The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[WeaponXCII]

While we discuss these things, I think it's easy for us to lose sight of the fact that we're a very specific subset of the larger movie-going audience. A subset that often has different thoughts and positions than the vast, vast majority. We care about a lot of things that they just simply... don't. We see this crop up all the time in discussion of how closely the movie plots follow their comics storylines. People weren't lining up in droves for a refund because Avengers: Infinity War didn't follow the comic (and heck, none of us really complained). And so, when that magnificent day comes I really just don't see anyone going, "Oh, cool, there's Wolveri- Hey wait a minute!!! You didn't explain where mutants come from!!! I want my money back!!!" I've seen firsthand people questioning why the X-Men didn't pop up in one of the movies. The audience isn't going to suddenly do a complete 180 on something they actively want.

And besides that, I just find it hard to believe that audiences will be sitting there mentally combing through upwards of a decade of continuity to figure out if Iron-Man ever mentioned the merry mutants while following a movie.

 

[Web-Head]

Spot on. The general audience doesn't really care as long as they enjoy the movie.

Same with Captain Marvel, they don't care why Fury didn't call her during the Avengers nor is it something they're really curious about.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Sidebar: I just finished watching Fantastic Four 2005 on my DVR and who the hell thought it was a good idea to give Jessica Alba blue contacts and call her Susan Storm?

 

[MbJ]

As long as they dont start with teens, im fine with whatever explanation they can come up with

I really don't see any situation where they begin with the O5, so you're probably fine.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

I really don't see any situation where they begin with the O5, so you're probably fine.

Well the original five wasn't very successful to begin with and it was the Giant Sized team in the 70s that saved the X-Men from irrelevance, so that's a good reason not to use the Original 5 right there.

It is a school so there will be teens, but hopefully not the main cast. The X-Men should be more Avengers and less Spider-Man. That's what New Mutants is for. I don't think most fans want a Storm that could pass for Black Panther's daughter, for example.

 

[Zarex]

The main thing I care about is being true to the mutant concepts and the individual characters. Mutants are a new species born with powers that manifest in adolescence in time of stress. They are hated and feared, both because of their abilities and also because they appear to be a new species of humanity that the old is afraid will supplant them. Attaching this to some sort of "magic" object that turns people mutants, greatly diminishes the racial message of what mutants are supposed to represent. They are a specSeveral individual mutants are also really old, going back decades (ex. Xavier, Magneto) or even centuries/millennia (ex. Wolverine, Apocalypse), so the mutant gene cannot be a result of recent events. I think there is little interest in seeing the main X-Man crew (ex. Cyclops, Storm, etc.) be a bunch of teenagers as well, we want them to be comparable to The Avengers, so they would also have to be mutants prior to whatever is happening now in the MCU unless you wait a decade-plus to use them (which I doubt fans would be happy with).

That's basically the brunt of it, In order to be done properly, mutants:

1. Need to be naturally occurring.
2. Need to have been around a long time (although growing rapidly in numbers in modern times).

Those are two very key things that need to be intact.

What about a X-gene event that acts in a similar fashion to the comics Terrigen bomb? Mutants have been rare and operating in the shadows for years and then because of the incident involving the Quantum Realm and/or Infinity stones suddenly Becky next door got tentacles. The formerly covert X-team is forced from the shadows, mutant paranoia goes through the roof and a bunch of new teenaged heroes get powered up.

 

[Iceman]

I may be in the minority, but I dont need or want a x-men tease at the end of Endgame. I want Endgame to be its own thing and end with an avengers related after credits scene.

I want Marvel to announce their x-men plans in a different way, either a classic Marvel panel with all the press present,or something else, but I want the X-men to get their first big announcement in a different moment, just "the x-men day" if you get what I mean. not the "avengers premiere day"

We could get that, and then maybe a tease or link in Eternals.

 

[Detective Conan]

This is true. its already been rumored that Eternals will setup the existence of mutants. It would be cool if the post credit scene for eternals was in the present day and its Xavier visiting a museum learning about the origins of mutants. From events that happen in the movie.

This idea is brilliant.

 

[Marvel united]

Well the original five wasn't very successful to begin with and it was the Giant Sized team in the 70s that saved the X-Men from irrelevance, so that's a good reason not to use the Original 5 right there.

It is a school so there will be teens, but hopefully not the main cast. The X-Men should be more Avengers and less Spider-Man. That's what New Mutants is for. I don't think most fans want a Storm that could pass for Black Panther's daughter, for example.

It ran for nearly 70 issues so they must have been doing something right. Later books with the original 5 like Season One, First Class and Blue all sold relatively well. Ultimate X-Men focused on a group of teenagers and it lasted for 12 years under the relaunch.

The Giant Sized members were young. Colossus was 18 & Nightcrawler was 20. Scott and Jean were both fresh out of their teens, in their very early 20s.

Teenagers in X-Men: Evolution. Young adults in Wolverine & The X-Men. Teenagers in 1602

Spidey is the same age as them

I don't get the tripedation so many have to the X-Men starting young. It's the logical starting point for the franchise.

Paul Bettany is old enough to be the father of Elizabeth Olsen and nobody seems to have an issue with their relationship

 

[Detective Conan]

I don't get the tripedation so many have to the X-Men starting young. It's the logical starting point for the franchise.

I think a large part of the reason a lot of fans are so against it is that it would just be viewed as a rehash of X-Men Apocalypse(concept wise, not execution wise) in which they already started out with a young team and they just don't want to go down that road again.

If you go young again that means you just focus on the formative years of the X-Men and I think a lot fans want a full-fledged, seasoned X-Men without them being rookies or neophytes and them screw up or something.

I'm fine either way, imo. Personally for myself I would like a middle-ground between young and old but that's just me.

 

[rebellion]

Fox made so many films titled 'x men' but we hardly ever see them as a fully formed team. First class, not fully formed. Large portion of dofp, no team. Apocalypse, not fully formed. And even in the original trilogy, where they are seasoned, we barely see them using their experience and working TOGETHER.
I personally couldnt stand another film about x men becoming x men. Ive had enough of that, to be honest.

 

[Frankeh]

I feel you, rebellion.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

Fox made so many films titled 'x men' but we hardly ever see them as a fully formed team. First class, not fully formed. Large portion of dofp, no team. Apocalypse, not fully formed. And even in the original trilogy, where they are seasoned, we barely see them using their experience and working TOGETHER.
I personally couldnt stand another film about x men becoming x men. Ive had enough of that, to be honest.

Exactly.

This go around let us see them work together as a team and as a family. Cyclops being the tactician he’s known to be, Storm being both the voice of reason and strength, Wolverine being the rebel but still a team player, give us the dynamics FOX never did.

I also want more interactions and character traits. Jean and Storm treating each other like sisters, Rogue calling people sugah, Wolverine and Gambit smoking, give all of that.

 

[Dark Raven]

Will Marvel have a more gender inclusive version of the X-Men? Maybe X-People? Or even call them X-Force? Won't female audiences wonder why they're called X-Men all this time when there are all these females?

 

[Marvel united]

I think a large part of the reason a lot of fans are so against it is that it would just be viewed as a rehash of X-Men Apocalypse(concept wise, not execution wise) in which they already started out with a young team and they just don't want to go down that road again.

If you go young again that means you just focus on the formative years of the X-Men and I think a lot fans want a full-fledged, seasoned X-Men without them being rookies or neophytes and them screw up or something.

I'm fine either way, imo. Personally for myself I would like a middle-ground between young and old but that's just me.

But how is them being full-fledged, seasoned X-Men right out of the gate suppose to carry any dramatic weight when it's not earned? It's like starting Iron Man off like this

And not this

This trailer for instance would have never worked If Rogers, Stark and Thor had all started out at their peak



This is Marvel playing on the journey that these characters have all had that led up to this point.

Spider-Man, Cap, Hulk, Iron Man, Ant-Man, Guardians, Strange, Captain Marvel, Black Panther and pretty much every MCU franchise starter has their hero/heroes start out in their formative years in the first movie and go through some sort of coming of age arc. Heck, even some of the supporting characters. Wanda and Vision's relationship was developed over 3 movies. They didn't just show up hip-deep in marriage with fake children.

 

[Shinobi Shaw]

You guys will hate this idea but being that it’s a Disney property now:



Let this be the first MCU X-Men movie, with some retweeking and reshoots. The whole “Do you know what mutants are?” can be asked to Fury or Stark in a reshoot, then at the end of the movie have MCU Xavier and another X-Men member save the kids from the hospital.

I’m just sorta sad we’ll never see this cut.

 

[Gamma Goliath]

No need to shoehorn something in the mcu that wasn't created for it. That's is a fox movie through and through. Even the cheap angle they chose. Mutant horror flick in an asylum, probably somewhere surrounded by Forrest. Fox movie. Through and through.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

What about a X-gene event that acts in a similar fashion to the comics Terrigen bomb? Mutants have been rare and operating in the shadows for years and then because of the incident involving the Quantum Realm and/or Infinity stones suddenly Becky next door got tentacles. The formerly covert X-team is forced from the shadows, mutant paranoia goes through the roof and a bunch of new teenaged heroes get powered up.

I think those are too recent, but I can get on board the idea that mutants were relatively few in number and then exploded relatively recently. Throughout history we see this sort of thing happening, albeit on much larger timescales. At the end of the Triassic there is a big mass extinction that hit our ancestors and existing archosaurs particularly badly which opened up all sorts of niches allowing for dinosaurs to explode and diversify to fill those spots in the ecosystem. At the end of the Cretaceous a giant asteroid or comet hits the Earth and wipes them out, allowing the mammals to take over. So something where there were maybe a few hundred mutants in the current generation, enough that they around and can form the core of the X-Men and Brotherhood, gives way to the population just exploding in modern children/teenagers. What used to be hundreds of mutants are now millions. Of note, X-Men will probably be coming out around the 10-11 year mark from the original Avengers film. Meaning that those mutant babies born at that time would now be of the age where their powers would be manifesting. Maybe some radiation or something from the Chitauri invasion could spark the boom. That's just one possibility.

I just really don't like the idea of mutants being the direct result of some mystical force. Firstly because there are several characters that clearly need to be mutants long before Thanos/The Quantum Realm appeared on the scene in order to be proper adaptations. Secondly, because mutants in general are a separate species designed to be an allegory for the Civil Rights movement. Just having the Infinity Stones pop them into being makes it more of an accident like Spider-Man or Hulk and really takes away from these characters and what they represent.

 

[HBarnill]

Sidebar: I just finished watching Fantastic Four 2005 on my DVR and who the hell thought it was a good idea to give Jessica Alba blue contacts and call her Susan Storm?

It’s kinda funny how people are getting up in arms over a more diverse F4 for the MCU when we haven’t had an all-white F4 cast since the Roger Corman movie.

Also, given how all human life formed in Africa, technically, no one is white.

 

[Drunken Rider]

Spoiler

 

[Flint Marko]

Sidebar: I just finished watching Fantastic Four 2005 on my DVR and who the hell thought it was a good idea to give Jessica Alba blue contacts and call her Susan Storm?

The same studio that thought sealing Deadpool’s mouth shut was a good idea.

But apparently us superhero fans are supposed to be covering ourselves in ashes and groveling at their demise

 

[TheVileOne]

You guys will hate this idea but being that it’s a Disney property now:



Let this be the first MCU X-Men movie, with some retweeking and reshoots. The whole “Do you know what mutants are?” can be asked to Fury or Stark in a reshoot, then at the end of the movie have MCU Xavier and another X-Men member save the kids from the hospital.

I’m just sorta sad we’ll never see this cut.

No.

 

[Marvel united]

I'm guessing James Gunn will add SS to GOTG3

 

[TheVileOne]

I hope not. It would just be too much. Gunn was wise enough to realize adding Adam Warlock to the second movie was a bad idea and would've over-crowded things.