The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 24

[Iceman]

Disney's Q4 earnings call is now just 2 days after the EU is set to make its decision on the approval of the deal. Looks like Disney is expecting some good news.

Hope so. The earnings calls next year after the deal has closed are going to be super-interesting too.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I think the writing is on the wall there. Even if we assume the omen is on Netflix to cancel (i.e. as long as they keep ordering, Disney/Marvel has to produce them) I would think each season is negotiated individually. Disney could charge a premium for the shows making it unfeasible for Netflix to pick up a new season. It wouldn't surprise me at all to hear DD, Punisher, JJ, Defenders being officially cancelled on Netflix in the coming months.

But in the report it indicates that cost was not the reason Luke Cage was not picked back up. It was a disagreement over creative differences (plot points and episode count). Maybe Disney is trying to stir the pot to force their hand, but it doesn't seem to be over finances in Luke Cage's case.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Honestly, my hope is all the Netflix shows even if cancelled continue on Hulu (since that is a more adult oriented platform Disney can use) and continue the shows as opposed to reboot. Merge Luke Cage and Iron Fist into a Heroes for Hire show and continue the other 3 there. Though honestly, I'd like Netflix to keep the other 3 shows going so we can be guaranteed those ones will continue at least. We can move LC and IF to Hulu either way since their cancellation is official. I know many say just move them to Disneyplay or whatever they're calling it, but they won't want edgier content on that service. That's why Hulu makes more sense.

But we shall see. 1 is a fluke. 2 is a trend. If Daredevil gets cancelled, especially now that I finished season 3, I will riot. Best superhero show out there on any platform. That had better continue.

 

[Darkprime]

But in the report it indicates that cost was not the reason Luke Cage was not picked back up. It was a disagreement over creative differences (plot points and episode count). Maybe Disney is trying to stir the pot to force their hand, but it doesn't seem to be over finances in Luke Cage's case.

Personally I'm more inclined to believe the Disney is pulling everything from Netflix theory rather than the "creative differences" crap netflix is shouting. And these "cancellations" are an unfortunate causality of the streaming wars Disney has started. It just makes sense from a business standpoint and i'm pretty sure Disney wouldn't have done the Netflix deal unless there was a way for them to pullout whenever they want. The same can be said for Netflix I imagine like Disney they have every right to sever their business relationship with Disney. Especially If Disney is about to become a company rival in 12 months.

I don't think the shows are done they'll go on a temporary hiatus. While Disney establishes its streaming and direct to consumer platform. I think Disney/Hulu will save this shows its not a matter of if its a matter of when. And when who knows we could be waiting a while.

 

[ADollarADay]

But in the report it indicates that cost was not the reason Luke Cage was not picked back up. It was a disagreement over creative differences (plot points and episode count). Maybe Disney is trying to stir the pot to force their hand, but it doesn't seem to be over finances in Luke Cage's case.

Honestly, my hope is all the Netflix shows even if cancelled continue on Hulu (since that is a more adult oriented platform Disney can use) and continue the shows as opposed to reboot. Merge Luke Cage and Iron Fist into a Heroes for Hire show and continue the other 3 there. Though honestly, I'd like Netflix to keep the other 3 shows going so we can be guaranteed those ones will continue at least. We can move LC and IF to Hulu either way since their cancellation is official. I know many say just move them to Disneyplay or whatever they're calling it, but they won't want edgier content on that service. That's why Hulu makes more sense.

But we shall see. 1 is a fluke. 2 is a trend. If Daredevil gets cancelled, especially now that I finished season 3, I will riot. Best superhero show out there on any platform. That had better continue.

I'm just saying it could be something Disney could use to force Netflix's hand if they are indeed constrained in the way I described. Another way could be forcing creative or other differences. Making things hard on Netflix.

As you said 1 is maybe a one off (And Iron Fist was poorly received), but 2 is starting to look like a trend. Especially in such a short time (and with Iger having promised more info on their DTC strategy in December). Luke Cage was well received, had a good following, and didn't get renewed. We also never heard about a Defenders season 2 and the page was quietly changed to a more generic "fiction" one or whatever on facebook. I think by now we should have expected a Season 2 announcement of Defenders, so I think that's unofficially gone too. The next one to get cancelled (if it doesn't buck the trend) would indeed be DD, followed by Punisher, and JJ to close out.

I do agree if they move it would be to Hulu (or FX+, however Disney wants to play the mature side). I think a reboot is more likely though.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I'm just saying it could be something Disney could use to force Netflix's hand if they are indeed constrained in the way I described. Another way could be forcing creative or other differences. Making things hard on Netflix.

As you said 1 is maybe a one off (And Iron Fist was poorly received), but 2 is starting to look like a trend. Especially in such a short time (and with Iger having promised more info on their DTC strategy in December). Luke Cage was well received, had a good following, and didn't get renewed. We also never heard about a Defenders season 2 and the page was quietly changed to a more generic "fiction" one or whatever on facebook. I think by now we should have expected a Season 2 announcement of Defenders, so I think that's unofficially gone too. The next one to get cancelled (if it doesn't buck the trend) would indeed be DD, followed by Punisher, and JJ to close out.

I do agree if they move it would be to Hulu (or FX+, however Disney wants to play the mature side). I think a reboot is more likely though.

I would be okay with a retooling, using the same continuity. But outright reboot, I would not be interested. It would kill my interest almost completely. Primarily because Daredevil ain't going to be better. Rebooting just so he can hang out with Spider-Man is ludicrous to me. I doubt they will go that far.

 

[Darkprime]

Id be slightly concerned about the Punisher given this news a few months ago.

'Walking Dead': Jon Bernthal to Return in Season 9

 

[Spider-Fan]

Id be slightly concerned about the Punisher given this news a few months ago.

'Walking Dead': Jon Bernthal to Return in Season 9

Isn't there a rumor about the season being 10 episodes as well? That would concern me if true.

Also, we won't get a better Punisher or Kingpin outside of the ones currently offered. Another reason a reboot would be stupid to me

 

[Iceman]

Also, we won't get a better Punisher or Kingpin outside of the ones currently offered. Another reason a reboot would be stupid to me

Yeah, these versions of Punisher and Kingpin are going to be almost impossible to beat.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yeah, these versions of Punisher and Kingpin are going to be almost impossible to beat.

Exactly, so why even try? Just use the continuity established already in the shows and the same actors. It really causes no problems to do so, even if they want to do some light retooling and such to make the shows better. Want to add more fantastical elements to Iron Fist? Just add them. I don't want to watch another show covering basically the same story beats we already saw. Even if in the case of IF it may turn out better, but in other cases like DD or Punisher, I see it just turning out inferior. So just use what we got.

 

[Darkprime]

There's no reason Feige couldn't move Charlie Cox, Bernthal or Donofrio into the MCU. They don't have to reference the events in the Netflix shows. I would be perfectly happy recasting Luke Cage,Iron Fist and Jessica Jones though . The latter 3 are honestly the weak links in the netflix marvel universe.

But If any of the Netflix shows are safe its daredevil. Hes the Netflix Iron Man. There's a reason why Daredevil gets the biggest marketing push, the most prestige from Netflix. There's no way he gets cancelled id be damn well surprised if it did.

 

[Spider-Fan]

There's no reason Feige couldn't move Charlie Cox, Bernthal or Donofrio into the MCU. They don't have to reference the events in the Netflix shows. I would be perfectly happy recasting Luke Cage,Iron Fist and Jessica Jones though . The latter 3 are honestly the weak links in the netflix marvel universe.

But If any of the Netflix shows are safe its daredevil. Hes the Netflix Iron Man. There's a reason why Daredevil gets the biggest marketing push, the most prestige from Netflix. There's no way he gets cancelled id be damn well surprised if it did.

I agree it is the most safe, but Luke Cage's cancellation currently has us on a trend that alarms me. I do think of the shows if 1 is to survive, it is Daredevil. But by that same token, if they announce Daredevil's cancellation, then I think that spells doom for all of them. No one will survive if Daredevil cannot.

 

[Iceman]

Exactly, so why even try? Just use the continuity established already in the shows and the same actors. It really causes no problems to do so, even if they want to do some light retooling and such to make the shows better. Want to add more fantastical elements to Iron Fist? Just add them. I don't want to watch another show covering basically the same story beats we already saw. Even if in the case of IF it may turn out better, but in other cases like DD or Punisher, I see it just turning out inferior. So just use what we got.

I agree totally. If they are allowed to take what they want from the existing material with no obligations towards Netflix, then they should take whatever has worked and be free to change whatever hasn't. Bernthal and D'Onofrio ARE Punisher and Kingpin, no two ways about it.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I agree totally. If they are allowed to take what they want from the existing material with no obligations towards Netflix, then they should take whatever has worked and be free to change whatever hasn't. Bernthal and D'Onforio ARE Punisher and Kingpin, no two ways about it.

I am in 100% agreement

Even if they cannot make direct references to events in past seasons, there is no reason they cannot just move forward and be vague about things prior.

 

[Iceman]

I am in 100% agreement

Even if they cannot make direct references to events in past seasons, there is no reason they cannot just move forward and be vague about things prior.

Works for me. Ideal scenario in fact. Watching Daredevil right now I really would hate to have to give this up or have it replaced with a new version. It's amazing so far and puts many other CB shows to shame. The best show is just getting better while inferior shows are failing to close the gap.

 

[Darkprime]

Anyone else think that Feige might not do another huge phase 3 reveal for phase 4 and may just decide to reveal say only the 2020 movies at comic con or D23? Along with a vague "oh btw we got x-men and fantastic four back we're working on those but that's all we can say right now stay tuned for more info" I think they regretted doing the Phase 3 reveal event.

So much changed. From getting spider-man back and having to delay a bunch of movies. adding ant-man and the wasp. removing the infinity war part 1 and 2 titles. cancelling inhumans which they could have done discretely had we not known the entire slate. I think they're going to be a lot more careful about how they share information in the future. I could see them doing a year by year reveal instead.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Yeah, I get the sense that the phase reveal thing they had at the El Capitan a few years back was just a one time thing

 

[Iceman]

There's no reason Feige couldn't move Charlie Cox, Bernthal or Donofrio into the MCU. They don't have to reference the events in the Netflix shows. I would be perfectly happy recasting Luke Cage,Iron Fist and Jessica Jones though . The latter 3 are honestly the weak links in the netflix marvel universe.

But If any of the Netflix shows are safe its daredevil. Hes the Netflix Iron Man. There's a reason why Daredevil gets the biggest marketing push, the most prestige from Netflix. There's no way he gets cancelled id be damn well surprised if it did.

Agreed, although I'd keep Krysten Ritter too, even if she isn't up there with Cox, Bernthal and D'Onofrio.

 

[Iceman]

Anyone else think that Feige might not do another huge phase 3 reveal for phase 4 and may just decide to reveal say only the 2020 movies at comic con or D23? Along with a vague "oh btw we got x-men and fantastic four back we're working on those but that's all we can say right now stay tuned for more info" I think they regretted doing the Phase 3 reveal event.

So much changed. From getting spider-man back and having to delay a bunch of movies. adding ant-man and the wasp. removing the infinity war part 1 and 2 titles. cancelling inhumans which they could have done discretely had we not known the entire slate. I think they're going to be a lot more careful about how they share information in the future. I could see them doing a year by year reveal instead.

Some fair points.

At the same time, I think it really gets everyone, as in the kind of people who would be looking for and would make themselves aware of that kind of information, totally invested for the long term. They don't necessarily have to deliver on everything on their list 100%, just do their level best to. I don't think many would have been that disappointed looking back at the Phase 3 announcement and what we ended up getting (to me even better than what I had imagined at the time of the announcement), with anything except the loss of Inhumans. Plus the announcement itself becomes a part of the MCU and its history for me. I'd be very disappointed if they changed what I want to become a permanent tradition.

 

[Iceman]

I agree it is the most safe, but Luke Cage's cancellation currently has us on a trend that alarms me. I do think of the shows if 1 is to survive, it is Daredevil. But by that same token, if they announce Daredevil's cancellation, then I think that spells doom for all of them. No one will survive if Daredevil cannot.

If Daredevil gets cancelled who cares, the world is lost.

 

[Darkprime]

Some fair points.

At the same time, I think it really gets everyone, as in the kind of people who would be looking for and would make themselves aware of that kind of information, totally invested for the long term. They don't necessarily have to deliver on everything on their list 100%, just do their level best to. I don't think many would have been that disappointed looking back at the Phase 3 announcement and what we ended up getting (to me even better than what I had imagined at the time of the announcement), with anything except the loss of Inhumans. Plus the announcement itself becomes a part of the MCU and its history for me. I'd be very disappointed if they changed what I want to become a permanent tradition.

Thats true. But take the cancellation of the July 2020 movie. Because we don't know what it is all we can do is speculate. Maybe it was Guardians 3. Maybe it wasn't. well likely never know and that's the advantage Marvel have this time round they can still shift things around without critics throwing too much of a fuss. Right now it looks like typical studio rescheduling and reshuffling. And it benefits us the fans as well. If/when the fox deal closes they can quietly insert some x-men and fantastic four movies and not have it leak/announced until their ready.

Unless the trades get a sniff of it then sure but even then its all rumours until its announced right? The phase 3 event also undermined Age of Ultron and made it feel insignificant because we were all thinking well **** Civil War is out next year why should I care about Age of Ultron?

 

[ludovica]

if it doesn't buck the trend

I see what you did there. Did you?

 

[Iceman]

Thats true. But take the cancellation of the July 2020 movie. Because we don't know what it is all we can do is speculate. Maybe it was Guardians 3. Maybe it wasn't. well likely never know and that's the advantage Marvel have this time round they can still shift things around without critics throwing too much of a fuss. Right now it looks like typical studio rescheduling and reshuffling. And it benefits us the fans as well. If/when the fox deal closes they can quietly insert some x-men and fantastic four movies and not have it leak/announced until their ready.

Unless the trades get a sniff of it then sure but even then its all rumours until its announced right? The phase 3 event also undermined Age of Ultron and made it feel insignificant because we were all thinking well **** Civil War is out next year why should I care about Age of Ultron?

If you've got a Gunn-type situation it can avoid further unnecessary embarrassment and discomfort, granted, but you'd hope that kind of thing is rare. I think there are significant advantages of pre-announcing a long slate of films to go with the disadvantages you've mentioned (which I accept and make sense), but the key thing is that quality wins out at the end anyway and when you have the unprecedented foundation that the MCU has you don't have the same downside risks when you change/cancel/add last minute material. Audience trust is there and pretty much there regardless, so I see it almost as a free opportunity for awesome marketing. If the final films released are different to the slate but feature a consistent lineup of greats, the majority aren't going to care that film X was delayed by a year, film Y was introduced out of the blue and film Z was outright cancelled.

As long as the belief can be maintained that the announcement was made in good faith at the time it was made (and not subject to being completely torn up like we've seen with DCEU slate announcements), I think the advantages outweigh the upsides of not doing it. Plus if they were to stop doing these and still release a raft of great films, I would miss the ability to anticipate years in advance with a pre-planned structure that really allowed me to feel like I was part of the experience.

Edit: also I didn't really get that with AoU, and didn't feel that was the case on the Hype in the AoU threads during the build up. The main thing that let that experience down was Ultron's portrayal.

 

[Darkprime]

If you've got a Gunn-type situation it can avoid further unnecessary embarrassment and discomfort, granted, but you'd hope that kind of thing is rare. I think there are significant advantages of pre-announcing a long slate of films to go with the disadvantages you've mentioned (which I accept and make sense), but the key thing is that quality wins out at the end anyway and when you have the unprecedented foundation that the MCU has you don't have the same downside risks when you change/cancel/add last minute material. Audience trust is there and pretty much there regardless, so I see it almost as a free opportunity for awesome marketing. If the final films released are different to the slate but feature a consistent lineup of greats, the majority aren't going to care that film X was delayed by a year, film Y was introduced out of the blue and film Z was outright cancelled.

As long as the belief can be maintained that the announcement was made in good faith at the time it was made (and not subject to being completely torn up like we've seen with DCEU slate announcements), I think the advantages outweigh the upsides of not doing it. Plus if they were to stop doing these and still release a raft of great films, I would miss the ability to anticipate years in advance with a pre-planned structure that really allowed me to feel like I was part of the experience.

Edit: also I didn't really get that with AoU, and didn't feel that was the case on the Hype in the AoU threads during the build up. The main thing that let that experience down was Ultron's portrayal.

Don't get me wrong I want them to do a huge phase 4 reveal including x-men and F4 but personally I just dont see it happening. Imagine if they announce a marvel event for later this week. And they reveal the entire slate through say 2019-2025. Wouldn't that undermine Avengers 4 to some degree and take away that films spotlight? I think some announcements will be spread across comic-con and D23. 2020 films at comic-con and x-men and fantastic four reveals at D23.

 

[Iceman]

Don't get me wrong I want them to do a huge phase 4 reveal including x-men and F4 but personally I just dont see it happening. Imagine if they announce a marvel event for later this week. And they reveal the entire slate through say 2019-2025. Wouldn't that undermine Avengers 4 to some degree and take away that films spotlight? I think some announcements will be spread across comic-con and D23. 2020 films at comic-con and x-men and fantastic four reveals at D23.

Sure, I wasn't actually commenting on the likelihood of it happening anyway. I have no idea what they are thinking on that front, and was just talking about my preferences and the reasons I would hope they would consider. Also I wouldn't be surprised if they hadn't fully decided on the best way to integrate the F4 and mutants into the MCU yet even if they are well on the way to deciding.

And I don't know if announcing future films undermines films that are coming out sooner to some/many (I'm assuming it must do if you're mentioning it and feel that way yourself?), but for me announcing a stronger and longer slate gets me that bit more excited for every film on the slate as the whole journey feels that much more epic.