favorite Batman to date is Michael Keaton. To me, that is the closest we'll get to a REAL realistic Batman. He's not jacked - why? Because he's a billionare, and is kind of just entitled and falls back on his toys. He's so toy oriented that one of the best lines in the movie (and in movie history, imho) is "Where does he get those wonderful toys?" That's an honest-to-God American. He kills people with a bomb. The dude has a room full of exotic suits of armor. He has a huge fundraiser at his creepy mansion and no one even knows what he looks like. He's got a weird sense of humor to say the least.

That weird Batman is not my favorite Batman from the comics - but he is my favorite realistic American super hero. He's weird as hell. Like... *really* weird. He's also really smart, and really resourceful, and just good enough at fighting to be able to take down the dumbass goons he fought in both Burton-era films. Keaton's Batman wouldn't have stood a chance against Nolan's Bane or Ra's, for example. And I buy that for a super rich American in the 80s.

What would make him choose that [bright blue] over the more logical brown or black? Bats are not blue!

A brown/grey suit would truly be the most authentic to real bats. But as has been discussed before, washed out midnite blue and gray is damn good for night time city stealth, and better than all black.

And if you let the comic book cheese just be comic book cheese, you get camp.

I don't think the Burton-era Batman movies are campy - I think they are weird & psychedelic. I'll never get over Penguin coming down the stairs in his skivvies eating a raw fish and then biting a dude on the nose.

But if that's camp, I vastly prefer camp to haughty taughty faux-realism (ie. Bruce Wayne develops cold fusion, or literally any of the things that happen in TDKR).

I think Affleck's Batman is going to be ruthless, brutal, hyper intelligent, not particularly nice, and disciplined. I think he's going to be a dick, and a dick who is right about everything. I don't think he is going to lose his **** over a woman, let alone someone as boring as Rachel Dawes, and hang up the cape/cowl for 8 years just because she dies. THAT is cheese to me.

The weirdness of the 80s will be replaced with the detached feeling of the 21st century. I think he is going to be cold, with a well manicured exterior for the public, but an icy demeanor as Batman that is fueled by a molten lava-hot rage heart. Which is my favorite Batman from the comics.

 

[BattleAngel]

God damn, somehow missed this. I hope we get something close to it!

 

[Bathead]

It would be nice, But I doubt it will happen. But then again, ya never know.

(OK, wait for it ...)

 

[Superman_200]

God damn, somehow missed this. I hope we get something close to it!

That does look pretty cool.
I have never been much of a fan of Batman, I've seen some of the movies. I don't know though why some people complain about the Batman suits in the movies. Probably because I have never read the source material, so I never really understood what it is that the Batman fans have been waiting for. I think that suit there looks cool, but then again I think the ones in the Batman movies looked pretty cool too (at least in the Batman movies I have seen).

 

[regwec]

It would be nice, But I doubt it will happen. But then again, ya never know.

(OK, wait for it ...)

Its ok but leave off teh pantys!!!!