BvS The Batsuit Thread - Part 9

[The Guard]

That's one of the most disappointing shots in the trilogy. The cape looks awful there.

 

[Lencho01]

Agreed. Like it got all tangled up or something.

 

[regwec]

It got bunched up in his pants.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

Yeah completely agreed. The stories were great in TDKT, but there was a serious lack of iconic Batman visuals.

For me, this was one of the standout visuals from TDKT, and we can do a LOT better.

It's like Nolan completely ignored the fact that Batman has such iconic imagery. He completely neglected the creature of the night angle. I want to see a Batman that appears almost supernatural to criminals. Like the Arkham Origins screenshot posted above.

Or he didn't care. I hate it when people let Nolan get a pass at dull visuals because the stories are complex and have depth.

Is it too hard to have both?

 

[regwec]

The depth and complexity is frequently overstated.

I think that the combination of dull visuals, stilted dialogue, and the fact that characters were given monologues flagging up half-explored themes, leads some people into seeing depth when all there is is forced perspective.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I do think there's a lot of truth to that. The themes are laid out right in front of the audience, rather than hidden behind the dialog and images. Thus the people who understand the themes sometimes pride themselves for recognizing it, and therefore let their egos dictate how they view the films themselves.

 

[MrsKent26]

Or he didn't care. I hate it when people let Nolan get a pass at dull visuals because the stories are complex and have depth.

Is it too hard to have both?

It is hard. Every director has his/her flaws.

But perhaps with this new writer on board for BvsS, we'll get some good writing and Snyder visuals.

 

[Mr. Finger]

It is hard. Every director has his/her flaws.

But perhaps with this new writer on board for BvsS, we'll get some good writing and Snyder visuals.

I am hoping for the same.
To me? Goyer is/was a disease... And the character of Batman can be handled soooo much better.
And for Christ sakes.. Can we please get a Black and Grey suit already?
Less dialogue from the Dark Knight..
More work in the shadows..
Shorter ears..
Material instead of rubber..
More detective work.. And please, no more Samuel Jackson type monologues. This is not a Tarintino film.

 

[MrsKent26]

Well, you aren't rid of Goyer totally. But they will have to make this Batman different from the Nolan Batman, so you might get your wish on the rest.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ Yeah. I also feel that Pfister intentionally has subdued visuals so that the audience pays more attention to the characters. I find Following to be more visually striking than Memento, and Nolan did the cinematography himself for his earlier feature.

“They’d shoot from some odd angle and I’d think, why is the camera there? Oh, I see, because they spent half a million on the set and they have to show it off. It took me completely out of the movie. I was driven bonkers by that illogical form of storytelling.” -Wally Pfister, on TA.

I'm all for showing off sets. There is more to movies than people, after all

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

I am hoping for the same.
To me? Goyer is/was a disease... And the character of Batman can be handled soooo much better.
And for Christ sakes.. Can we please get a Black and Grey suit already?
Less dialogue from the Dark Knight..
More work in the shadows..
Shorter ears..
Material instead of rubber..
More detective work.. And please, no more Samuel Jackson type monologues. This is not a Tarintino film.

Batman Begins.. was the best characterization of him of the Nolan trilogy. And a good chunk of that is Goyer.

That being said, I'd rather the animation writers tackle him.

 

[ThePhantasm]

The depth and complexity is frequently overstated.

I think that the combination of dull visuals, stilted dialogue, and the fact that characters were given monologues flagging up half-explored themes, leads some people into seeing depth when all there is is forced perspective.

^ I do think there's a lot of truth to that. The themes are laid out right in front of the audience, rather than hidden behind the dialog and images. Thus the people who understand the themes sometimes pride themselves for recognizing it, and therefore let their egos dictate how they view the films themselves.

I think this is exactly right, and I say that as someone who enjoys the Nolan films. There's an element of over-telegraphed meaning that is enjoyed by the pretentious but simple-minded. In some sense that's okay - comics often do the same thing (and as a Nolan fan I'm not saying all Nolan fans are simple-minded). But it does lead to an over-inflated evaluation of the film's merits in certain instances.

I dislike being beat over the head with the "meaning" of the story, like "get it? get it now?" Nolan tends in this direction with his over-exposition.

Nolan and Snyder have perfected the craft of making summertime fun entertainment that very simply and directly presents powerful imagery in a way that the audience doesn't have to dig for it or think very hard to get to the main themes of the films. Its a weird but successful blend. The audience thinks they are watching higher art in a sense but they are also being entertained in a popcorn sort of way. I think its a good model in that it sets them apart from Marvel, which focuses more exclusively on the popcorn side. Its a good way to make lots of money and still have your films taken really seriously.

 

[Ultra Nolanite]

That's one of the most disappointing shots in the trilogy. The cape looks awful there.

Phew I thought I was the only one who hated the cape in that shot. It was done much much better in Batman Begins.

You think there's a hundred guys looking at that shot during editing and one of them would go "Hey, cape looks weird. Or "That could look better."

This is where Snyder has the edge on Nolan. You're going to see some good capeage in this movie.

 

[TheFlamingCoco]

^ I think pretty much everything visual or action oriented Snyder has the edge. I'd even go as far to say that Snyder has the edge in terms of capturing the stylization of comics. But he needs help with original work.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

It's like Nolan completely ignored the fact that Batman has such iconic imagery. He completely neglected the creature of the night angle. I want to see a Batman that appears almost supernatural to criminals. Like the Arkham Origins screenshot posted above.

Exactly. This is precisely why Wayne chooses to dress up as a bat, to give the impression that he is of a diabolical nature. In taking that element away, he appears rather foolish.

I imagine getting the bogieman aspect of the character across on film is a bit complicated, though. You don't want Bats to look too scary -- it's a very thin line. That said, if anyone can do it right, it's Zack Snyder.

 

[MrsKent26]

They got the whole "boogie-man" creature of the night aspect right a bit in BB, but then seemed to forget about it.

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

They got the whole "boogie-man" creature of the night aspect right a bit in BB, but then seemed to forget about it.

I never told anyone this before, but, having watched Batman Begins, I was completely underwhelmed by Wayne's first appearance in the costume. What should have been a quintessential Batman scene was nothing of the kind. To make matters worse, they just HAD to have Bale utter those ridiculous lines to the hobo about his newly acquired coat. Why?

 

[MrsKent26]

I agree that his first outing wasn't that epic, but I let it pass because he was learning, but when he pops out of nowhere meeting those thugs in a tireyard or something (or maybe it was a storage yard, can't remember), that was very Batmanesque. I wish they had continued with that. I did like when he appeared behind the Joker in the interrogation room when the lights went on. That's how Batman is to me. He sneaks around in the darkness and pops out of nowhere.

 

[Shikamaru]

The strength of Nolan's Batman is in how well they executed the idea of Batman, not necessarily Batman himself.

 

[Jekecy]

Yeah completely agreed. The stories were great in TDKT, but there was a serious lack of iconic Batman visuals.

For me, this was one of the standout visuals from TDKT, and we can do a LOT better.

It's like Nolan completely ignored the fact that Batman has such iconic imagery. He completely neglected the creature of the night angle. I want to see a Batman that appears almost supernatural to criminals. Like the Arkham Origins screenshot posted above.

This looked cool in the trailers, but in the movie itself its placement was bad. Completely random and it actually made me think why in the world he would spend his time up on that bridge.

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

i'm agreeing with every criticism of nolan from the last two pages

i'm just waiting for the fire and brimstone cascade from the nolanites

 

[Boy Scout]

This looked cool in the trailers, but in the movie itself its placement was bad. Completely random and it actually made me think why in the world he would spend his time up on that bridge.

Same. "I need to find a way to get the bomb out of the city before it detonates, but FIRST...I need to shave my beard...paint a giant bat onto the side of a bridge with gasoline...and pose dramatically as the sun rises over the horizon."

 

[ArmsHeldOut]

That's how Batman is to me. He sneaks around in the darkness and pops out of nowhere.

I agree, but I also like it when he faces his opponents head-on, and we all get to see how wonderfully skilled he is. You also have people out there who need everything shown to them in explicit detail. For instance, when BB first came out, I remember reading a review from a critic who was under the false impression that Batman had to sneak up on the bad guys all the time so as to get the better of them.

 

[MrsKent26]

I agree, but I also like it when he faces his opponents head-on, and we all get to see how wonderfully skilled he is. You also have people out there who need everything shown to them in explicit detail. For instance, when BB first came out, I remember reading a review from a critic who was under the false impression that Batman had to sneak up on the bad guys all the time so as to get the better of them.

Well, some people just don't get the character, like that critic. He doesn't need to sneak up, but he does to throw people off and scare them. He's not a cuddly crime-fighter. He is the night!

They could show his moves better so people know he's skilled.

 

[Lencho01]

Same. "I need to find a way to get the bomb out of the city before it detonates, but FIRST...I need to shave my beard...paint a giant bat onto the side of a bridge with gasoline...and pose dramatically as the sun rises over the horizon."

There's this hilarious comic with Gordon asking how long it took him and thinking it was worth it because of how cool it looked.