The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 2

[November Rain]

as for destroyer slap vs hulk kick.

casual slap from destroyer pretty much killed a human, while a kick from hulk nearly killed a captain america lite.

but kicks ar stronger than punches, swings and roundabouts.

 

[BigThor]

I agree Rain, also the "Hulk hits harder" argument doesn't carry much weight since The Destroyer is most likely going to bombard them with his energy beam instead of punching them.

 

[November Rain]

but the destroyer could literally just stand there until banner calms down and disintegrate banner

as for taking out abomination, again, another choke and he would be done for.

the both of them literally have nothing at their disposal to take them out.

 

[BigThor]

Yeah I was agreeing with you btw, I was just referring to the fact that some posters make it seem like it's going to come down to a "punching contest".

I guess they didn't notice Destroyer's disintegrator beam.

 

[LOBO3315a]

I'm thinking if Destroyer hit Hulk with the disintegrator beam, and didn't utterly destroy him, Destroyer is gonna lose the fight.

Hulk's schtick is if you hit him, and don't KO him the first time you do, you lose. Remember when Destroyer fired the beam, 2 parts opened on either side of its "face" to do so. I'm thinking the second time Destroyer does that, Hulk grabs each side and either rips Destroyer's" face" apart, or just decides to pull it's head off. Primary weapon offline = bad day for Destroyer.

 

[November Rain]

but he can just keep them open after initially using them and have them keep going with his usual assault.

now using my own logic, we haven't really seen how strong the destroyer is offensicvely but he is shown to be highly durable and is afterall entrusted by odin to guard his trophy room, which must stand for something.

but the fact thor went straight for an odinforce esque blast may be a game clincher

if the hulk can survive one of those inthem ovie-verse, you may have some arguments but even then, neither sets of characters have the hammer at their disposal so...

 

[Venom'sDad]

I'm thinking if Destroyer hit Hulk with the disintegrator beam, and didn't utterly destroy him, Destroyer is gonna lose the fight.

Hulk's schtick is if you hit him, and don't KO him the first time you do, you lose. Remember when Destroyer fired the beam, 2 parts opened on either side of its "face" to do so. I'm thinking the second time Destroyer does that, Hulk grabs each side and either rips Destroyer's" face" apart, or just decides to pull it's head off. Primary weapon offline = bad day for Destroyer.

I agree.

One thing that I think everyone failed to address is Hulk's speed & agility for a big guy...as well as his ability to adapt to the situation. Certainly, there's no doubt in my mind that Hulk could defeat the Destroyer single handedly. No way can the Destroyer handle both Hulk and Abomination(who is pretty fast & nimble himself).

 

[LOBO3315a]

Speed is one of those things that's hard to translate in film. The director wants the audience to see what's happening, not a bunch of green flashes and buildings being flattened by the shock waves.

 

[Venom'sDad]

That just your thinking...I nevered implied nor suggested, that he move like Flash on the screen. Just that he does has speed & agility. You're putting words in my mouth. That is one of the other abilities that Hulk has, that no had discuss/mention.

 

[November Rain]

waaa, there was no display of hulk's speed or ability to adapt in TIH what so ever????

sure both himself and blonsky appear faster than the destroyer but what does that have to do with anything?

in the comic verse, spiderman is more speedy and agile than the hulk but that doesn't do anything

 

[LOBO3315a]

Well actually it does. Spidey can dance circles around Hulk for the most part. This tends to get Hulk madder, and madder. Finally he gets to the point where he can match Spidey's speed and grab hold of him.

It has caught Parker off guard more than once at how fast Hulk can move. Maybe not Flash like speed, but fast enough to dodge Destroyer's 2nd beam and rip that armor apart like a beer can.

 

[Kirmit]

waaa, there was no display of hulk's speed or ability to adapt in TIH what so ever????

sure both himself and blonsky appear faster than the destroyer but what does that have to do with anything?

in the comic verse, spiderman is more speedy and agile than the hulk but that doesn't do anything

It actually has everything to do with the outcome, if the destroyer's beams and hits can't keep up with the Hulk it's going to be a pretty quick fight.

Personally I saw nothing in Thor from the Destroyer that I don't think Hulk could handle. Sif penetrated the armour fairly easy, now Hulk who is 100 times stronger could be tearing the destoryer limb from limb.

 

[BigThor]

It actually has everything to do with the outcome, if the destroyer's beams and hits can't keep up with the Hulk it's going to be a pretty quick fight.

I highly doubt Hulk could just "rip The Destroyer" in half", oh and TIH Hulk's durability isn't nearly as high as you make it seem.

He was being affected by a grenade launcher and he was extremely hurt after falling from the General's helicopter, a few blasts from Destroyer would put him out of comission.

Personally I saw nothing in Thor from the Destroyer that I don't think Hulk could handle. Sif penetrated the armour fairly easy, now Hulk who is 100 times stronger could be tearing the destoryer limb from limb.

Once AGAIN, Sif's sword is made of Asgardian metal and could very well be the same material as The Destroyer's armor, you all act as if she stabbed him with a sword you buy at the store.

 

[Iron_Stark]

Yeah I was agreeing with you btw, I was just referring to the fact that some posters make it seem like it's going to come down to a "punching contest".

I guess they didn't notice Destroyer's disintegrator beam.

We did notice the disintergrator beam, and all it really disintergrated in the movie were the frost giants in the beginning.

When it was hitting the cars in town all it was doing was flipping them over.

Also as mentioned, Hulk and Abomination are pretty fast and agile enough to miss them. Mortal Thor was able to avoid the beams as were some Shield agents like Coulson. The Destroyer was also shooting its beams at the warriors 3 and Sif, at point blank range and they pretty much avoided them.

Plus look how slow the armor is compared to Hulk and Abomination. Speed kills.

As far as Asgardian metal, it was never stated if it was stronger than normal metal, so if no one wants to recognise the madder Hulk gets, the stronger he gets, then this shouldn't be recognised.

As far as Blonsky, yes he was still alive, but any normal person with no healing powers would've been dead, mortal Thor surely would've died from a Hulk sparta kick.

Also look at the Thor/Destroyer fight and how short it was and how Thor defeated it with brute strenght. He didn't find some button to push to deactivate it or use some asgardian magic to defeat it, just a good smack through its head.

 

[BigThor]

We did notice the disintergrator beam, and all it really disintergrated in the movie were the frost giants in the beginning.

When it was hitting the cars in town all it was doing was flipping them over.

Actually the Frost Giants in the beginning were the only things hit directly by beam, those cars were basically being grazed by the blast.

Also as mentioned, Hulk and Abomination are pretty fast and agile enough to miss them. Mortal Thor was able to avoid the beams as were some Shield agents like Coulson. The Destroyer was also shooting its beams at the warriors 3 and Sif, at point blank range and they pretty much avoided them.

Plus look how slow the armor is compared to Hulk and Abomination. Speed kills.

Abomination and Hulk weren't agile in TIH and they really weren't all that fast, it was pretty clear that The Destroyer was just getting Coulson and Co. out of it's way rather than trying to kill them. The Destroyer also aimed it's beam indirectly at The Warrior's Three and Sif, the only point blank shot it took was when Sif was on it's chest.

The Warrior's Three and Shield were not that main targets, therefore they were only obstacles in the way of The Destroyer's real goal.[/QUOTE]

As far as Asgardian metal, it was never stated if it was stronger than normal metal, so if no one wants to recognise the madder Hulk gets, the stronger he gets, then this shouldn't be recognised.

As far as Blonsky, yes he was still alive, but any normal person with no healing powers would've been dead, mortal Thor surely would've died from a Hulk sparta kick.

That's just crazy because Sif's weapon is from Asgard so why wouldn't it be stronger than normal metal? Hulk can't get madder all he wants but that won't matter if he gets put out of comission early on.

What don't you understand about a kick being stronger than a backhand? Besides, for all intents and purporses mortal Thor did DIE from The Destroyer's backhand which SHOULDN'T be compared to a kick btw.

Also look at the Thor/Destroyer fight and how short it was and how Thor defeated it with brute strenght. He didn't find some button to push to deactivate it or use some asgardian magic to defeat it, just a good smack through its head.

I watched this film 13 times and Thor defeated The Destroyer by reversing it's energy beam back inside it's body NOT by "brute strength".

It was more of Thor using it's own power against it rather than actually overopowering it.

 

[Kirmit]

I highly doubt Hulk could just "rip The Destroyer" in half", oh and TIH Hulk's durability isn't nearly as high as you make it seem.

He was being affected by a grenade launcher and he was extremely hurt after falling from the General's helicopter, a few blasts from Destroyer would put him out of comission.



Once AGAIN, Sif's sword is made of Asgardian metal and could very well be the same material as The Destroyer's armor, you all act as if she stabbed him with a sword you buy at the store.

Firstly, I didn't even mention Hulk's durability, I was talking about speed, speed that would allow hulk to dodge the Destroyers beams, once Hulk got close enough to the Destroyer IMO it would be game over.

As for the sword/spear, there's zero proof to back up it's strength, yes being from Asgard it could be stronger than Steel but we don't know. I still stand by if it can pierce the armour Hulk would be able to aswell and once he does pierce it he'll start ripping Destroyer apart.

 

[Venom'sDad]

There's a difference between Sif & Hulk as far as strength is concern. She was able to penetrate(no oxymoron intended) Destroyer armor...what do you think Hulk would do?

 

[Iron_Stark]

Yes they were pretty fast and agile. Look how fast Abomination was weaving through that car pile up in Harlem. And look at Hulk and how he was running alongside the Humvee.

They're not fast as the Flash but they sure as hell move faster than the slow plodding Destroyer.

Again, they never specified what kind of metal that is or what its comprised of. Was the Destroyers armor the same material as Sif's spear? Never stated, just saying it came from Asgard so it automatically beats anything that comes from Earth doesn't cut it.

I do understand about kicks and backhands. Also the Destroyer backhanded Volstagg, and didn't knock him out or even scratch him, so they only offensive weapon Hulk and Abomination would only have to worry about would be the beams, which they could avoid.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Funnily enough after watching Thor today I immediatly started wondering about a Hulk vs Destroyer fight and also Thor vs Abomination funnily enough.

Now for the first one I dont think Hulk would defeat The Destroyer with ease, but I do think he would defeat him. If the Warriors 3 could take a few indirect hits from the energy beams, i'm sure Hulk could take a direct one. I'm sure it would do some damage but nothing the Hulk couldnt recover from,. in short I think Hulk would win but its a fight I would love to see.

 

[BigThor]

Yes they were pretty fast and agile. Look how fast Abomination was weaving through that car pile up in Harlem. And look at Hulk and how he was running alongside the Humvee.

They're not fast as the Flash but they sure as hell move faster than the slow plodding Destroyer.

True, they are a heck of alot faster than The Destroyer but I'm pretty sure if he could hit 2 sprinting Frost Giants without missing then he could hit Hulk.

If The Warrior's Three and those Shield agents were his main targets then I'm pretty sure he wouldn't aimed at them indirectly (running his beam along the ground etc.).

Again, they never specified what kind of metal that is or what its comprised of. Was the Destroyers armor the same material as Sif's spear? Never stated, just saying it came from Asgard so it automatically beats anything that comes from Earth doesn't cut it.

I don't see why it doesn't cut it, because Asgardians are a far more powerful and advanced race then humans so why wouldn't their weapons be more stronger?

I do understand about kicks and backhands. Also the Destroyer backhanded Volstagg, and didn't knock him out or even scratch him, so they only offensive weapon Hulk and Abomination would only have to worry about would be the beams, which they could avoid.

I'm pretty sure a backhand from TIH's Hulk wouldn't knock Volstagg out either, Asgardians are pretty tough and he's tougher than the average Asgardian.

There's a difference between Sif & Hulk as far as strength is concern. She was able to penetrate(no oxymoron intended) Destroyer armor...what do you think Hulk would do?

Does Hulk have an Asgardian double sword and will he be smart enough to set up a diversion so he leap from a building while The Destroyer is distracted?

It's not like Sif just walked up to The Destroyer and stabbed him, she caught it by suprise by setting up a distraction.

 

[November Rain]

i still don't get the whole penetration argument for the hulk, the hulk doesn't have a spear or sword so how would it penetrate the armout in the first place. And it's not as if the penetration did any damage to the destroyer either.

the destroyers' disintegrator beam is shown as capable of disintegrating living material, or it may be specifically designed to take out frost giants. so barechested hulk and abomination may be suceptible to it.

the only thing capable of deflecting it's blast was the uru metal.

so the only weakness the destroyer has is not in the hands of the hulk or abomination, but no one has specifically stated HOW the hulk or abomination can take him down.

again, the destroyer is durable, feels no pain and can shift its shape. hulk can take physical punishment but has to rely on being angry to withstain a battle and could be susceptible to death via banner form disintegration. blonksy is cable of getting aphyxiated like the hulk.

the destroyer is shown being at a reasonable similar strength level by the eway he pushes cars flying away from him in the hurricane.

it'd be the equivalent of two kids trying to beat up an adult.

and while the destroyer may not have the power in theory to take them down, abomination and the hulk lack to tools to take him down as well. so it's a gruesome stalemate but the destroyer has time on his side and could take out banner and blonksy when they fatigue.

 

[Xeno]

When the Destroyer was first invented (yes, I remember that) its power level depended upon who or what it drew energy from. When Odin created the mystical armor, it could be infused with the life force of an Asgardian in order to become animate. When Sif was the source, for instance, it was extremely powerful but Thor could defeat it with a great deal of effort. Destroying the armor would have destroyed the god(dess) whose spirit was trapped inside, which of course upped the angsty drama factor. Thor almost killed Sif before realizing that her spirit was inside the Destroyer. When Odin's life-force infused the Destroyer it became virtually unstoppable.

The movieverse Destroyer was different, of course. However, it would be interesting to see that dynamic play out if Odin should ever resurrect the armor.

 

[Godzilla2000]

When the Destroyer was first invented (yes, I remember that) its power level depended upon who or what it drew energy from. When Odin created the mystical armor, it could be infused with the life force of an Asgardian in order to become animate. When Sif was the source, for instance, it was extremely powerful but Thor could defeat it with a great deal of effort. Destroying the armor would have destroyed the god(dess) whose spirit was trapped inside, which of course upped the angsty drama factor. Thor almost killed Sif before realizing that her spirit was inside the Destroyer. When Odin's life-force infused the Destroyer it became virtually unstoppable.

The movieverse Destroyer was different, of course. However, it would be interesting to see that dynamic play out if Odin should ever resurrect the armor.

So if the Destroyer was drawing its energy from Goku during the Saiyan Saga it would be over 9,000?

 

[Obi-Ron]

pretty sure Popeye could mop the floor with all of them

 

[darthmagic]

Hey, new guy here. Love the discussions so i decided to share my thoughts on the whole Thor, Hulk thing. Based on what we've seen over the past few years in both the animated and film properties, it is clear Marvel has decided to make hulk the standard for physical strength in the Marvel Film Universe.

Firstly, I think it is unrealistic to expect Thor to go fist to fist with the hulk and hold his own. He is clearly not as physically strong as the Hulk. He is strong for sure but he's not on the hulks level. His main power is Mjolnir and using it's power (Throwing it, lightning etc.) he can battle hulk to a reasonable standstill which is what i expect in the film. Many will say "but Thor's a God!", but he isn't in the films. Odin said the Asgardians have fallen into mans myth and legends, and Fandral commented that earthlings worshiped Thor, "As a God". They are basically an Alien race who is far more technologically advanced, physically stronger than humans, and have a knowledge of magic.

Finally, making the hulk physically stronger than Thor gives the characters better balance. Thor can fly, is strong and has cool Storm powers. Hulk's main "shtick", as someone pointed out earlier, is his immeasurable strength through rage. No Army can stand against him much less one man. That's why Tony's trump card when verbally sparing with Loki was "We have a Hulk". Granted Hulk wasn't as powerful in TIH as he was in Ang Lee's Hulk but i think that will change in the Avengers.