The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 1

[Gamma Ra]

I think it's really hard to tell a "definative" Hulk story, especially when you look at the fact the character is constantly changing and has so many different stories;one minute he's fighting Ross and the army, the next he's in the future/different dimension/alien planet/his own mindscape,etc can be hard to translate that into a single film

Not really. They could either use one particular incarnation; or show a gradual growth; or they could play into the fractured Banner's psyche, but there are many ways to play into it if it's consistent in the story.

I don't know if you read comic books; but there is not one character who hasn 't been in the "constantly changing" scenario you just painted. That's part of the fantasy aspect of comics..the" through the looking glass" if you will. They all tend to end up in wonderland at some point in their careers.

[YT]qe2Bgux2lRA [/YT]

LOL.

I'm not sure where I heard it first.

I seriously can't think of anything cooler than the guys battling the Hulk for a little while. Not one thing.

This MUST be big. I think a fight through the mountainous country side is in order.

 

[Gamma Ra]

Feige on Hulk television and Ruffalo's Banner...I really have no doubt about Ruffalo -

http://www.**************.com/fansi...usses_Mark_Ruffalos_Portrayal_Of_Bruce_Banner


Mark Ruffalo interview...I swear this will be BIXBY good (LOL...you crazy guys)...Look at that picture...He's channeling Bill...

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/mark-ruffalo-explains-how-he-goes-from-playing-a-priest-to-the-hulk/

 

[ArtTeacher]

I swear this will be BIXBY good

There's good...and then there's Bixby good.
I love it!

 

[Roose Bolton]

I don't know if you read comic books; but there is not one character who hasn 't been in the "constantly changing" scenario you just painted. That's part of the fantasy aspect of comics..the" through the looking glass" if you will. They all tend to end up in wonderland at some point in their careers.

Sure it happens a lot in comics, but wheras with a character like say, spiderman, you can nail down the appeal there, most of spidermans storys revolve in one way or another around his exploits in new york and his struggle with his secret identidy/personal life, wheras with the Hulk you have stories like "ground zero', "tempest fugit", "future imperfect", "the crossroads saga" and "planet Hulk" that are all radically different in tone,style, and even in the personality of the protagonist.

 

[Whiskey Tango]

Gamma Ra's preferred version may not be "the end all, be all" for everyone, but his version *IS* the iconic, classic version that the majority of the general audience is familiar with.

First I'd say the majority of general audiences are most familiar with Ferrigno's version (maybe the reason the last movie drew ao heavily from it), but for your argument lets assume the majority of the general audience read Hulk comics when they were a kid.

But yeah, Savage Hulk, drawn by Sal Buscema and others, but most think of Sal's when they envision him. The same one that fights the army constantly and has had violent misunderstandings with virtually every hero he's met over the years. The one that left the Avengers almost as soon as he joined. The one that throws hellacious temper tantrums and then hops off to sulk. The one that doesn't play well with others and makes for a piss poor teammate.

Good luck working that version into Avengers as anything other than an obstacle for the rest of the team to overcome.

Personally I'd prefer a version more akin to the Avengers cartoon - an ill tempered ****er, yes, but one not so prone to the "leave Hulk alone" routine that makes the classic version we all know and love an awesome character but a terrible teammate.

But then, as soon as you give him enough smarts/patience/maturity to work with the rest of the Avengers, you're left with a Hulk that is cool but significantly different from the version on your underoos.

edit: yes I'm aware of the Defenders, no I don't know the specifics.

 

[Gamma Ra]

There's good...and then there's Bixby good.
I love it!

That's right. It's a whole 'nother level of good-ness.

Sure it happens a lot in comics, but wheras with a character like say, spiderman, you can nail down the appeal there, most of spidermans storys revolve in one way or another around his exploits in new york and his struggle with his secret identidy/personal life, wheras with the Hulk you have stories like "ground zero', "tempest fugit", "future imperfect", "the crossroads saga" and "planet Hulk" that are all radically different in tone,style, and even in the personality of the protagonist.

It's funny that you mention Spidey. I thought Sony messed up by making him a beloved hero. by the masses. I thought they should have gone the "undecided" route where the average citizen is unsure what to make of of him, or look at him as an outlaw due to J. Jonah Jameson's influence. Too bad for Spidey cause Batman took it and ran with it.

You're talking about stories that evolved over 30 years an not just throw out there to the public. You're overlooking the stories and events that took him from point A to point B. Those may be different types of stories, but the core of the character was still there. Spidey and Hulk face different dangers, mainly due to their different power levels. Compare Hulk to Thor, Superman, Dr.Strange or Iron Man and you'll find tha they have been in many of the same weird or closely resembled scenarios. I agree that the tones differ in the stories because of Hulk being more of the misunderstood monster. Hulk is not the conventional hero by any means. He doesn't go looking for the cat stuck in the tree to rescue it for the pleading little girl, but if he just happened to be in the neighborhood, he'd do the good deed.

Part of the appeal of Hulk for me is that most of the ironic conflicts that surround his life are based largely on misunderstandings, emotions, ego-tripping and fear. He's not out looking for trouble because he would really prefer to be left alone and fit in, he doesn't have any evil agendas but conflict tend to arise because he's constantly hunted, he looks like a threat, and he doesn't take kindly to threats or demands...Yeah, he's an emotional hothead. He doesn't provoke anyone that didn't have it coming yes, he has this anger problems that when push comes to shove...he's shoving harder. But he won't shove first or go looking for someone to shove.

Hulk loathes most of humanity, and he's not afraid to rub the WHY in their face (telling them about themselves) I believe, because he sees them as arrogant trouble making idiots that hide behind weapons, to hide the fact that they are puny. Hulk is extremely unique like that. And Marvels missing out on it. There is so much to be said on his appeal, but I don't want to get accused of making more blanket statements.

He's the MISUNDERSTOOD MONSTER...and not unbridled fury.

 

[Atomicchuck3k]

but near the end of TIH movie, he seemed more Savage with the "HULK SMASH" and "Bet-ty" which was cool.

To me before the end credits rolled on TIH, when Banner was meditating and then smirked while his eyes turned green, I assumed he was becoming the Banner-Hulk.

 

[The Morningstar]

Yea perhaps he has learned to have some more influence over the Hulk persona? Sorta like Professor Hulk, which is probably my favourite version of the character incidentally.

 

[Gamma Ra]

First I'd say the majority of general audiences are most familiar with Ferrigno's version (maybe the reason the last movie drew ao heavily from it), but for your argument lets assume the majority of the general audience read Hulk comics when they were a kid.

But yeah, Savage Hulk, drawn by Sal Buscema and others, but most think of Sal's when they envision him. The same one that fights the army constantly and has had violent misunderstandings with virtually every hero he's met over the years. The one that left the Avengers almost as soon as he joined. The one that throws hellacious temper tantrums and then hops off to sulk. The one that doesn't play well with others and makes for a piss poor teammate.

Good luck working that version into Avengers as anything other than an obstacle for the rest of the team to overcome.

Personally I'd prefer a version more akin to the Avengers cartoon - an ill tempered ****er, yes, but one not so prone to the "leave Hulk alone" routine that makes the classic version we all know and love an awesome character but a terrible teammate.

But then, as soon as you give him enough smarts/patience/maturity to work with the rest of the Avengers, you're left with a Hulk that is cool but significantly different from the version on your underoos.

edit: yes I'm aware of the Defenders, no I don't know the specifics.

I'm not sure that the Ferrigno Hulk is the most familiar. There were the three Hulk cartoons and I think the '82 was extremely popular at the time as it even out billed Spidey. I think the live show appealed and drew in the adult crowd is all.

Actually the Hulk that joined the Avengers was the Gravage / Green Scar Hulk, the same that's in the cartoon Earth's Mightiest Avengers and Sal is famous for drawing the Savage Hulk.

Your views of Hulk's actions plays into my response above about him being a Misunderstood Monster. Hulk left the Avengers due to the fact that he felt disrespected. He heard how they mocked him, made fun of him and feared him when the Space Phantom posed as him. He took it really personal...but that's Hulk. Hulk doesn't go looking for tanks and planes to smash, he smashes them because they are shooting at him. Much like the Frankenstein monster...he didn't /doesn't do anything to cause the reaction, it's just the natural fear of him that incites attacks, because he does look intimidating and because his attitude does not help the situation.

There's nothing wrong with the portrayal of Hulk in the Avengers cartoon. That is exactly how I view him reacting to the team if they showed him the respect. It's different in the comics. There was an episode of TAEMHs where Captain America was barking orders and Hulk gave him a "Who the #### you talking to look" before he helped out and another scene where Hawkeye was talking trash to him, so Hulk just turned his back on him and left him to fend for himself...PERFECT.

Hulk in the show has just the right amount of smarts, he could be a little more aggressive for the movie.

Other than his toned slightly down aggressiveness. The Hulk in that show is no different from the Hulk that has been written in The TIH comic since Tempest Fugit. He works with those that respect and understand him just fine.

 

[Cracker Jack]

well at the time they hired an academy award winning director, clearly they wanted to make the movie a big dramatic serious film, they can't be blamed for having faith in Ang lee ( who at the time was held in high regard)

That's my point as AT said. Sure they may have wanted to have a big block buster but they didn't know what the hell they were doing. Ang Lee is a great Movie director, no doubt. But great for a Summer Block Buster? No. If you want to win the Kentucky Derby you don't want to enter a show horse.

Side Bar

Just got back from Thor. Man was that a damn good COMIC BOOK movie. And I never really liked Thor. Being a Hulk fan and all. t: Super Fun.

 

[Gamma Ra]

To me before the end credits rolled on TIH, when Banner was meditating and then smirked while his eyes turned green, I assumed he was becoming the Banner-Hulk.

I see your see how you can take it that way and it's possible, but to me it's still up in the air. He was about to change and his eyes were glowing green, but was it Banner smiling or a Hulk persona emerging? Since we're not clear, it leaves avenues open to take in in a few directions.

Lately in the comics the Hulk personality whether it's savage or more civil, depends on how Banner views his relationship to Hulk. If they can function in the same space and time Hulk is more articulate, but if Banner tries to distance himself fom his Hulk persona, Hulk becomes Savage. MS maybe going this route.

Yea perhaps he has learned to have some more influence over the Hulk persona? Sorta like Professor Hulk, which is probably my favourite version of the character incidentally.

I hate the name Professor Hulk (blah) though I liked the Merged Hulk stories by Peter David as they served the continuing saga of the Hulk mythos well, as well as the Banner-Hulk stories did earlier. It bought substance to what is going on in Bruce's head. How-ever I don't care to see them EVER on the big screen, unless if only for dramatic brief instances...My opinion only.

 

[ArtTeacher]

Just got back from Thor. Man was that a damn good COMIC BOOK movie.
And I never really liked Thor. Being a Hulk fan and all. t:

Ha ha! It's true...Thor fans and Hulk fans haven't had the most rosey of relationships...but with The Avengers movie, the two of them fighting side-by-side against a common foe, the whole will be greater than the sum of the parts. It's like when Tom & Jerry teamed up against Spike the bulldog, they kicked so much more butt than when fighting each other.
To think--the strength of the Hulk and the power of Thor both focused against a villain...add in some Iron Man and Red, White, & Blue...it's not a good day to be a bad guy.

 

[Kirmit]

I've always liked Thor and Hulk, moreso Hulk though. It just really bugs me when people say Thor should easily beat Hulk when most of the times they've met in the past its either been a draw or Hulk won, with a few Thor wins aswell.

 

[Iceman]

They're both completely awesome!!

 

[The Morningstar]

Well to be fair, Thor could just dimension dump Hulk. But that wouldn't make for an interesting read. So they have long, drawn out battles, where Hulk usually wins, because he's more popular.

 

[Atomicchuck3k]

So they have long, drawn out battles, where Hulk usually wins, because he's more popular.

NO, because Hulk strongest there is!

 

[Kirmit]

Well to be fair, Thor could just dimension dump Hulk. But that wouldn't make for an interesting read. So they have long, drawn out battles, where Hulk usually wins, because he's more popular.

True, Thor could do this with anyone he's fighting but for some reason never does.

 

[Gamma Ra]

That's my point as AT said. Sure they may have wanted to have a big block buster but they didn't know what the hell they were doing. Ang Lee is a great Movie director, no doubt. But great for a Summer Block Buster? No. If you want to win the Kentucky Derby you don't want to enter a show horse.

Side Bar

Just got back from Thor. Man was that a damn good COMIC BOOK movie. And I never really liked Thor. Being a Hulk fan and all. t: Super Fun.

Yeah at the end of the day the Hulk movie came down to people pointing fingers at each other and Ang catching the wrath.

I can't wait to see the Thor movie. I like Thor, just no where as near as I do Hulk. But I like them hot headed and hard headed - brawlers and Thor fits the queue.

CJ, How was it 1 - 10.

Ha ha! It's true...Thor fans and Hulk fans haven't had the most rosey of relationships...but with The Avengers movie, the two of them fighting side-by-side against a common foe, the whole will be greater than the sum of the parts. It's like when Tom & Jerry teamed up against Spike the bulldog, they kicked so much more butt than when fighting each other.
To think--the strength of the Hulk and the power of Thor both focused against a villain...add in some Iron Man and Red, White, & Blue...it's not a good day to be a bad guy.

I just hope the fight first before joining forces in the Avengers.

 

[Alientraveller]

True, Thor could do this with anyone he's fighting but for some reason never does.

"Where's the fight in that?!"

 

[Gamma Ra]

I've always liked Thor and Hulk, moreso Hulk though. It just really bugs me when people say Thor should easily beat Hulk when most of the times they've met in the past its either been a draw or Hulk won, with a few Thor wins aswell.

I concur. I dig them both but Hulk rules all.

That kills me too when people think because Thor is a "god" he should beat Hulk. The thing about Hulk is...he doesn't care....and it doesn't matter, what you are, especially when it's time to smash something.

 

[Atomicchuck3k]

I concur. I dig them both but Hulk rules all.

That kills me too when people think because Thor is a "god" he should beat Hulk. The thing about Hulk is...he doesn't care....and it doesn't matter, what you are, especially when it's time to smash something.

Aye, thy words are true and just.

 

[Gamma Ra]

well to be fair, thor could just dimension dump hulk. But that wouldn't make for an interesting read. So they have long, drawn out battles, where hulk usually wins, because he's more popular.

no, because hulk strongest there is!

this!!!

 

[Kirmit]

I concur. I dig them both but Hulk rules all.

That kills me too when people think because Thor is a "god" he should beat Hulk. The thing about Hulk is...he doesn't care....and it doesn't matter, what you are, especially when it's time to smash something.

That's the exact thing that bugs me, when they say Thor is a god so he should win, it all depends on Marvel's definition of a god and at the end of the day in the Marvel universe that's just a title.

 

[Gamma Ra]

That's the exact thing that bugs me, when they say Thor is a god so he should win, it all depends on Marvel's definition of a god and at the end of the day in the Marvel universe that's just a title.

What they fail to realize is that Hulk is god-like in his own right. He has unlimited strength, he can heal from virtually anything and like most movie monsters, it seems due to his curse (Banner's) even death can't stop him (yeah he'll come back to life on ya), Hulk may well be immortal. Hulk has smashed many a 'god' before.

The only thing that make gods gods in Marvel is their longevity (seeming immortality) and innate ability to manipulate cosmic and magical energies is all. No one can prove otherwise.

 

[Cracker Jack]

Yeah at the end of the day the Hulk movie came down to people pointing fingers at each other and Ang catching the wrath..

Admitedly I was one of those. It wasn't Ang's fault. It was the producers who ok'd the script and the changes.

I can't wait to see the Thor movie. I like Thor, just no where as near as I do Hulk. But I like them hot headed and hard headed - brawlers and Thor fits the queue.

CJ, How was it 1 - 10.

I just hope the fight first before joining forces in the Avengers.

This might just be my kneejerk recation but I really liked it. I like Thor. He loves to fight. This is why he wouldn't just bannish the Hulk someplace. He loved the battle. On the Jack-o-Metter I'd say 9 out of 10. I had fun watching it and will see it again.