The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[TheVileOne]

They didn't have to. Skrulls are aliens - self explanatory. Sorcerers were explained as being reality warpers who go to different planes of reallty.

The mutant phenomenon directly and indirectly affects every person/human on the entire planet of the MCU. The politics, laws and social norms of the Marvel Universe are informed by mutants. They are ingrained within the societal structure of civilization when they show up.

Something that huge and significant needs to be handled with care and not just lazily thrown into the narrative of the MCU without a proper in-story explanation

That's about as much as they will have to explain mutants. We never even saw what the Supreme Intelligence really is.

 

[Web-Head]

My guess is they'll just have Charles Xavier mention something and move on. It won't be a big deal and the general audience won't think twice about it

 

[TheVileOne]

My guess is they'll just have Charles Xavier mention something and move on. It won't be a big deal and the general audience won't think twice about it

Just like bringing Iron Man into Avengers when everything up to the MCU at that point had mainly been "realistic" and no supernatural, mystical elements, no aliens, alternate dimensions, until Thor.

 

[Marvel united]

That's about as much as they will have to explain mutants. We never even saw what the Supreme Intelligence really is.

Mutants are a much bigger deal than either of those two for the aforementioned reasons explained. Not taking the care to taylor a concept (mutants) that is going to completely change the narrative and structure of your story going foward (MCU) because "nobody will care" is lazy writing that leads to bad storytelling. Skrulls and Sorcerers are not the next stage in human evolution. There are not hundreds of them showing up every single day or splinter groups committing terror attacks. They are not challenging society to pervade their existence. It's not the same.

Marvel has been pretty good with continuity thus far and having things make sense within the context of the MCU. And I'm sure Feige realizes that mutants have to be explained in the MCU

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

But guys for real, and we all know continuity is everything in the world the MCU has established.

A whole race of humans with superpowers ALL sat out fights with Thanos and aliens for almost ten years without a peep?

I mean I’m gonna suspend my imagination regardless but Feige has to cook up a very good reason for mutants all of a sudden being a thing now.

 

[TheVileOne]

But guys for real, and we all know continuity is everything in the world the MCU has established.

A whole race of humans with superpowers ALL sat out fights with Thanos and aliens for almost ten years without a peep?

I mean I’m gonna suspend my imagination regardless but Feige has to cook up a very good reason for mutants all of a sudden being a thing now.

Lots of superhumans and superheroes do the same thing tons of times in these movies and shows. It's nothing new.

 

[Marvel united]

But guys for real, and we all know continuity is everything in the world the MCU has established.

A whole race of humans with superpowers ALL sat out fights with Thanos and aliens for almost ten years without a peep?

I mean I’m gonna suspend my imagination regardless but Feige has to cook up a very good reason for mutants all of a sudden being a thing now.

Seriously, it's like having the next series of MCU films set in the Cenozoic Era and then neglecting to how explain how the heck it happened. That's how much the existence of mutants inform the world of the MU. It's a HUUUGE deal

 

[Raiden]

Here's how I think mutants can be introduced in the MCU:

Spoiler

After the Avengers went to the Quantum Realm and defeat Thanos, thus bringing everybody back (except for the Avengers who died fighting against the Mad Titan), the remaining heroes returned to Earth, only to discover that they've entered another Earth that is similar to theirs, but one where mutants are already existed. The only ones who realized it are the Avengers who left Quantum Realm.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Lots of superhumans and superheroes do the same thing tons of times in these movies and shows. It's nothing new.

True.

But all I’m saying now is that they gotta give us a little something more than just “he’s fast and she’s weird”.

 

[Relugus]

You don't have to overthink the mutant aspect. Everyone is. It's not going to be hard, and it's probably not going to get a ton of focus on where they came from or how it started.

Just for example, Scarlett Witch's powers came from the mind gem and not the reality gem. If you wanted House of M one day, wouldn't the reality gem being the source make more sense?

Using Kurt Busiek's definition, Scarlet Witch's reality warping powers come from Chthon. It's Chaos Magic that makes her powerful. Her mutant powers are very basic energy manipulation, nothing more.
In Infinity War, Vision did after all allude to an unnamed "sufficient power source". There's more evidence of Chthon shenanigans being behind Scarlet Witch than mutation.

Chthon is a very strong candidate for villain in the SW&V Disney Plus series (especially given he can easily give Vision a new soul). If you make a Disney streaming series about Wanda, it makes sense to use her rogues gallery.

Chaos Magic and it's ensuing moral ambiguity and connection to Wanda's emotions, is a richer seam for Feige to explore than her generic mutant powers, and that is at the root of the problem that Wanda has only ever been a bland tertiary plot device and orbiting satellite for Magneto, as far as the X-Men are concerned. She's not important to the mutant narrative, and not needed to introduce mutants, especially as not a single comic book writer has found a way to make her anaemic relationship with Magneto interesting, hence why, tellingly, every writer has focused on the Quicksilver/Magneto dynamic.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

But guys for real, and we all know continuity is everything in the world the MCU has established.

A whole race of humans with superpowers ALL sat out fights with Thanos and aliens for almost ten years without a peep?

I mean I’m gonna suspend my imagination regardless but Feige has to cook up a very good reason for mutants all of a sudden being a thing now.

In both cases, they happened very quickly to an outside observer, and realistically, most people would have heard about them after they were over.

In NY, aliens appeared and within presumably less than 30 minutes were gone (any longer than that and NYC would have been leveled- I infer it was a very short, intense battle).

And let’s imagine, just as a hypothetical, Wolverine happened to be in NYC at the time. We only saw a small part of what happened. Wolverine could have killed a couple aliens for all we know.

And Thanos was even quicker and less noticable to the general public since that was a short battle in Wakanda.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

You gotta ask yourself... If you are a hated and hunted minority if you are even going to go out of your way to draw attention to yourself. Most mutants AREN'T super heroes. They often barely have control over their powers. The X-Men are a unique exception in that they have had training in both control and strategy and tactics. And as far as we know it's still on the table that they were possibly young and too inexperienced to do anything during the various quick but violent bursts of super villainary that have popped up in the MCU.

This in fact could be something that could play into the movies. If the team is indeed made up of the truly young, say all members are under 24, then perhaps Charles is reticent to have them actually take on a mission of any kind at first. You could have that be a something causing tension within the group between themselves and their mentor. "You trained us to be a benefit to the public and to prove that we don't have to be feared. But you haven't let us off campus to actually do anything yet. Why?"

Then the team could do something public against Charles' wishes (which might even explain the use of masks? I don't know... Just spit balling here.) and the X-Men cat is out of the bag.

As for the rest of the mutants... I really don't need all that much explanation. I'm perfectly fine with the idea that we didn't see them... Because we didn't see them. They, like a lot of concepts in the MCU that got introduced, were there all along. We just didn't get a story about them. Sure there are some minor things you can lampshade. You can say that the mutant population was always small and still is comparatively speaking to the rest of the human race. None of this "millions upon millions" of mutants thing. Even if there was a population spread out upon the globe of half a million that's still more than enough to raise all kinds of paranoia and suspicion. Make it that post WWII this phenomenon was small enough to be kinda overlooked in the grand scheme. Enquirer level cover stories. It was also a pre-internet age. Not everybody had cell phones in their pockets with video capabilities. Now however the mutants born between 15 to 25 years ago are coming of age and there's way more and with modern media this fact is getting spread everywhere. By dint of Cerebro Xavier was able to keep tabs on the population's numbers and knew around the time of the first Iron Man that this was going towards a tipping point. Not much later he recruited his team together and post the Thanos arc in the MCU the visibility of super humans is at an all time high. The public still has trust in groups like the Avengers and those that are affiliated with them. Many are well known public individuals. The media savvy tech genius, the respected super soldier from WWII, the "god" who came to Earth and since then has always battled to protect the planet. But the Mutants are causing a different reaction for some good reasons but also for irrational reasons (just like unthinking prejudice in real life. I knew lots of guys in high school that lusted after some high profile Latina hottie like Salma Hayek and Jennifer Lopez that still had pretty racist views and ideas about Hispanics in general and weren't afraid to voice them. They'd say this **** around me and I am Hispanic, and they knew it. People can compartmentalize their racial biases pretty easily.) and there's been escalating social unrest and violence in society with a growing sentiment of something having to be done about "the mutant problem".

Enter Magneto and the Brotherhood whipping up hysteria to his own ends to further his agenda that the emerging mutant population should take their rightful place as the masters of the Earth and his actions are used as proof that this minority is a threat to the rest of the world.

 

[Darkprime]

What about using the spider-man template and just have mutants already exist? Maybe they setup a bit of a mystery surrounding what actually caused their creation and we get little hints and Easter eggs as we go along. Eventually leading to a grand reveal what actually caused the mutant phenomenon in the MCU.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

What about using the spider-man template and just have mutants already exist? Maybe they setup a bit of a mystery surrounding what actually caused their creation and we get little hints and Easter eggs as we go along. Eventually leading to a grand reveal what actually caused the mutant phenomenon in the MCU.

I think there's a wrinkle to that strategy and that's the fact that we are getting an Eternals film before the X-Men. It's going to be filming soon and it's in the post Buy Out of Fox so perhaps the inclusion of the Celestials in that will be all they need to justify the Mutants?

 

[rebellion]

As long as they dont start with teens, im fine with whatever explanation they can come up with

 

[Darkprime]

I think there's a wrinkle to that strategy and that's the fact that we are getting an Eternals film before the X-Men. It's going to be filming soon and it's in the post Buy Out of Fox so perhaps the inclusion of the Celestials in that will be all they need to justify the Mutants?

This is true. its already been rumored that Eternals will setup the existence of mutants. It would be cool if the post credit scene for eternals was in the present day and its Xavier visiting a museum learning about the origins of mutants. From events that happen in the movie.

 

[Spidey_62]

I can't wait to see the X-Men actually wearing suits like their comic book counterparts and not being embarrassed about wearing them or when they do wear comic book suits they show them for more than 10 seconds. Give me Professor X in his gold hoverchair lol.

 

[Marvel united]

You gotta ask yourself... If you are a hated and hunted minority if you are even going to go out of your way to draw attention to yourself. Most mutants AREN'T super heroes. They often barely have control over their powers. The X-Men are a unique exception in that they have had training in both control and strategy and tactics. And as far as we know it's still on the table that they were possibly young and too inexperienced to do anything during the various quick but violent bursts of super villainary that have popped up in the MCU.

This in fact could be something that could play into the movies. If the team is indeed made up of the truly young, say all members are under 24, then perhaps Charles is reticent to have them actually take on a mission of any kind at first. You could have that be a something causing tension within the group between themselves and their mentor. "You trained us to be a benefit to the public and to prove that we don't have to be feared. But you haven't let us off campus to actually do anything yet. Why?"

Then the team could do something public against Charles' wishes (which might even explain the use of masks? I don't know... Just spit balling here.) and the X-Men cat is out of the bag.

As for the rest of the mutants... I really don't need all that much explanation. I'm perfectly fine with the idea that we didn't see them... Because we didn't see them. They, like a lot of concepts in the MCU that got introduced, were there all along. We just didn't get a story about them. Sure there are some minor things you can lampshade. You can say that the mutant population was always small and still is comparatively speaking to the rest of the human race. None of this "millions upon millions" of mutants thing. Even if there was a population spread out upon the globe of half a million that's still more than enough to raise all kinds of paranoia and suspicion. Make it that post WWII this phenomenon was small enough to be kinda overlooked in the grand scheme. Enquirer level cover stories. It was also a pre-internet age. Not everybody had cell phones in their pockets with video capabilities. Now however the mutants born between 15 to 25 years ago are coming of age and there's way more and with modern media this fact is getting spread everywhere. By dint of Cerebro Xavier was able to keep tabs on the population's numbers and knew around the time of the first Iron Man that this was going towards a tipping point. Not much later he recruited his team together and post the Thanos arc in the MCU the visibility of super humans is at an all time high. The public still has trust in groups like the Avengers and those that are affiliated with them. Many are well known public individuals. The media savvy tech genius, the respected super soldier from WWII, the "god" who came to Earth and since then has always battled to protect the planet. But the Mutants are causing a different reaction for some good reasons but also for irrational reasons (just like unthinking prejudice in real life. I knew lots of guys in high school that lusted after some high profile Latina hottie like Salma Hayek and Jennifer Lopez that still had pretty racist views and ideas about Hispanics in general and weren't afraid to voice them. They'd say this **** around me and I am Hispanic, and they knew it. People can compartmentalize their racial biases pretty easily.) and there's been escalating social unrest and violence in society with a growing sentiment of something having to be done about "the mutant problem".

Enter Magneto and the Brotherhood whipping up hysteria to his own ends to further his agenda that the emerging mutant population should take their rightful place as the masters of the Earth and his actions are used as proof that this minority is a threat to the rest of the world.

I'd be pretty okay with this pitch. Although I still think you need to present mutants as an evergrowing population that is expanding at an insane rate. Otherwise, nobody on the human side has anything to worry about and the last thing anybody will be thinking is that mutants spell doom for mankind

 

[divan]

I do think mutants need a bit of an explanation though. Superhumans ARE/WERE rare in the MCU, I don't need the X-Men to show up in Wakanda but I think it's important to know why something like say, S.H.I.E.L.D., didn't notice that many people with superpowers, why people like Captain Marvel are such a huge deal and why Nick Fury thought it was a good idea to search for a presumed dead costumed hero from the forties, a guy in an armor suit or a guy that can't control his superpowered alter-ego for his defense team when there's people with powers all around.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

I just hope they get the tone right too. There has to be a distinction between your Avenger and your Omega Level Mutant.

People love the Avengers but people have to fear mutants because ANYONE could wake up and have powers beyond control, and that sends the general population into a panic.

I know everyone loves the Fantastic Four, I just really, really love the mutants. 90’s X-Men was my first comic book growing up, so it has a space in my heart. They have to get it right.

 

[TheVileOne]

Using Kurt Busiek's definition, Scarlet Witch's reality warping powers come from Chthon. It's Chaos Magic that makes her powerful. Her mutant powers are very basic energy manipulation, nothing more.
In Infinity War, Vision did after all allude to an unnamed "sufficient power source". There's more evidence of Chthon shenanigans being behind Scarlet Witch than mutation.

Chthon is a very strong candidate for villain in the SW&V Disney Plus series (especially given he can easily give Vision a new soul). If you make a Disney streaming series about Wanda, it makes sense to use her rogues gallery.

Chaos Magic and it's ensuing moral ambiguity and connection to Wanda's emotions, is a richer seam for Feige to explore than her generic mutant powers, and that is at the root of the problem that Wanda has only ever been a bland tertiary plot device and orbiting satellite for Magneto, as far as the X-Men are concerned. She's not important to the mutant narrative, and not needed to introduce mutants, especially as not a single comic book writer has found a way to make her anaemic relationship with Magneto interesting, hence why, tellingly, every writer has focused on the Quicksilver/Magneto dynamic.

I can't put much stock in these ideas and MCU introducing Chaos Magic.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

What about using the spider-man template and just have mutants already exist? Maybe they setup a bit of a mystery surrounding what actually caused their creation and we get little hints and Easter eggs as we go along. Eventually leading to a grand reveal what actually caused the mutant phenomenon in the MCU.

I am absolutely fine with idea of Mutants and/or FF already existing and not being mentioned. Realistically things that are known and just a part of life aren't mentioned frequently. The MCU has given us maybe 60 hours of film time. In my past 60 hours of waking time, here are just a small sampling of things that exist but haven't (from my memory) come up in conversation:

1. The sun.
2. Gorillas
3. The congress of the USA
4. Gravity
5. The moon landing.
6. Oranges

etc. etc. etc.

Yet all of those things clearly and unquestionably exist in our reality. And the more common and obvious, the less likely they are to come up in conversation.

If mutants were obvious and well-known, and Bruce Banner said to Tony Stark, as they were discussing the mind-stone, "Hey, how about those mutants. That's some s***, huh?" Tony would likely look at him like he was on drugs.

And even if someone says: "No, I really think someone would have mentioned mutants at some point."

My advice is to get past it. I'm willing to accept a talking raccoon and Norse God come to life.

 

[Iceman]

I am absolutely fine with idea of Mutants and/or FF already existing and not being mentioned. Realistically things that are known and just a part of life aren't mentioned frequently. The MCU has given us maybe 60 hours of film time. In my past 60 hours of waking time, here are just a small sampling of things that exist but haven't (from my memory) come up in conversation:

1. The sun.
2. Gorillas
3. The congress of the USA
4. Gravity
5. The moon landing.
6. Oranges

etc. etc. etc.

Yet all of those things clearly and unquestionably exist in our reality. And the more common and obvious, the less likely they are to come up in conversation.

If mutants were obvious and well-known, and Bruce Banner said to Tony Stark, as they were discussing the mind-stone, "Hey, how about those mutants. That's some s***, huh?" Tony would likely look at him like he was on drugs.

And even if someone says: "No, I really think someone would have mentioned mutants at some point."

My advice is to get past it. I'm willing to accept a talking raccoon and Norse God come to life.

Agreed. And from that list, the one that really upsets me is the lack of mention of gorillas to date in the MCU.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

The main thing I care about is being true to the mutant concepts and the individual characters. Mutants are a new species born with powers that manifest in adolescence in time of stress. They are hated and feared, both because of their abilities and also because they appear to be a new species of humanity that the old is afraid will supplant them. Attaching this to some sort of "magic" object that turns people mutants, greatly diminishes the racial message of what mutants are supposed to represent. They are a specSeveral individual mutants are also really old, going back decades (ex. Xavier, Magneto) or even centuries/millennia (ex. Wolverine, Apocalypse), so the mutant gene cannot be a result of recent events. I think there is little interest in seeing the main X-Man crew (ex. Cyclops, Storm, etc.) be a bunch of teenagers as well, we want them to be comparable to The Avengers, so they would also have to be mutants prior to whatever is happening now in the MCU unless you wait a decade-plus to use them (which I doubt fans would be happy with).

That's basically the brunt of it, In order to be done properly, mutants:

1. Need to be naturally occurring.
2. Need to have been around a long time (although growing rapidly in numbers in modern times).

Those are two very key things that need to be intact.

 

[BeserkerHilf]

I've seen it. Opinion unchanged.

Co-signed.