The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 2

[Roose Bolton]

....then why is the Hulk even needed in the film ? if Thor can do everything Hulk can do but better, makes ol' Jade Jaws seem redundant.

 

[November Rain]

The point is, TIH Hulk took out everything that Ross threw at him, including Abomination. If it had been fifty tanks, he would've taken them out, too.

What, exactly, in TIH did you see that led you to believe that the Jolly Green Giant was in any way, shape or form weaker than the one in Ang Lee's film....?

this is precisely the point, they had been chasing the hulk, arguably the most destructive force in the universe and they bring...er hummers and 30 soldiers...

they didn't bring tanks because they didn't need tanks.

the whole 'wow, he's really doing it' by ross to blonksy in super soldier form is really quite telling of the groundedness of this incarnation.

plus the hulk's whole motif is that he's the strongest one there is, yet he couldnt beat abomination in a straight fight and went for a choke out.

it's kinda lame...especially considering strength is supposed to be his bag.

 

[November Rain]

....then why is the Hulk even needed in the film ? if Thor can do everything Hulk can do but better, makes ol' Jade Jaws seem redundant.

my point and i truly believe this, is that banner will be a bigger influence to proceedings than hulk is.

 

[Silvermoth]

Well, those were the early days of the Marvel cinematic U. Hulkbusters and superpowered gods weren't in common use at that point.

 

[LOBO3315a]

this is precisely the point, they had been chasing the hulk, arguably the most destructive force in the universe and they bring...er hummers and 30 soldiers...

they didn't bring tanks because they didn't need tanks.

the whole 'wow, he's really doing it' by ross to blonksy in super soldier form is really quite telling of the groundedness of this incarnation.

plus the hulk's whole motif is that he's the strongest one there is, yet he couldnt beat abomination in a straight fight and went for a choke out.

it's kinda lame...especially considering strength is supposed to be his bag.

Just for the record, Abomination starts off stronger than Hulk, even in the comics. It's the longer the fight draws out, Abom gets tired, and Hulk just keeps getting stronger to finally beat him.

I will admit, TIH didn't do a very good job illustrating that dynamic.

 

[November Rain]

It's just the general hate the 2nd movie has received for some strange reason. I mean The first movie was all right, but I felt like I was watching the 1960's comic book Hulk come to life.

In the 2nd movie I felt like I was watching something closer to today's comics Hulk. A little more grounded in reality. At least he didn't bite the head off a missle and spit it back at the helicopter....

Yeah i agree with morning star, this was a pretty good visual.

 

[November Rain]

Just for the record, Abomination starts off stronger than Hulk, even in the comics. It's the longer the fight draws out, Abom gets tired, and Hulk just keeps getting stronger to finally beat him.

I will admit, TIH didn't do a very good job illustrating that dynamic.

i get it, but the film showed hulk smashed the ground, blonsky chain thing hit him on the head, while his leg was trapped and the hulk too advantage and choked him with his own chain.

then the hulk steps on him and roars as if he's done somethign amazing, especially after getting owned for most of the fight

kinda reminds me of blake vs nomak from blake 2.

 

[Roose Bolton]

my point and i truly believe this, is that banner will be a bigger influence to proceedings than hulk is.

Again, what can Banner do that Tony Stark can't ? Any way that it's spun it seems like he doesn't really add much to the team.

 

[November Rain]

tony stark's research is in weapons and electronics/cybernetics

banner's is in human weaponary, mutation, genetics and the influence of radiation.

swings and roundabouts with regards to utilising skills.

if skrulls are involved, banner will probably find a way to kill em

 

[terry78]

Banner/Hulk is the wild card basically. Everyone else is more tactical, Hulk will just plow forward and rip **** apart. He's their weapon that can be used to thin the ranks, draw fire, etc.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

I'm not saying that Hulk can't defeat multiple troops, I'm just saying realistically Thor could take out far more if he actually utilized his storm creating ability.

I'd argue a Thunderclap from a really pissed off Hulk could take out just as many troops, etc as anything Thor could do, not to mention a pissed off Hulk smashing the floor.

 

[The Morningstar]

Movie Thor is pretty under powered too really. I doubt we'll be seeing God Blasts and other more esoteric uses of Mjolnir in the movies.

 

[cherokeesam]

this is precisely the point, they had been chasing the hulk, arguably the most destructive force in the universe and they bring...er hummers and 30 soldiers...

they didn't bring tanks because they didn't need tanks.

They didn't bring tanks because they were at a friggin' university, crawling with American civilians. The whole point of the exercise was to use nonlethal sonic cannons to bring Hulk down, and to use small-arms fire to harass and annoy Big Green and herd him towards those sonic weapons.

plus the hulk's whole motif is that he's the strongest one there is, yet he couldnt beat abomination in a straight fight and went for a choke out.

it's kinda lame...especially considering strength is supposed to be his bag.

Who says he couldn't beat A-Bomb in a straight fight? Yeah, Blonsky's strength level is equal to Hulk's (as it is in the comics), and Hollywood/Marvel/the fans wanted an epic fight. So they got one. If Hulk had been at full rage (unlike Abomination, his strength gets even more powerful depending on the level of his anger...."the madder Hulk is, the stronger Hulk gets"), the battle would've lasted for all of a second and a half. You think Hollywood, the fans or you and I wanted that....?

The choke-out shows that Hulk was, in fact, *pulling* his punches. He wasn't trying to kill Blonsky. If he *had* been, the fight would've looked a LOT different.

Again, what can Banner do that Tony Stark can't ? Any way that it's spun it seems like he doesn't really add much to the team.

Hulk is a *lot* stronger than Thor, in the comics and in the film u. We'll probably see that illustrated in the Avengers movie.

Hulk will be the team's brick, not Thor. Thor combines storm/weather/electrical power with super-strength, but his strength levels won't be enough to match Hulk's.

As for Banner, Banner is a nuclear physicist. I'm sure that'll come into play in the movie.

 

[November Rain]

I'd argue a Thunderclap from a really pissed off Hulk could take out just as many troops, etc as anything Thor could do, not to mention a pissed off Hulk smashing the floor.

but his ground smash in the film couldn't even crack fully through a ceiling.

and it his clap rocked an helicopter and put the flames out on it.

one would argue if his hulk clap was that powerful, why didn't he use it when the troops first arrived, or when the sonic cannons were goign off?

 

[November Rain]

Movie Thor is pretty under powered too really. I doubt we'll be seeing God Blasts and other more esoteric uses of Mjolnir in the movies.

yeah, everyone is indeed very grounded in these depictions of them.

 

[November Rain]

They didn't bring tanks because they were at a friggin' university, crawling with American civilians. The whole point of the exercise was to use nonlethal sonic cannons to bring Hulk down, and to use small-arms fire to harass and annoy Big Green and herd him towards those sonic weapons.

well again this is to my favour.

the threat level of the hulk is smaller.

plus, the methods involved could not have been that non-lethal but they did bring a gunship in. Again, why bring in just the one.

Who says he couldn't beat A-Bomb in a straight fight?

er the fight where the hulk spends considerable amount of time on the floor for at least four different occasions and only made one decent offensive encounter with blonksy throughout

i mean he had plenty of opportunity to do it and in his best offensive part, blonksy mocks hulk's efforts and then puts him to sleep for a bit by kicking him over two blocks through a building.

Yeah, Blonsky's strength level is equal to Hulk's (as it is in the comics), and Hollywood/Marvel/the fans wanted an epic fight. So they got one. If Hulk had been at full rage (unlike Abomination, his strength gets even more powerful depending on the level of his anger...."the madder Hulk is, the stronger Hulk gets"), the battle would've lasted for all of a second and a half. You think Hollywood, the fans or you and I wanted that....?

as far as we know, there is no correlation between rage and strength in this film, it's never statef. You are now making up stuff based on previous comic knowledge.

The choke-out shows that Hulk was, in fact, *pulling* his punches.

He wasn't trying to kill Blonsky. If he *had* been able to take blonksy with pure strength, the fight would've looked a LOT different and surely they would shown them.

Hulk is a *lot* stronger than Thor, in the comics and in the film u. We'll probably see that illustrated in the Avengers movie.

that's pretty obvious, thor's greatest feat was flipping over a table.

Hulk will be the team's brick, not Thor. Thor combines storm/weather/electrical power with super-strength, but his strength levels won't be enough to match Hulk's.

again all true although how much of a tank remains to be seen. again, we've never seen the hulk go up against a serious amount of powered fodder before but we've seen iron man and also thor go against them with a range of long distance weapons.

the hulk can only ever really deal with one oponent at a time.

again, this is just going on what we have been shown. but for me, it looked like the two encounters he had in TIH, took far more out of the hulk than i would have personally liked to haev seen as nothing 'major' was really thrown at him. It's not like those were the toughest two encounters in the entire MU.

dare i say captain america could have taken out that platoon maybe even without the howling commandos. but that is arguable (the point is it shouldn't be arguable at all).

As for Banner, Banner is a nuclear physicist. I'm sure that'll come into play in the movie.

well let's hope so, banner is just as interesting a character as the hulk, i hope he gets utilised properly and to his full extent, same gows with the hulk.

i don't want either of their usages to be seen as cashing-in or gimmickery.

 

[BigThor]

Movie Thor is pretty under powered too really. I doubt we'll be seeing God Blasts and other more esoteric uses of Mjolnir in the movies.

He was portrayed as being pretty powerful in my opinion, it was the first film so you really shouldn't have expected anything as extreme as a God blast.

The only thing that was toned down were his strength feats and like I've said before, I think that was because this film was an introduction to Mjolnir as well as Thor.

I think the goal was to showcase what Thor could WITH Mjolnir, I think Thor 2 will showcase his strength a bit more.

 

[Doc Samson]

The point is, TIH Hulk took out everything that Ross threw at him, including Abomination. If it had been fifty tanks, he would've taken them out, too.

What, exactly, in TIH did you see that led you to believe that the Jolly Green Giant was in any way, shape or form weaker than the one in Ang Lee's film....?

I get what your saying, the situation & setting negated what Ross could do in TIH, but IMO, Ang's Hulk was far superior in feats of strength, endurance & agility.

First of all, and admittedly so, they de-powered the Hulk's leaping ability by far in TIH. Some people & critics felt the Hulk jumping around so quickly & freely felt a little too generic in '03, but I think that's more a fault of the location. He definitely had weight to him, but when your jumping around canyons, I don't know how much they should move lol.

Ditto for his speed, which once again people seemed to have an issue with, even though we've seen time and again how fast he is in a gazillion comics.

Ang's Hulk survived the Canyon collapsing ontop of him in addition to the Nuclear (Gamma?) bomb used at the end to kill him & his father.

He survived a fall from a fighter jet reaching extraordinary heights, bit off a warhead & spit it through a Comanche Chopper, Hammer tossed Abram Tanks, took direct shots from said tanks, Suplexed another helicopter, I mean, it's not even close to me.

Sure it could be a function of the situation, and perhaps if TIH Ross had the resources at his disposal, that version of the Hulk may have survived it too. But he seemed to have no problem calling in an airstrike with his daughter standing right in harm's way. I don't know how much TIH Ross really cared about collateral damage...

er the fight where the hulk spends considerable amount of time on the floor for at least four different occasions and only made one decent offensive encounter with blonksy throughout

i mean he had plenty of opportunity to do it and in his best offensive part, blonksy mocks hulk's efforts and then puts him to sleep for a bit by kicking him over two blocks through a building.

as far as we know, there is no correlation between rage and strength in this film, it's never statef. You are now making up stuff based on previous comic knowledge.

I think we also have to remember, and something I've surmised from the first time I watched it, that at the end, the Hulk was much weaker due to the cure.

Even Betty is unsure if he'll change by jumping. The Hulk in that last fight, to me, seemed much more subdued than he was the first two incidents. The look on his face after the helicopter crashes tells it all. Abomination jumps ontop of the blades and growls at him, while the Hulk pauses for a second & looks away, like he doesn't know what to do. Like has to think about being angry.

From there he gets thoroughly overpowered until he sees Betty, which triggers the eyes to glow brighter and his strength to finally increase. And obviously Banner exhibits some form of control in that last sequence of meditation. So while I do think TIH version was way more powered down, I think the cure at the end even brought him down further.

 

[BigThor]

I get what your saying, the situation & setting negated what Ross could do in TIH, but IMO, Ang's Hulk was far superior in feats of strength, endurance & agility.

First of all, and admittedly so, they de-powered the Hulk's leaping ability by far in TIH. Some people & critics felt the Hulk jumping around so quickly & freely felt a little too generic in '03, but I think that's more a fault of the location. He definitely had weight to him, but when your jumping around canyons, I don't know how much they should move lol.

Ditto for his speed, which once again people seemed to have an issue with, even though we've seen time and again how fast he is in a gazillion comics.

Ang's Hulk survived the Canyon collapsing ontop of him in addition to the Nuclear (Gamma?) bomb used at the end to kill him & his father.

He survived a fall from a fighter jet reaching extraordinary heights, bit off a warhead & spit it through a Comanche Chopper, Hammer tossed Abram Tanks, took direct shots from said tanks, Suplexed another helicopter, I mean, it's not even close to me.

Sure it could be a function of the situation, and perhaps if TIH Ross had the resources at his disposal, that version of the Hulk may have survived it too. But he seemed to have no problem calling in an airstrike with his daughter standing right in harm's way. I don't know how much TIH Ross really cared about collateral damage...

I agree, I liked TIH's Hulk far more than Ang Lee's but I do wish they kept his leaping ability and gave him better strength feats.

 

[cherokeesam]

I get what your saying, the situation & setting negated what Ross could do in TIH, but IMO, Ang's Hulk was far superior in feats of strength, endurance & agility.

First of all, and admittedly so, they de-powered the Hulk's leaping ability by far in TIH. Some people & critics felt the Hulk jumping around so quickly & freely felt a little too generic in '03, but I think that's more a fault of the location. He definitely had weight to him, but when your jumping around canyons, I don't know how much they should move lol.

Ditto for his speed, which once again people seemed to have an issue with, even though we've seen time and again how fast he is in a gazillion comics.

Ang's Hulk survived the Canyon collapsing ontop of him in addition to the Nuclear (Gamma?) bomb used at the end to kill him & his father.

He survived a fall from a fighter jet reaching extraordinary heights, bit off a warhead & spit it through a Comanche Chopper, Hammer tossed Abram Tanks, took direct shots from said tanks, Suplexed another helicopter, I mean, it's not even close to me.

Sure it could be a function of the situation, and perhaps if TIH Ross had the resources at his disposal, that version of the Hulk may have survived it too. But he seemed to have no problem calling in an airstrike with his daughter standing right in harm's way. I don't know how much TIH Ross really cared about collateral damage...



I think we also have to remember, and something I've surmised from the first time I watched it, that at the end, the Hulk was much weaker due to the cure.

Even Betty is unsure if he'll change by jumping. The Hulk in that last fight, to me, seemed much more subdued than he was the first two incidents. The look on his face after the helicopter crashes tells it all. Abomination jumps ontop of the blades and growls at him, while the Hulk pauses for a second & looks away, like he doesn't know what to do. Like has to think about being angry.

From there he gets thoroughly overpowered until he sees Betty, which triggers the eyes to glow brighter and his strength to finally increase. And obviously Banner exhibits some form of control in that last sequence of meditation. So while I do think TIH version was way more powered down, I think the cure at the end even brought him down further.

Betty would've been the only "collateral damage" in the helicopter assault, and Thunderbolt genuinely didn't seem to have a problem with that.

Yeah, I wish that TIH would've had some over-the-top strength feats and wide open battles like Ang Lee did, but again, the story dictated that Ross wasn't using all his biggest weapons (other than A-Bomb, once Blonsky mutated). And again, as far as the Hulk vs. Abomination fight, I attribute any "weakness" shown by Hulk there as simple Hollywood Rules about a final fight --- the hero *has* to look like he's getting his butt kicked, so that audiences can stand up and cheer when he finally summons the strength to fight back and defeat his opponent. That's as old as drama itself, and applies even when the hero has godlike strength (Hulk, Thor, Superman, etc.).

Marvel Studios' Hulk hasn't had the heaviest firepower thrown at him yet. But if you thought he looked weak in TIH, I have no doubt whatsoever that *all* your fears about that will be removed when Hulk takes on cosmic threats in The Avengers.

 

[BigThor]

Marvel Studios' Hulk hasn't had the heaviest firepower thrown at him yet. But if you thought he looked weak in TIH, I have no doubt whatsoever that *all* your fears about that will be removed when Hulk takes on cosmic threats in The Avengers.

Agreed

I think the same thing applies to those who think Thor & Iron Man were weak in their films as well.

 

[Xeno]

Betty wasn't sure that Banner would change into the Hulk when he jumped because he had undergone Stern's treatment which supposedly reversed/suppressed his gamma-inspired mutation. They weren't sure whether that was a permanent "cure" for Banner or just a temporary fix. Banner and Betty had no way of knowing whether he still had the ability to transform. On top of that, Banner had been hit with a tranquilizer dart which undoubtedly prevented him from getting excited/angry enough to change. He jumped from the helicopter because he wanted the fear caused by the fall to kick-start his adrenaline and override the effects of the treatment and the drugs he had received.

 

[Venom'sDad]

The thing is, no one really knows, to what extent is the Hulk's power; because no one knows, to what degree his anger can reach. Reason given by Kirby, that it's limitless.

 

[HUMANIMAL]

hulk strongest and invulnerable...i mean almost...but also even superman gets killed (in the books) and participates in a team ...he could do all by himself...
but i think it always depends on the story and thats how strong each hero has to become.

 

[jab1118]

The Hulk and this goes for pretty much every character will always be as strong or powerful as the situation calls for. The fact is that your deciding how sttong Hulk is based off of the level of difficulty he fought off what he went up against. If he didnt take some damage then the movie is boring. And I hate to break it to you but general Ross didnt decide to only bring hummers and one gunship, the budget did. If they could of had him fight a flert of tanks and fighter jets they would have. And guess what he would of won. My point is its impossible to say going forward how strong any one character is based off what we have seen. These guys are as powerful as the writer feels they should be in the moment