The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 4

[ernesth100]

I just wanna see Wolverine vs Hulk and Hulk vs Thing.

 

[wobbly]

Wasn't Namor being a Mutant a Retcon anyway?

Fox wouldn't have any claim to Tony Stark if Marvel decided to make his genius the result of having a mutant mind (Forge's long lost brother arc) either.

Yup. Originally (The Timely days) Namor was a human/ atlantean hybrid. The mutant retcon came after he was revived in the 60's (covered the powers beyond his heritage, like winged heels/flight and greater strengh). I think it was just suspected he was a mutant at first and he was confirmed as one later on.

 

[Endeavor]

Wasn't Namor being a Mutant a Retcon anyway?

Fox wouldn't have any claim to Tony Stark if Marvel decided to make his genius the result of having a mutant mind (Forge's long lost brother arc) either.

Yes it was.
One of the oldest retcons around, but a retcon nonetheless.

 

[Mike5575]

I didn't know (because I couldn't care less) that they hadn't cast that role yet.

It might be a big deal for hard-core Marvel fans, but most will just say: "Captain who? Is that the "Shazam" guy?"

It's nice that you don't care, but you are not everyone else.

I think the reverse would be true. Hard core comic book fans will know Billy Batson as Captain Marvel, but since his film is called "Shazam", the only Captain Marvel the GA will know is Carol Danvers. Marvel also announced her movie a year and a half ago. When it was announced, people that normally don't talk about comic book movies got excited about it. People are more excited about upcoming Marvel projects than DC.

If the F4 are announced, I don't know. They're damaged goods. Captain Marvel will be promising something new, fresh, and wasn't ruined by another studio's incompetence. I rule out the X-Men returning to the MCU any time soon because Fox is still making money off of them. Then there's the fact that she's Marvel's first female superhero movie, as well.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Your not serious are you? People are insanely excited for Wonder Woman. Way moreso than CM...

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

It's nice that you don't care, but you are not everyone else.

I think the reverse would be true. Hard core comic book fans will know Billy Batson as Captain Marvel, but since his film is called "Shazam", the only Captain Marvel the GA will know is Carol Danvers. Marvel also announced her movie a year and a half ago. When it was announced, people that normally don't talk about comic book movies got excited about it. People are more excited about upcoming Marvel projects than DC.

I have to assume you're pretty young. Everybody from my generation knows this:

Is Captain Marvel. There weren't any TV shows or cartoons of the other Captain Marvel. I didn't know anybody who read Marvel's Captain Marvel, but those who did knew him as a guy, not Carol Danvers.

And while you might scoff that my generation is out of touch, my generation read comic books when that was THE thing to do. We didn't have the internet, video games, home video libraries etc. Comic books were a big deal to us and when Spider-Man and Iron Man films came out, we took our kids (who never read comic books) to see them.

Marvel/Disney will likely do a very good job of Marketing Captain Marvel and introducing her to people before the film comes out, but the simple fact is very few people know or care who Captain Marvel is at this moment.

 

[ernesth100]

But technically doesnt Marvel own the rights to the name Captain Marvel now? Hell DC even changed the comics character name to Shazam now I think.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

But technically doesnt Marvel own the rights to the name Captain Marvel now? Hell DC even changed the comics character name to Shazam now I think.

I believe there was some copyright fight, but you can't wipe the memories of people who used to watch the TV show.

Bottom line - ask 10 random people who Captain Marvel is. If more than two can tell you it's "Carol Danvers", I'd be amazed.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I just typed "Captain Marvel" into Google.

This is the first thing that came up:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Marvel_(DC_Comics)

 

[ernesth100]

I mean, personally both are amazing heroes and I hope both their films succeed. I don't care what people call them.

 

[Dasher10]

Honestly, Captain Marvel was still around for decades. She was just known as Ms. Marvel. Marvel had to keep a character called Captain Marvel in print to avoid losing the copyright to DC so they had Monica Rambeau (now Spectrum) as Captain Marvel in the 80s and 90s. despite her having no connection to the original in any way. Then in the 2000s, there was Genis-Vell (now Photon) who was the son of the original Captain Marvel but the only reason why his title wasn't canceled was due to Peter David entering a bet with Bill Jemas who was Marvel's President of Publishing.

Ms. Marvel was Marvel's spin-off title but the sales for Brian Reed's run were so good that Marvel just decided to rename Genis to Photon and rename Carol Captain Marvel. Ms Marvel was now no longer being used so they created Kamala Khan.

And the original Captain Marvel was killed off because he was a boring character.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Honestly, Captain Marvel was still around for decades. She was just known as Ms. Marvel. Marvel had to keep a character called Captain Marvel in print to avoid losing the copyright to DC so they had Monica Rambeau (now Spectrum) as Captain Marvel in the 80s and 90s. despite her having no connection to the original in any way. Then in the 2000s, there was Genis-Vell (now Photon) who was the son of the original Captain Marvel but the only reason why his title wasn't canceled was due to Peter David entering a bet with Bill Jemas who was Marvel's President of Publishing.

Ms. Marvel was Marvel's spin-off title but the sales for Brian Reed's run were so good that Marvel just decided to rename Genis to Photon and rename Carol Captain Marvel. Ms Marvel was now no longer being used so they created Kamala Khan.

And the original Captain Marvel was killed off because he was a boring character.

And this is the problem. Nobody knows or cares who Captain Marvel is. I used to read a lot of comic books and if someone had said "Captain Marvel" to me two years ago, I would have thought Shazam. If they corrected me and said: "No, the Marvel version." I would have said: "Oh, yeah. I remember some blonde guy with wrist-bands or something." If they said, "No, the woman, Ms. Marvel", I would have said: "OHHH! I get it now. . . you mean Sharon Ventura. Yeah, I remember her."

I never went to anybody's house and saw they had Carol Danvers posters hanging on their wall.

Howard the Duck is a lot better known and more liked than Captain Marvel.

 

[ernesth100]

I'd say both Captain Marvel and Carol are actually on equal terms of popularity right now tbh. Both only appear in animated features and comics as of late. Neither has a film yet like the big hitters that LITERALLY everyone knows Iron Man, Hulk, Bats, Supes, Spidey etc.

When these film come out tho, the real question is who will be more popular amongst the GA?

Edit: And even realer wuestion is how did we jump from F4 to Carol vs Billy?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Edit: And even realer wuestion is how did we jump from F4 to Carol vs Billy?

Well if we want to bring it back on topic - If Marvel really wants to do a cool female superhero, they should be doing Sue Storm.

 

[Endeavor]

Well if we want to bring it back on topic - If Marvel really wants to do a cool female superhero, they should be doing Sue Storm.

Turn her into Malice and have her kick everybody's a$s

 

[Dark Raven]

Well if we want to bring it back on topic - If Marvel really wants to do a cool female superhero, they should be doing Sue Storm.

Jessica Alba and Kate Mara already did her justice.

 

[Mike5575]

I have to assume you're pretty young. Everybody from my generation knows this:

Is Captain Marvel. There weren't any TV shows or cartoons of the other Captain Marvel. I didn't know anybody who read Marvel's Captain Marvel, but those who did knew him as a guy, not Carol Danvers.

And while you might scoff that my generation is out of touch, my generation read comic books when that was THE thing to do. We didn't have the internet, video games, home video libraries etc. Comic books were a big deal to us and when Spider-Man and Iron Man films came out, we took our kids (who never read comic books) to see them.

Marvel/Disney will likely do a very good job of Marketing Captain Marvel and introducing her to people before the film comes out, but the simple fact is very few people know or care who Captain Marvel is at this moment.

Your missing the point. None of these characters are actually that popular now. I'd say Carol Danvers is more popular because she currently has a movie and people are genuinely more hyped for Marvel movies for reasons other than being comic book fans. People are excited for these films because Marvel has set an incredible precedence DC has not been able to match with their films.

And no, I don't scoff at your generation. I do feel that you have a disdain for newer heroes given the chance to shine since you think a phase lead by Doctor Strange, Captain Marvel, and Black Panther would suck.

I believe there was some copyright fight, but you can't wipe the memories of people who used to watch the TV show.

Bottom line - ask 10 random people who Captain Marvel is. If more than two can tell you it's "Carol Danvers", I'd be amazed.

Ask ten people and be surprised if they have even heard of a Captain Marvel. Tbh, I haven't even heard of Billy Batson until after Carol Danvers became Captain Marvel.

And this is the problem. Nobody knows or cares who Captain Marvel is. I used to read a lot of comic books and if someone had said "Captain Marvel" to me two years ago, I would have thought Shazam. If they corrected me and said: "No, the Marvel version." I would have said: "Oh, yeah. I remember some blonde guy with wrist-bands or something." If they said, "No, the woman, Ms. Marvel", I would have said: "OHHH! I get it now. . . you mean Sharon Ventura. Yeah, I remember her."

I never went to anybody's house and saw they had Carol Danvers posters hanging on their wall.

Howard the Duck is a lot better known and more liked than Captain Marvel.

Now you're just being dishonest. 8/10 people think of Carol Danvers when they hear Ms. Marvel and that's the truth. The other 2/10 would be Kamala Kahn.

People wouldn't have pictures of Shazam or Howard The Duck, but more likely Superman, Batman, Wonderwoman, Spider-Man, Iron Man, or Hulk.

A Fantastic 4 movie would be ok, I guess, but Sue Storm doesn't work as a solo character, none of them do. That's like expecting Marvel to make a Scarlet Witch or Vision movie. I mean, when was the last time Sue Storm even had her own series, if at all?

 

[Mike5575]

Your not serious are you? People are insanely excited for Wonder Woman. Way moreso than CM...

Really, because I think people are gunuinely more excited for Marvel movies than DC. Marvel has built up a larger fan base.

 

[Dasher10]

Well if we want to bring it back on topic - If Marvel really wants to do a cool female superhero, they should be doing Sue Storm.

Except they can't for legal reasons. Even though Carol sat out the 80s and most of the 90s, she was still a popular character in the 70s and beginning with Kurt Busiek's Avengers run in the late 90s, she recovered from an 18 year hiatus and has been popular again for nearly two decades now.

If I recall correctly, Blade was also created in the 70s but sat out the 80s. Nobody is going to talk about how Blade doesn't deserve a reboot because of that. Go on the Defenders forum and you'll see a lot of people begging for a Blade Netflix series.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Nobody is going to talk about how Blade doesn't deserve a reboot because of that.

Hey, I'd never say one film 'deserves' to be made and another one doesn't.

I just know what I like, and I like what I know. I'm 51 years old. I haven't really read a comic book in probably more than 20 years.

Marvel can make Blade or Captain Marvel or Nova or Squirrel Girl movies if they want, they're just not going to get me (or most of the people I know) to bother going to the theater to see movies like that.

I want to see characters that are familiar to me and characters that I like. I'm not going to go to a movie just because it has a character that was in a Marvel comic-book at some point.

I'm not a DC fan, but I'd go to an Aquaman film before I went to a Nova film because I know and am more interested in Aquaman just from seeing him on cartoons, etc.

 

[ernesth100]

Well if we want to bring it back on topic - If Marvel really wants to do a cool female superhero, they should be doing Sue Storm.

Lol, agreed.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Well if we want to bring it back on topic - If Marvel really wants to do a cool female superhero, they should be doing Sue Storm.

This.

 

[jaymes_e06]

Really, because I think people are gunuinely more excited for Marvel movies than DC. Marvel has built up a larger fan base.

No one cares about CM outside of CBM fans. WW is a world icon who's never had a film... who do you think people are more excited for?

Even people who didn't like BvS came out excited to see WW.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

No one cares about CM outside of CBM fans. WW is a world icon who's never had a film... who do you think people are more excited for?

Even people who didn't like BvS came out excited to see WW.

I agree. Will Marvel make more money on Captain Marvel than than WB will with Wonder Woman because of Marvel's marketing machine and the way they'll tie her to other stories and the fact that they've been more skilled at crafting stories and creating better films than WB? Very possibly.

But if someone simply said to me or most people: "Would you be more interested in a Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel film?"

I know I'd go with Wonder Woman and I suspect 80-90% of the population would as well.

 

[Endeavor]

So, uhm, FOX has pulled out of participating in ComicCon because of "piracy concerns", whatever that means.
Honestly? The F4 rights is one of the first things that popped into my head when trying to guess at what the true reason might be.