The Avengers The Official 'Hulk in Avengers' thread. - Part 2

[Obi-Ron]

Well at least it's not gonna be an arrow with a boxing glove on it like some archers I could mention.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Agreed. The general audience (i.e., the majority of the people that see the film) aren't going to delineate the fine differences between steel and vibranium-tipped (or even Adamantium) arrows, all they're going to see is that a bow & arrow just took out the Hulk. For years, you'll hear things like, "So what, he can lift a tank, all I need is my cousin's crossbow and I can take down the Hulk," or "Geez, if an arrow can do that to him, imagine what a shotgun or tank-fire can do to him!"



Exactly.



To me, the big deal is not that it's the "only" thing that can take down the Hulk, it's that an arrow is able to take down the Hulk, at all.



If I have to watch an arrow stop the Hulk, I would much rather it be this than something actually pierce his skin.

I realize that this is mostly conjecture, based on Renner's statements in an interview and that we have no way of knowing the context of the arrows, etc. However, I'm not liking the idea of an arrow piercing the Hulk's skin.

Couldnt agree more, If I am sitting in the cinema, watching Hulk take on the Avengers, take on a Skrull army as well as Loki, then in between all this see him taken out by an arrow, whether its a piercing one or gas one, I am going to be thinking, 'WTF.'

In short, I DONT want to see this.

 

[g corner book]

Couldnt agree more, If I am sitting in the cinema, watching Hulk take on the Avengers, take on a Skrull army as well as Loki, then in between all this see him taken out by an arrow, whether its a piercing one or gas one, I am going to be thinking, 'WTF.'

In short, I DONT want to see this.

Me three.

Forget the GA. Forget the hardcore (like us). Never underestimate the assholishness of the few. I could see some "critics" *****ing and moaning about this in their reviews.

We are not the only ones who like to poo poo.

"It's a commercial!" "What an arrow!"

Lol

 

[November Rain]

what's the big deal with the arrows, superman gets taken out with simply kryptonite.

it's not the arrow that takes him out, its the sedative inside.

crumbs, hulk got pierced with abomination's bones in the last film. no one gives two hoots about that. and shrapnel in HULK tore up the hulk and you saw his healing power working. heck, the dogs managed to get him as well.

why don't people watch the films their characters are based in before making assumptions on what can and can't affect them.

 

[wobbly]

Hulks been getting cut up in the books for some time now. Usually has to be Adamantium* (or similar) but it happens.

*Pet peeve of mine is the miraculous cutting ability of Adamantium brought in solely to make Wolverine cooler: In his first appearance his claws couldn't even scratch the Hulk as the writers figured (correctly I might add) that it doesn't matter how strong the metal of the blade/knife/claw is the force behind it still has to be outrageously strong to cut through dense material like thick metal, or the Hulks skin. The basic physics of displacement at work.

These days though any goon with an adamantium blade can cut the Hulk up for fun.

 

[Savage]

People also act like they're not going to explain the arrow either. I'm sure Fury will even hold it up to the screen and explain it to people that just don't get it. Adamantium and Vibranium can not only penetrate the Hulk but shred him as seen in "The Ultimates" and "World War Hulk". Unless these people are talking during the scene where someone explains the arrow or are just walking in from the lobby to see Hawkeye take out Hulk with an arrow then I don't see why they won't understand how Hulk was taken down.

 

[cherokeesam]

Another thing to remember about the arrow, especially if it alludes to the actual scene in the Ultimates where Ult Hawkeye did take out a raging Hulk with the arrow, is that it was a one in a million shot, and *only* someone as skilled as Clint Barton could make that shot.

It is in no way, shape or form going to be some random arrow that Hawkeye lobs at Hulkster and just gets lucky with.

 

[samsnee]

People also act like they're not going to explain the arrow either. I'm sure Fury will even hold it up to the screen and explain it to people that just don't get it. Adamantium and Vibranium can not only penetrate the Hulk but shred him as seen in "The Ultimates" and "World War Hulk". Unless these people are talking during the scene where someone explains the arrow or are just walking in from the lobby to see Hawkeye take out Hulk with an arrow then I don't see why they won't understand how Hulk was taken down.

I'm getting flashback to the magic adamantium amnesia bullets from Wolverine.

 

[Lantern Venom]

Actually his write up on Marvel's Wiki says
http://marvel.wikia.com/Hulk_(Robert_Bruce_Banner)

So allowing his anger to increase makes him potentially unstoppable. He shouldn't be able to defeat beings like Thor or Silver Surfer with ease, but if he's allowed to keep getting angry, he can beat them.

The trick with Hulk is to diffuse his anger, without using force. It's really the only way to stop him.

I think the Ultimate Avengers flick illustrated this perfectly. Thor initally held his own with Hulk but as the other Avengers began attacking Hulk, he felt more threatened and went berserk. At the point of complete frenzy, all of the other Avengers combined were no match for him. Betty's few words of comfort were what turned the trick.

 

[November Rain]

the only reason thor went down to hulk in ultimate avengers is because he got a hit from his own hammer. It had nothing to do with hulk's fighting abilty.

he was quite easily outfoxed by alot of characters in that piece, he was just too damn durable.

 

[BigThor]

the only reason thor went down to hulk in ultimate avengers is because he got a hit from his own hammer. It had nothing to do with hulk's fighting abilty.

he was quite easily outfoxed by alot of characters in that piece, he was just too damn durable.

Yeah it did seem that way, because Hulk didn't land a blow until he picked up that tank barrell.

Then he went ahead and sealed the deal by throwing Thor's own hammer at him.

 

[Lantern Venom]

the only reason thor went down to hulk in ultimate avengers is because he got a hit from his own hammer. It had nothing to do with hulk's fighting abilty.

he was quite easily outfoxed by alot of characters in that piece, he was just too damn durable.

I would argue that is part of Hulk's fighting ability. He shocked Thor by lifting the hammer with sheer brute force instead of being "worthy" and chucked it in his face. Hulk opponents are sometimes so awed by his strength and durability that their concentration lapses.

 

[Herolee10]

As I've said before, personally, just my honest opinion, I don't want the Hulk to be portrayed as someone who's so powerful, that he could defeat the entire team by himself, let alone being able to lift up Thor's hammer (despite being unworthy), if angry enough.

Granted, while I want to see the Hulk presented as a force to be reckoned with, I don't want him to be portrayed in the same manner that the Ultimates Animated Features, Next Avengers, and Thor vs Hulk has done, where he's just this unstoppable force that nothing in the universe can stop him.

 

[afan]

As I've said before, personally, just my honest opinion, I don't want the Hulk to be portrayed as someone who's so powerful, that he could defeat the entire team by himself, let alone being able to lift up Thor's hammer (despite being unworthy), if angry enough.

Granted, while I want to see the Hulk presented as a force to be reckoned with, I don't want him to be portrayed in the same manner that the Ultimates Animated Features, Next Avengers, and Thor vs Hulk has done, where he's just this unstoppable force that nothing in the universe can stop him.

IMO, "If angry enough" is the key.......
The Hulk is not always a raging mindless force, he is rather a character, a personality, he can converse. He's not the brightest bulb on the team, but he has likes and dislikes, and opinions. He's big, he's green, he's strong with an attitude, but he can cooperate for what he percieves as a common good.

Now The Hulk's "anger" threshold is very thin (much more hair trigger than Banner's) and when something sets him off his anger level rises very fast and along with that his strength, and as his strength increases his "mind" decreases, but his rage is totally focussed on the source. He will not attack his fellow Avengers in the heat of battle when his rage is focussed on whatever menace they face. Once the focus of his rage is defeated, resolved, or withdraws he very quickly calms down, and when competely calm with zero stimulus or sleeping he reverts to Banner.

Admittedly the initial transformation is problematic...i.e. Does Banner purposefully allow himself to get angry? I would say yes in the setting of the Avengers. Obviously in everyday life The Hulk's appearance can be disastrous, and a curse for Banner....but on The Avengers The Hulk is a valuable ally.

 

[darthmagic]

As I've said before, personally, just my honest opinion, I don't want the Hulk to be portrayed as someone who's so powerful, that he could defeat the entire team by himself, let alone being able to lift up Thor's hammer (despite being unworthy), if angry enough.

Granted, while I want to see the Hulk presented as a force to be reckoned with, I don't want him to be portrayed in the same manner that the Ultimates Animated Features, Next Avengers, and Thor vs Hulk has done, where he's just this unstoppable force that nothing in the universe can stop him.

I couldn't disagree more. Hulk has to be seen in exactly that light to be effective on screen. He has to be the wild card X-factor. If he's just another member of the team who is strong that undersells the character IMO. I think the Ultimates animated feature is exactly what Hulk needs to be in Avengers. He's the powerhouse who is as much an Ally as a threat and never fully accepted because of his unpredictably. When he gets into that Hulk Smash mode he'll destroy anyone and anything in his path friend or foe. I could see him starting out under Banners control but losing it as the fight gets even more intense.

 

[BigThor]

I would argue that is part of Hulk's fighting ability. He shocked Thor by lifting the hammer with sheer brute force instead of being "worthy" and chucked it in his face. Hulk opponents are sometimes so awed by his strength and durability that their concentration lapses.

That's true, but that was in the Ultimate Avengers and the Ultimate universe is like a great big "what if" story so I don't take it seriously.

As I've said before, personally, just my honest opinion, I don't want the Hulk to be portrayed as someone who's so powerful, that he could defeat the entire team by himself, let alone being able to lift up Thor's hammer (despite being unworthy), if angry enough.

Granted, while I want to see the Hulk presented as a force to be reckoned with, I don't want him to be portrayed in the same manner that the Ultimates Animated Features, Next Avengers, and Thor vs Hulk has done, where he's just this unstoppable force that nothing in the universe can stop him.

Same here, the unstoppable force thing makes him seem like one big "cheat code" instead of an actual character.

 

[Herolee10]

I couldn't disagree more. Hulk has to be seen in exactly that light to be effective on screen. He has to be the wild card X-factor. If he's just another member of the team who is strong that undersells the character IMO. I think the Ultimates animated feature is exactly what Hulk needs to be in Avengers. He's the powerhouse who is as much an Ally as a threat and never fully accepted because of his unpredictably. When he gets into that Hulk Smash mode he'll destroy anyone and anything in his path friend or foe. I could see him starting out under Banners control but losing it as the fight gets even more intense.

The problem with the Hulk being presented in the strength level that the Ultimates animated films have placed him in, in my honest opinion, is that by making him THAT strong, he's like the deus ex machina, where he essentially has no limits to his strength and can defeat any presumably unstoppable force on his own.

If he's that strong that he can defeat ANY foe on his own, what's the point of having a team if he could take down any threat by himself?

I like how his strength was portrayed in EMH's, where as strong as the Hulk is, even he can get tied down a bit when faced with a incredibly strong foe.

 

[BigThor]

The problem with the Hulk being presented in the strength level that the Ultimates animated films have placed him in, in my honest opinion, is that by making him THAT strong, he's like the deus ex machina, where he essentially has no limits to his strength and can defeat any presumably unstoppable force on his own.

If he's that strong that he can defeat ANY foe on his own, what's the point of having a team if he could take down any threat by himself?

I like how his strength was portrayed in EMH's, where as strong as the Hulk is, even he can get tied down a bit when faced with a incredibly strong foe.

I agree with you on all points, being overpowered doesnt work wll when you're on a team that's EMH's portrayal of Hulk's power level was perfect.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

what's the big deal with the arrows, superman gets taken out with simply kryptonite.

it's not the arrow that takes him out, its the sedative inside.

crumbs, hulk got pierced with abomination's bones in the last film. no one gives two hoots about that. and shrapnel in HULK tore up the hulk and you saw his healing power working. heck, the dogs managed to get him as well.

why don't people watch the films their characters are based in before making assumptions on what can and can't affect them.

Erm, I have just watched TIH NR and 4 army guys each wasted a whole clip each of sedative bulletts and not one of them pierced Hulk's skin, so I doubt an arrow, even fired by Hawkeye, would pierce Hulk's skin.

In the same film, various size bulletts, grenades and even a Helicopter fraching on top of him barely pierced his skin.

 

[Bren]

I couldn't disagree more. Hulk has to be seen in exactly that light to be effective on screen. He has to be the wild card X-factor. If he's just another member of the team who is strong that undersells the character IMO. I think the Ultimates animated feature is exactly what Hulk needs to be in Avengers. He's the powerhouse who is as much an Ally as a threat and never fully accepted because of his unpredictably. When he gets into that Hulk Smash mode he'll destroy anyone and anything in his path friend or foe. I could see him starting out under Banners control but losing it as the fight gets even more intense.

I'd hate this. Not only would it sell his team mates short, he would essentially have no threat to himself. So not much of a hero imo.

And of course, being so powerful makes the possibility of Hawkeye and his arrows being the only thing that can take him down, ridiculous.

Imo while he may not be the infinitely powerful version in the movie, the fact that he is STILL massively strong (probably more than Thor, if they need Hawkeye's arrow to eventually stop him), AND possibly uncontrollable, is what makes him so interesting in a team dynamic.

Of course, I'm not much of a Hulk fan anyway so......

 

[Gamma Burst]

I would argue that is part of Hulk's fighting ability. He shocked Thor by lifting the hammer with sheer brute force instead of being "worthy" and chucked it in his face. Hulk opponents are sometimes so awed by his strength and durability that their concentration lapses.

Anyway, in the ultimate universe, at that point, what hulk lifted was not Mjolnir, but an artificial, man-made hammer. Also, Thor's powers were artificial,given by his belt.

The stituation is much different now.

 

[Savage]

Anyway, in the ultimate universe, at that point, what hulk lifted was not Mjolnir, but an artificial, man-made hammer. Also, Thor's powers were artificial,given by his belt.

The stituation is much different now.

Wait, I thought that was all Loki's doing and Thor turned out to be very much real, rainbow bridge full of Asgardians and all.

 

[ThePowerCosmic]

I agree with you on all points, being overpowered doesnt work wll when you're on a team that's EMH's portrayal of Hulk's power level was perfect.

Don't you mean is perfect? You make it seem like EMH is a finished show now.

Anyway, in the ultimate universe, at that point, what hulk lifted was not Mjolnir, but an artificial, man-made hammer. Also, Thor's powers were artificial,given by his belt.

The stituation is much different now.

Did he do that in the comics? I remember in the Ultimates animated movie, Hulk did the exact same thing with Mjolnir but that one was actually mythical. Not that it means anything, since it most likely won't be in the movie... Which is a good thing.

 

[Gamma Burst]

Wait, I thought that was all Loki's doing and Thor turned out to be very much real, rainbow bridge full of Asgardians and all.

Asgardians are real, yes. Everything was explained in the Ultimate Thor mini.
Thor and other Asgardians were sent to earth as mortals; Thor was part of the european program to develop super humans, where they develop the hammer and the belt. That was before the the Ultimates vol1.

Now, Thor is a God again, and he even have the real Mjolnir, which is basically the same from the 616 universe.

 

[Gamma Burst]

Don't you mean is perfect? You make it seem like EMH is a finished show now.



Did he do that in the comics? I remember in the Ultimates animated movie, Hulk did the exact same thing with Mjolnir but that one was actually mythical. Not that it means anything, since it most likely won't be in the movie... Which is a good thing.

From what i remember, he did. But, no, this 'axe-hammer' is not the real Mjolnir, as I've explained in the previous post.