The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[MbJ]

That doesn't mean they can't get a tease for a post credits scene.

Sure, they could make a tease. A lot of things could happen. The question is not about whether or not it's possible but of people being upset that a movie that is coming out far sooner and already has way more creative momentum on it likely getting the tease ahead of it. It entirely makes sense why one'd be more likely than the other, but people don't wanna hear it because they're convinced the X-Men are gonna show up because people happen to like them more, which doesn't really have any bearing on the reality of the situation.

I get that's your personal experience, but I refuse to believe you're interviewing every person on every theater you've been. It's your experience I get.

I don't need to. Carol Danvers is not exactly a household name and your average person doesn't read comic books.

The Eternals have no hype right now.

Right. Just like Captain Marvel when they teased her at the end of IW, or the Guardians when they teased them at the end of The Dark World, or even Thanos when he was teased at the end of the first Avengers. The idea that Marvel's post-credits teases are all meant to be "Oh ****!" moments starring instantly recognizable characters or properties everyone in the audience will recognize is a fiction. If Marvel wants to tease an upcoming movie at the end of Endgame, an arbitrary definition of popularity isn't gonna change their mind.

 

[Lip]

Sure, they could make a tease. A lot of things could happen. The question is not about whether or not it's possible but of people being upset that a movie that is coming out far sooner and already has way more creative momentum on it likely getting the tease ahead of it. It entirely makes sense why one'd be more likely than the other, but people don't wanna hear it because they're convinced the X-Men are gonna show up because people happen to like them more, which doesn't really have any bearing on the reality of the situation.

I get that you're point is that "they're already developing The Eternals" so it's more likely. But I still don't see it happening. And it's not just about the FOX characters. I could see them teasing something related to Skrulls, for instance. Teasing one of them being infiltrated in the Avengers, stuff like that. Just bigger. Is it realistic in terms of time having the Eternals there? Yes. Is it big enough? I don't think so.

I don't need to. Carol Danvers is not exactly a household name and your average person doesn't read comic books.

Yes, most people do not read the comics and never will. But they've been watching superhero movies for quite sometime and they have access to internet. I remember reading news, articles and reviews about Wonder Woman and Black Panther and the importance of representation, and most of them mentioned the fact that the Marvel (which everybody knows by now) will be bringing their first female hero on the big screen soon.

Like I said before, there is a huge difference between not associating that symbol with Carol (only the geeks will), and being completely clueless about Marvel's first female solo hero.

So they can watch that scene, find out what that symbol means later and say "Oh, so that's for their upcoming female superhero movie"

 

[MbJ]

Just bigger.

As I said previously, the "it's not big enough!" complaints are largely ahistorical since Marvel's never had a problem with teasing lesser known characters in these films before.

Yes, most people do not read the comics and never will. But they've been watching superhero movies for quite sometime and they have access to internet.

By that same reasoning (which I don't quite buy, but I'll play along) the Eternals tease wouldn't be an issue either then since I'm sure many a blog would have covered it by the time Endgame is out.

 

[MewMewTwo]

Unpopular opinion here:
For the most part, i do not want the rights going to disney.

The Spiderman movies made by Sony, the ones made by Sam Raimi, were for the most part good, the Amazing ones were not "amazing" at all (except that Green Goblin/Gwen Stacy scene, that was awesome) and Homecoming was the worst Spiderman movie of them all (and the sequel does not look much better)

The Fantastic Four movies were not good (The one with the Silver Surfer had its moments) and they were just like an mcu movie, if they were part of it they would have been praised, but in this case i do want them to be part of the mcu, the Human Torch and The Thing have the personality of "witty quips" that disney likes so much in Marvel, but they will probably go overboard with the humor sadly.

Now, the X-Men franchise, THAT is the one that i dont want nowhere near disney/Marvel.
All of the movies from that saga have been from good to awesome (okay the Wolverine trilogy was not very good, but whatever) and i highly doubt that we are gonna get actual good X-Men movies from the mcu, the reason being that what makes the X-Men movies good is the tone, it is serious, dramatic, tragic, and the mcu does not dare to go "full Marvel" yet, they always have to put some out of place joke or dissapointing villains or third act.

They are never gonna make something like X2 or DOFP.

Even Infinity War, the best mcu movie and a pretty good movie overall, struggled between serious and "fun" at times, and the quality of the mcu overall has been pretty inconsistent: we can get a Winter Soldier, an Infinity War, or we can get a Thor Ragnarok or an Iron Man 3, is pretty random.

I dont get at all that mentality of "any superhero/marvel movie that is not part of the mcu is bad", that is not true at all, there are even people wanting Dark Phoenix to bomb at the box office or not even released at all, and say that is gonna be an awful movie already (and some people say that Apocalypse is a bad movie, i mean WTF is literally a comic book movie)

I am gonna put a quick example and then end this already endless wall of text: Doctor Strange is an awesome movie, really good Marvel story, however it has a lot of jokes that are 100% out of place and do not fit with the tone of the movie at all, is like after reading the finished script a producer came and said "that is nice, now put some jokes here here and there".
Because of that the movie does not reach the quality it should, the jokes are so bad and so forced and used to kill the tension the serious moments or the characters, that bring the whole movie down.
And this happens in pretty much every mcu movie, and it never happened in the X-Men movies (that i can remember).

Short version: If the mcu can fix its tonal inconsistencies, i would love to see all characters in the mcu, it would be mind blowing to have a group shot like in comic books with 50 characters and all the stories happening in the same place, but as it stands today, no thanks.
We got BP and IW that they were good serious movies and even those had some awfully out of place jokes shoe horned in them, and then Antman and the Wasp which was just embarrasing, and Captain Marvel and Avengers Endgame look good, they look serious, but i cannot help but fear that at some point they are gonna have a "invisible Drax" kind of bad forced joke in there at some point.

If the mcu can stop going overboard with the humor, it really would be best for everyone, the audience and the quality of the movies themselves.

/Rant

 

[Darkprime]

The most I think we might get is F4 might get slotted in at the tail end of phase 4.But otherwise were not getting xmen in phase 4. Feige has made it clear they arent even thinking about the fox characters unless hes lying.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

He's lying and telling the truth. You'd have to be crazy to think hes not thinking about xmen and F4 in an unofficial capacity. But they have plans and a full plate and a waiting period so itll be a few years before anything really materializes.

 

[Lip]

As I said previously, the "it's not big enough!" complaints are largely ahistorical since Marvel's never had a problem with teasing lesser known characters in these films before.

In Avengers movies? I don't remember that. I only remember Thanos, where they were setting up IW, and Fury asking for help when getting dusted, which is a set up for the next Avengers movie happening only a year later.

By that same reasoning (which I don't quite buy, but I'll play along) the Eternals tease wouldn't be an issue either then since I'm sure many a blog would have covered it by the time Endgame is out.

You didn't get the point. Captain Marvel for being a female solo movie alone has a hype that it's "worthy" to be in IW, plus the fact that that was also an Endgame tease. Their first female solo hero is a huge deal for them and for a lot of people. Again, the success of both Wonder Woman and Black Panther shows that. Captain Marvel is big in a way The Eternals isn't. What is it that The Eternals has to offer that is so big and worthy to be in the post-credit scene of Marvel's biggest movie to date, like being the first female solo hero of the MCU?

 

[MbJ]

In Avengers movies? I don't remember that.

You didn't get the point.

No, I got the point, I just don't agree with it because it's very arbitrary. They've had post-credit scenes teasing obscure characters before. There will be post-credits scenes teasing obscure characters in the future. All the hemming and hawing to try and explain why the Eternals can't possibly be the tease here ignore that if Marvel wants it to happen, it'll happen.

Even your argument about how Thanos and Captain Marvel somehow don't count because they were tied to future Avengers movies ignores that you don't know what the plans for the Eternals past their own movie are. They're a group of characters with ties to the Avengers and one of their members was part of the Avengers for years.

It's entirely possible that whatever Marvel has cooked up for the Eternals on film is relevant to Avengers 5.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Kevin Feige and Marvel are trying to put the Marvel Universe on screen.

The X-Men and Fantastic Four are much more important to the Marvel Universe than The Eternals.

Marvel could probably make a successful Eternals film, but fans (both hard-core and more casual) are far more interested in seeing characters like Wolverine, Cyclops, The Thing and Human Torch etc. so those characters would generate more enthusiasm and provide more bang for the buck ( less effort and marketing from Marvel will result in more interest and built-in box office than Eternals ).

There’s almost no question that fans and the studio would prioritize FF and X-Men over Eternals if the could, but they’re currently limited because they don’t have the FF and X-Men rights.

We likely will get Eternals before FF and X-Men, but that’s not becayse they’re preferable on any level. Marvel doesn’t have a choice at this point other than to move ahead with characters they have rather than characters they don’t have.

... but that could change.

 

[ironwez20]

​

Meh or not, most of the GA now know the Guardians and Ant-Man which is what the post was suggesting - taking no-names and making them into household names.

So? It’s not like they are popular then that of xmen or ff. I mean marvel just handles the brand well

 

[ironwez20]

LMAO the Guardians became a legit pop culture phenomenon.



One movie already has a script, a director and is currently casting at least two of the characters, likely for an Endgame post-credit appearance. Given the far reaching plans, this was also likely plotted out at least a few years in advance.

The X-Men and FF, meanwhile, aren't even legally usable just yet (it's a given the deal will go through but it's still yet to be finalized), and outside of vague ideas probably haven't been heavily planned out yet. It's also looking like an increased likelihood that if those characters are in Phase 4, it'll be at the end given all the other movies we've currently had announced in the planning stages (we've got Spider-Man: Far from Home, The Eternals, Shang-Chi and Black Widow coming in Phase 4 plus likely sequels for Black Panther, Captain Marvel, Doctor Strange, the Guardians of the Galaxy, Ant-Man and the Wasp and the Avengers).

That's less "taking precedence" and more common sense. The Eternals are coming out far sooner than either the X-Men or FF, so they likely get the tease. It's not that shocking.

I doubt they became a pop culture phenomenon but ok

 

[MbJ]

So? It’s not like they are popular then that of xmen or ff.

X-Men? That's debatable but I'd absolutely say the Guardians of the Galaxy are currently more popular than the FF. The FF have unfortunately been something of a relic for decades, even before the trainwreck of FF2015.

I doubt they became a pop culture phenomenon but ok

From having not been comatose during 2014 yes, I can say the Guardians became a pop culture phenomenon.

 

[Lip]

Sets up 1) The big bad guy of their entire cinematic universe, 2) Sets up Infinity War

Sets up 1) The conclusion of their biggest story/crossover yet, 2) Their first female solo superhero

Even your argument about how Thanos and Captain Marvel somehow don't count because they were tied to future Avengers movies ignores that you don't know what the plans for the Eternals past their own movie are.

You don't know either, so you can't argue they'll feature the Eternals for possibly a key role they'll have in a future Avengers movie no one knows when will be released.

Also, I just found out this "two eternals in Endgame" rumour is coming from Jeremy Conrad/Manabyte(MCU Cosmic), so I rest my case...

 

[MbJ]

Sets up

Doesn't matter. Your argument right now is basically "Marvel doesn't tease obscure characters in the post credit scenes, except for those times when they tease obscure characters in the post credit scenes."

You don't know either

I'm aware, which is why I said the whole "It only counts if it sets up" distinction was arbitrary. Merely that IF we're going to go that route then it could be argued that's set-up as well.

 

[ironwez20]

Unpopular opinion here:
For the most part, i do not want the rights going to disney.

The Spiderman movies made by Sony, the ones made by Sam Raimi, were for the most part good, the Amazing ones were not "amazing" at all (except that Green Goblin/Gwen Stacy scene, that was awesome) and Homecoming was the worst Spiderman movie of them all (and the sequel does not look much better)

The Fantastic Four movies were not good (The one with the Silver Surfer had its moments) and they were just like an mcu movie, if they were part of it they would have been praised, but in this case i do want them to be part of the mcu, the Human Torch and The Thing have the personality of "witty quips" that disney likes so much in Marvel, but they will probably go overboard with the humor sadly.

Now, the X-Men franchise, THAT is the one that i dont want nowhere near disney/Marvel.
All of the movies from that saga have been from good to awesome (okay the Wolverine trilogy was not very good, but whatever) and i highly doubt that we are gonna get actual good X-Men movies from the mcu, the reason being that what makes the X-Men movies good is the tone, it is serious, dramatic, tragic, and the mcu does not dare to go "full Marvel" yet, they always have to put some out of place joke or dissapointing villains or third act.

They are never gonna make something like X2 or DOFP.

Even Infinity War, the best mcu movie and a pretty good movie overall, struggled between serious and "fun" at times, and the quality of the mcu overall has been pretty inconsistent: we can get a Winter Soldier, an Infinity War, or we can get a Thor Ragnarok or an Iron Man 3, is pretty random.

I dont get at all that mentality of "any superhero/marvel movie that is not part of the mcu is bad", that is not true at all, there are even people wanting Dark Phoenix to bomb at the box office or not even released at all, and say that is gonna be an awful movie already (and some people say that Apocalypse is a bad movie, i mean WTF is literally a comic book movie)

I am gonna put a quick example and then end this already endless wall of text: Doctor Strange is an awesome movie, really good Marvel story, however it has a lot of jokes that are 100% out of place and do not fit with the tone of the movie at all, is like after reading the finished script a producer came and said "that is nice, now put some jokes here here and there".
Because of that the movie does not reach the quality it should, the jokes are so bad and so forced and used to kill the tension the serious moments or the characters, that bring the whole movie down.
And this happens in pretty much every mcu movie, and it never happened in the X-Men movies (that i can remember).

Short version: If the mcu can fix its tonal inconsistencies, i would love to see all characters in the mcu, it would be mind blowing to have a group shot like in comic books with 50 characters and all the stories happening in the same place, but as it stands today, no thanks.
We got BP and IW that they were good serious movies and even those had some awfully out of place jokes shoe horned in them, and then Antman and the Wasp which was just embarrasing, and Captain Marvel and Avengers Endgame look good, they look serious, but i cannot help but fear that at some point they are gonna have a "invisible Drax" kind of bad forced joke in there at some point.

If the mcu can stop going overboard with the humor, it really would be best for everyone, the audience and the quality of the movies themselves.

/Rant

These are marvel characters. They belong to marvel and marvel knows how to handle them. End of story. X-men isn’t supposed to be some grounded, black leather suit wearing , wolverine focused property.

And no homecoming is not the worst Spider-Man movie. Asm2 is. A film made by Sony

 

[ironwez20]

X-Men? That's debatable but I'd absolutely say the Guardians of the Galaxy are currently more popular than the FF. The FF have unfortunately been something of a relic for decades, even before the trainwreck of FF2015.



From having not been comatose during 2014 yes, I can say the Guardians became a pop culture phenomenon.

Lol dude they aren’t. Pokémon is a pop culture phenomenon. Guardians is just popular. They are nowhere near the status of even captain America. Once xmen hits the mcu they’ll be put on the back burner again and forgotten.

 

[MbJ]

Kevin Feige and Marvel are trying to put the Marvel Universe on screen.

The X-Men and Fantastic Four are much more important to the Marvel Universe than The Eternals.

See, that's the thing though. They're "important" in that the hardcore fans think they are. Now, a well done X-Men or FF movie would absolutely be a surefire hit and provide some interesting new pieces to the chess board like Galactus and the concept of mutants.

But they aren't anything that's absolutely 100 percent necessary, which is why I absolutely am willing to believe that regardless of when those rights are finally cleared, we'll be seeing movies for these guys at the absolute earliest at the end of Phase 4.

These are characters who it will be nice to have around, but the posts acting like they absolutely have to be added into the MCU right this moment ignore that Marvel's cinematic empire has largely been built off formerly less popular characters. There's no reason why they need to put any upcoming properties on the back burner to rush these guys out.

Marvel has nothing but time on their hands, and can afford to focus on what's in front of them right now.

Lol dude they aren’t.

They absolutely are. There's a reason I can walk into just about any department store on the planet and find Guardians toys, or why I can make an "I am Groot" joke in public and 99 percent of people are likely to get what I'm talking about. Those movies are tremendously popular.

Once xmen hits the mcu they’ll be put on the back burner again and forgotten.

And yet so far Guardians 2 made more many than any X-Men film at the box office.

 

[Silver Surfer]

Person says Homecoming is the worst Spider-Man movie ever in a world that has seen Spider-Man 3 and ASM2, and expects anybody to take him seriously...

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The only thing clouding this whole issue is the Gunn firing. If this scandal never happened and he was happily working on more Guardians movies, I have little doubt they would be a higher priority than FF/X-Men. They are the more proven characters.

 

[ironwez20]

See, that's the thing though. They're "important" in that the hardcore fans think they are. Now, a well done X-Men or FF movie would absolutely be a surefire hit and provide some interesting new pieces to the chess board like Galactus and the concept of mutants.

But they aren't anything that's absolutely 100 percent necessary, which is why I absolutely am willing to believe that regardless of when those rights are finally cleared, we'll be seeing movies for these guys at the absolute earliest at the end of Phase 4.

These are characters who it will be nice to have around, but the posts acting like they absolutely have to be added into the MCU right this moment ignore that Marvel's cinematic empire has largely been built off formerly less popular characters. There's no reason why they need to put any upcoming properties on the back burner to rush these guys out.

Marvel has nothing but time on their hands, and can afford to focus on what's in front of them right now.



They absolutely are. There's a reason I can walk into just about any department store on the planet and find Guardians toys, or why I can make an "I am Groot" joke in public and 99 percent of people are likely to get what I'm talking about. Those movies are tremendously popular.



And yet so far Guardians 2 made more many than any X-Men film at the box office.

Yea cuase it's popular. it's not a phenomenon. That would be starwars. And so? Gotg is part of the big marvel universe of course it makes bank. I bet if it wasn't it would be in the same lane as xmen. And trust me. Xmen hitting the mcu is going to obliterite GOTG.
Btw you can find merchandise for damn near anything

 

[ironwez20]

Person says Homecoming is the worst Spider-Man movie ever in a world that has seen Spider-Man 3 and ASM2, and expects anybody to take him seriously...

That was a head scratcher. Some people who don't like the MCU need to think things through a bit clearly. Give me homecoming over asm2 anyday

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

And trust me. Xmen hitting the mcu is going to obliterite GOTG.

Spider-Man didn't.

 

[MbJ]

Yea cuase it's popular. it's not a phenomenon.

If by those standards Guardians was not a phenomenon, than neither are the X-Men, since everything I just described also described the X-Men at their peak.

And so? Gotg is part of the big marvel universe of course it makes bank. I bet if it wasn't it would be in the same lane as xmen. And trust me. Xmen hitting the mcu is going to obliterite GOTG.

If that were true, then the Sony Spider-Man movies wouldn't have sold more tickets than Homecoming, but they did. Even unadjusted for inflation, Spider-Man 3 made more money than Homecoming.

 

[Darkprime]

it took us two phases alone to get black panther, doctor strange and captain marvel and marvel own those characters. These things take time those characrers were in development for years all the way back since phase 1 maybe even before that if your ant-man.

Homecoming is an outlier given the circumstances surrounding spidermans "return" marvel had to basically pump the breaks on all their other characters on hold and had homecoming fast tracked. so even if marvel fast tracked xmen or f4 we wouldnt see them till 2021 at the earliest.

Poor old Thor got bumped from the premium July date to November. And Black Panther and Captain Marvel were pushed back months behind schedule id rather they not do that to the phase 4 slate when xmen and f4 come home. Id rather wait till phase 5. But thats just me.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

If by those standards Guardians was not a phenomenon, than neither were the X-Men.

Even in the 90s, X-Men wasn't that big. Big among comic fans and kids growing up watching Saturday morning cartoons, but it had almost no penetration with the mainstream general public until the films. Anyone above a certain age probably never heard of them. They were never worldwide icons like Batman or Superman.