Gotham The Official Cameron Monaghan As Jerome Valeska/(Possibly) The Joker

[Ozbridge]

So, Jeremiah won’t be referred to as Joker, and may not even be him! What?!

http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/04/17/gotham-jeremiah-not-the-joker/

Excuse me because I never read comics so I have no significant interest in this but if Cameron portrays a character that is perfectly like the Joker in the comic (according to you) and there's no other character called The Joker in the show, is this THAT important for you for Cameron's character to be actually called The Joker?

 

[Pennywise]

Excuse me because I never read comics so I have no significant interest in this but if Cameron portrays a character that is perfectly like the Joker in the comic (according to you) and there's no other character called The Joker in the show, is this THAT important for you for Cameron's character to be actually called The Joker?

No, it’s just somewhat disappointing! I’m still really excited for the storyline though!

 

[Arachnerd]

Again, read my responses on the 4x18 thread and general thread.

 

[Pennywise]

Again, read my responses on the 4x14 thread and general thread.

I just did! Thanks for the clarification!

 

[Pennywise]

There was a changing of the Valeska guard on Gotham this past week. After multiple seasons of seeing Jerome (Cameron Monaghan) grow increasingly insane, the villain's reign came to an end, though he corrupted the mind of his twin brother Jeremiah (Also Monaghan) to become an entirely new kind of evil in this place.

These two men share a lot in common. Aside from the fact that they're identical twins, and they each of some violent tendencies, both were modeled after DC's most iconic comic villain, the Joker. Still, despite these similarities, don't expect Jeremiah to become anything like Jerome in the coming episodes.

ComicBook.com had the chance to speak with Gotham executive producer Danny Cannon after last week's devastating episode, and we asked him what we could expect from Jeremiah going forward. How closely in Jerome's footsteps would he follow?

"Well, I think the difference between them, there was something nihilistic about Jerome," Cannon told us. "There's something nihilistic about Jerome, and chaotic. The idea of bringing chaos to the world and destroying things, and I think the difference with Jeremiah is, he's a brilliant mind. He's an engineer by nature, he's rational, he's calculated. He still has the same psychotic tendencies now as his brother. Therefore, you have a more lethal, terrifying villain who is going to be a lot smarter than his brother was, and is going to be more calculating."

http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/04/18/gotham-jeremiah-joker-differences-season-4/A

 

[Arachnerd]

Cameron had actually already stated Joker (yes, that's obviously who he's supposed to be and that's what I'll call him from now on) would be new and subtle, so it's not surprising. I can see know why Camereon posted those Hannibal Lector tweets about a month ago.

 

[Arachnerd]

Bumpity bumpity.

Spoiler

 

[Pennywise]

Bumpity bumpity.

Spoiler

He looks fantastic! t:

 

[Darkness Falls]

i love the eyes

 

[ironman29758]

Plus some Jeremiah Joker concept art

Bumpity bumpity.

Spoiler

I love most of this look. I only wish this look had more shading around his eyes (which are extremely haunting and fitting of the Joker look), this was pretty perfect look to be honest.

 

[ComicBookNerd]

I’m sort of cool with Jerome & Jeremiah not becoming the Joker. I always thought of The Joker as many people instead of just one guy. At the same time, Cameron Monaghan has been one of the greatest depictions of the character that I have ever seen (right up there with Mark Hamill, Jack Nicholson, & Heath Ledger).

 

[Arachnerd]

They are, but they aren't. It's a complicated situation.

But I'm 100% sure Jeremiah is meant to be Gotham's Joker, despite not having the name.

 

[Pennywise]

According to Cameron Monaghan's Instagram, it sounds like Jeremiah will also be referred to as "J". Makes me wonder if we'll hear someone such as a henchmen call him Mr. J?

 

[Arachnerd]

It's basically gift-wrapped for them if they want to.

 

[ComicBookNerd]

According to Cameron Monaghan's Instagram, it sounds like Jeremiah will also be referred to as "J". Makes me wonder if we'll hear someone such as a henchmen call him Mr. J?

Why can’t Barbara Kean be Harleen Quinzel?!

 

[Arachnerd]

Umm...why would she be?

 

[ComicBookNerd]

Umm...why would she be?

She’s perfect.

 

[Ozbridge]

Why can’t Barbara Kean be Harleen Quinzel?!

No one has said that she can’t. And Harley Quinn hasn’t appeared yet so there’s always a chance.

 

[Darkness Falls]

i'd be happy to see ecco in a similar role

 

[Arachnerd]

I would rather Ecco be Harley Quinn (if she ever actually gets introduced later on in the show) than Barbara. Her character is already flipflopping all over the place, and it's starting to get grating.

 

[NotNickFury]

The only reason I could somewhat think people want to see Barbara as Harley or a Harley-type is because of them being paired up during "Last Laugh" in Season 2, down to her even having a hammer and being Jerome's assistant. Though admittedly, that could be anyone, but in the end, yeah, that role should probably go to Echo.

 

[Zant]

I would rather Ecco be Harley Quinn (if she ever actually gets introduced later on in the show) than Barbara. Her character is already flipflopping all over the place, and it's starting to get grating.

The writers have no clue what to do with the Barbara and Ivy characters, do they?

They will pointlessly make Barbara.... Harley and cast another Poison Ivy actress very soon...

 

[Arachnerd]

Awesome fan art by William Gray on Twitter. Love the symbolism.

 

[ironman29758]

So apparently someone on Reddit, leaked a few spoilers for the next few episodes, I don't know if it's true or not, but it seems exciting on what happens next:

Spoiler

• Jongleur and the Jester aren't the same character. Jongleur was in fact seen in the latest trailer alongside the Jester. The Jester is Ecco, and you can probably guess what Ecco's real name is revealed to be. She wasn't just Jeremiah's physical bodyguard, but also his psychological crutch.
• Jeremiah is the Joker, and he will be called that, but not in so much of a titular sense. "Alright mate, got ourselves some kind of joker here now, have we?"
• Jerome is back, but he's still dead. He continues to haunt Jeremiah and push him to become the 'new' Joker. The gas brings up repressed guilt from lying about Jerome as a child, makes him hallucinate Jerome tormenting him, he becomes more and more unstable, convinced that Jerome is in fact alive and coming for him. This is reinforced by plans Jerome made before his death where he arranged for his body to be removed from its coffin, and he recorded several videos to be aired following Cult attacks, intended to make it look as if he survived and is still on the loose. This is all responsible for giving Jeremiah the Joker's classic psychosis. (This is what's meant by the synopsis of a friend of Bruce's becoming paranoid and reckless.)
• Jeremiah also develops a sort of split personality similar to Ed & Nygma, where the 'Joker' carries out acts of terror and Jeremiah remains oblivious, before they eventually become one and the same.
• There is a second and more traditional Joker transformation, but sadly the hair doesn't turn green.
• Renewal isn't looking likely, so this may be the last few episodes which is why they're going all out.

That's all I got for now.

If this is true, season 4 really can't be the end because it seems they are really hitting their stride more than ever. I think Gotham should end season 5 or 6. Especially based on the script that was leaked a while now. And CBR reminded me why I hate their lists, and why I like for the most part what Gotham did with Jerome and the Joker's influence even with the Twin trope they did:

https://www.cbr.com/dc-tv-villains/

One of the most appealing things about the Joker is the totally ambiguous nature of how he came to be the Clown Prince of Crime. There have been myriad telling and potential origins of the character throughout the years. Some of which hold more water than others. But the fact that his backstory is basically a multiple choice answer, depending on who is writing the comic and how the Joker feels that day (or which Joker we’re talking about) keeps him fresh and has for 80 years.
When Gotham took a stab at creating a Joker-esque character, many decisions the show made were great, but ultimately lead nowhere. The character of Jerome was indeed a menacing antagonist, and if the story had added up to something more than just a cheap fake out at the end, it would have been another great tale in the Joker mythos, but alas.

My problem with this is that Jerome has been stated since season 2 as not being the Joker, and was a Joker red-herring from the beginning, and he is more like the influencing force/presence of the Joker of Gotham (not to mention there are a lot of time Joker has died or been assumed Jerome at the last minute was revealed never to be the Joker. Yes he has Joker traits, but he was always stated to being the foundation of the Joker legacy, showing how the Joker is more than a man he is an ideal which is showcased so many times. Also there is Jeremiah who just got introduced and is going to be developed in the next 3 episodes showing the influence Jerome has on Jeremiah and Gotham as well.

It seems like a nitpick argument automatically writing off Gotham's take on the Joker (And slightly praising it) before seeing how they actually present the Joker to be honest.

 

[Pennywise]

So apparently someone on Reddit, leaked a few spoilers for the next few episodes, I don't know if it's true or not, but it seems exciting on what happens next:


If this is true, season 4 really can't be the end because it seems they are really hitting their stride more than ever. I think Gotham should end season 5 or 6. Especially based on the script that was leaked a while now. And CBR reminded me why I hate their lists, and why I like for the most part what Gotham did with Jerome and the Joker's influence even with the Twin trope they did:

https://www.cbr.com/dc-tv-villains/



My problem with this is that Jerome has been stated since season 2 as not being the Joker, and was a Joker red-herring from the beginning, and he is more like the influencing force/presence of the Joker of Gotham (not to mention there are a lot of time Joker has died or been assumed Jerome at the last minute was revealed never to be the Joker. Yes he has Joker traits, but he was always stated to being the foundation of the Joker legacy, showing how the Joker is more than a man he is an ideal which is showcased so many times. Also there is Jeremiah who just got introduced and is going to be developed in the next 3 episodes showing the influence Jerome has on Jeremiah and Gotham as well.

It seems like a nitpick argument automatically writing off Gotham's take on the Joker (And slightly praising it) before seeing how they actually present the Joker to be honest.

If true, I like the spoilers for the most part, except for [BLACKOUT]Jeremiah switching between the Joker and Jeremiah personalities as that has already been done with Riddler. The second transformation sounds very intriguing and gives me hope we will see the chemical bath![/BLACKOUT]

I am bummed out that this may be the final season as S4 has been the best of the series so far, and so enjoyable! Somewhat reminds me of shows such as Hannibal where they can be cliffhanger or series finale, depending on whether the network decides to ax the show! I always get sad when stuff like that happens!