The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - Part 20

[Marvel united]

Feige is not going to push back The Eternals from 2021 "because it would suck" for you.

I don't think Feige would think twice abour pushing back the Eternals for Fantastic Four or X-Men. Priorities need to come first which F4 would be over Eternals. Marvel has shown multiple times in the past that they have a flexible schedule and they can easily move or push films back any time they want.

That's really stupid at this point. The Fantastic 4 aren't going to get superpowers from being in a poorly-shielded spacecraft in Black Widow or Doctor Strange 2, and stuffing that into Guardians of the Galaxy vol 3 would make it an overstuffed pile of garbage when there are so many new characters to introduce organically (Adam Warlock, the High Evolutionary, Moondragon, etc.)

Who said they have to get powers in someone else's movie? Reed and Sue can be introduced as a normal couple before the actual F4 film. Maybe Reed Richards is a brilliant scientist rising through the ranks and he's called by the government to deal with a problem or something. He brings Sue with him.

 

[WeaponXCII]

In terms of visual medium? I think the X-Men got the worst of the end of the stick. The Singer films constantly shy away from sci-fi, fantastical elements from the comics.

The closest we have gotten to seeing the world of comic book X-Men is the Deadpool films.

However, the F4 absolutely have it worse when it comes to terrible films.

My two cents? Both have been mangled and strip-mined by Fox, but the X-men have at least had a string of successful movies that tapped into a handful of core elements that made people love those books.

Moviebob did a great video about it called "The X-men movies are not good" - basically getting Professor X right along with perfectly tapping into the gay youth parallels clearly struck a chord with a lot of fans, alongside consistently delivering a great Magneto and Wolverine.

The problem, of course, is that they never did much beyond that. The actual X-men themselves have always been pretty lame and the series has been hitting the same beats repeatedly since the Clinton administration. The FF might have had movies that delivered more on a superficial level, but they clearly missed the mark in honing in on what made those characters special.

Hmmmm, I think that's a tricky question because there have been so many different movies and different characters costumes etc. within those movies.

I guess I would say FF may have gotten both the best (Tim Story films) and worst (Fant4stic).

But even with the Tim Story films there were things that were off (Thing's rubber suit, Doom, Cloudactus etc.) visually and even more things that were off in terms of characters.

But since I'm a much bigger FF fan than X-Men fan, my perspective is skewed - things that are off on FF bother me more than things that are off on X-Men.

Then from a 30,000 foot perspective, Fox's willingness to change things and unwillingness to make an effort to keep things close is one of the single biggest problems with their films.

Marvel clearly spent a lot of trying to get things like Captain America's uniform right and make sense in the story.

Fox, on the other hand couldn't do something as simple as making Fant4stics 'containment suits' blue.

Interesting thoughts, everyone. I guess the general consensus- and something I'd agree with- is that the (Story) FF films attempt- albeit poorly- to highlight their comic bookishness at the expense of film-making competency, while the X-Men films strive- again, in many ways inadequately and unevenly- for greatness as films in general, while ignoring the more astonishing elements.

I think now that I'm more of a fan since the greater Marvel Universe since 2008, I might watch the 2005/2007 FF with more of a critical eye.

 

[Fallen]

Now here were some really awful superhero films:
Superman 3 & 4
Batman Forever and and Robin
Catwoman
Daredevil and Elektra
Ghost Rider
X-Men 3
X-Men Origins: Wolverine
Green Lantern
Thor: The Dark World
ASM 2

What a FANT4STIC list!

DC movies are almost all awful/bad, IMO. The only ones I can think of that are good are:

- Wonder Woman
- Superman 1 & 2
- Nolan movies
- Burton movies
- V for Vendetta (if that counts as a DC movie)

I can't believe that the last good Superman movie was 40 years ago. Wow.

 

[Yowza]

Narrative Link: Marvel has focused on 1 movie at a time with little threads that may or may not be picked up in Phase 1 and Phase 2. Phase 3 the movies are starting to fold together more narratively speaking but still can generally watch in any order without missing much. Phase 4 I think Marvel can afford to take things a bit further weaving things together moreso.

Eternals sort of sits by itself in one sense as Volume 1, which is what Kirby intended, but afterwards has been used throughout comics to really add to different character's backstory including the X-Men.

There is no reason to delay movies already in planning stages for 2020/2021. Marvel's doing 3 films a year. Sure they have a loaded plate. The phase 4 thread makes this evident all too clearly and movies still being released by Fox needs to mesh itself out.

 

[fan4stic]

I skewed younger for this one:

Sam Claflin as Reed Richards

Emma Watson as Sue Storm

Jonathan Keltz as Ben Grimm

Dylan Sprayberry as Johnny Storm

Oscar Isaac is stil my Doom preference though.

 

[Fallen]

YES to Isaac & Watson, NO to the others.

 

[Marvel united]

Sprayberry actually is a good choice for Johnny imo. Alden would make a better Logan

 

[Detective Conan]

FANTASTIC FOUR STAR IOAN GRUFFUDD WANTS TO BE AN MCU VILLAIN

 

[MasterCat]

Sprayberry actually is a good choice for Johnny imo. Alden would make a better Logan

Ew. Alden should go back to doing comedies.

 

[HBarnill]

I skewed younger for this one:

Alden Ehrenreich as Reed Richards

Emma Watson as Sue Storm

Jonathan Keltz as Ben Grimm

Dylan Sprayberry as Johnny Storm

Oscar Isaac is stil my Doom preference though.

Is it too damn much for the 4 to be racially diversive? Geez.

 

[rebellion]

Is it too damn much for the 4 to be racially diversive? Geez.

Acting like racebending is a must is too damn much. Im honestly sick of it. Characters have looked a certain way on the page for decades. So some fans would like to see them the way they are in their minds eye. If you are getting up in arms about fancast not being diverse, i say you are the problem.

 

[HBarnill]

There are millions of children around the world who have to deal with watching white people (usually straight) onscreen and feel alienated because Hollywood decided to prioritize a race that did not deserve special treatment and abandon “the other”. These characters were created in a time where nearly every single comic book character was white because they didn’t want to offend the south, among other reasons. Nothing changes about the 4 if Sue was black or if Ben was a Muslim. Either you need to stop using the “reflecting the source material” excuse or accept you need to grow up and realize America doesn’t look like it did 50 years ago.

 

[fan4stic]

Is it too damn much for the 4 to be racially diversive? Geez.

If it helps my casting for younger X-Men characters included: John Boyega as Angel, Hailee Steinfeld as Shadowcat, Ryan Potter as Nightcrawler, Brandon Larracuente as Gambit and Lindsey Morgan as Mystique

 

[fan4stic]

There are millions of children around the world who have to deal with watching white people (usually straight) onscreen and feel alienated because Hollywood decided to prioritize a race that did not deserve special treatment and abandon “the other”. These characters were created in a time where nearly every single comic book character was white because they didn’t want to offend the south, among other reasons. Nothing changes about the 4 if Sue was black or if Ben was a Muslim. Either you need to stop using the “reflecting the source material” excuse or accept you need to grow up and realize America doesn’t look like it did 50 years ago.

Ben is jewish.

 

[HBarnill]

And Jewish people aren’t considered white? Then I guess all that hooplah for Scarlett Johansson playing a Japanese character in Ghost in the Shell was entirely unfounded, huh? Hell, Ben’s previous actors weren’t Jewish.

 

[Marvel united]

Sigh.... My stance on this issue is pretty straightforward- the F4 don't need any race swaps. Just give us a faithful F4 film for once that's good.

 

[fan4stic]

And Jewish people aren’t considered white? Then I guess all that hooplah for Scarlett Johansson playing a Japanese character in Ghost in the Shell was entirely unfounded, huh? Hell, Ben’s previous actors weren’t Jewish.

I was saying that Ben is jewish, not muslim. Ben's previous actors don't justify not doing it.

 

[HBarnill]

I was saying that Ben is jewish, not muslim.

And I said nothing would change if they made Ben a Muslim. Hell, such a lovable character portrayed by someone whose race has been demonized by Americans for nearly 2 decades, if longer? That’s great! That and the Ms. Marvel film.

 

[fan4stic]

And I said nothing would change if they made Ben a Muslim. Hell, such a lovable character portrayed by someone whose race has been demonized by Americans for nearly 2 decades, if longer? That’s great! That and the Ms. Marvel film.

Nothing would change about Blade if we made him white. But he's not white, so I don't see why it should be done.

 

[HBarnill]

Nothing would change about Blade if we made him white. But he's not white, so I don't see why it should be done.

Because there’s no shortage of white characters in media. We don’t need to worry about that. How many POC comic book characters, from all publishers, are there, compared to white comic book characters?

BTW, if you are all this pressed about fictional characters being racebended, wait until you hear about that musical that’s become the biggest hit on Broadway.

 

[Marvel united]

The X-Men will definitely need a more diverse cast considering the subject matter. But F4? Nah. Zero need for race swaps imo

 

[MasterCat]

And I said nothing would change if they made Ben a Muslim.

Oh great, Muslims erasing Jews from reality. That's what we need in a popcorn movie.

 

[HBarnill]

Oh great, Muslims erasing Jews from reality. That's what we need in a popcorn movie.

You know damn well that’s not what I meant. And if this is your way of being funny, it isn’t. Your post is both offensive and ignorant. Reported.

 

[MasterCat]

YOUR post is offensive and ignorant. Why do you think it's OK to erase Jewish fictional characters in favor of Muslims? It's Muslim Erik Lehnsherr this and Muslim Ben Grimm that... If it's OK to not have Jewish characters due to pre-existing ones being erased before being adapted, "representation" can't matter as a general principle, can it?

 

[fan4stic]

Because there’s no shortage of white characters in media. We don’t need to worry about that. How many POC comic book characters, from all publishers, are there, compared to white comic book characters?

BTW, if you are all this pressed about fictional characters being racebended, wait until you hear about that musical that’s become the biggest hit on Broadway.

If the studios want to do it, that's their thing, I'll still think it's pointless. But I'm not doing it unless I think it should be, like with some of my X-Men casting.

If you want to cast an actor whose both a solid fit for Ben ans is also jewish and muslim/black/asian/indian/native american etc., I'd accept it, but the character's jewish.