The Rebooted "Keep Hope Alive" (that the rights can revert back to Marvel) Thread - Part 9

[UltimatePyro9]

Yeah it's totally cool and fun to speculate that these projects are the sign of something greater. But it also doesn't mean "common sense dictates that FF film rights have changed hands."

I agree its doubtful the FF film rights are in Marvel's hands at this point. But I'll admit, its fun to connect these seemingly incidental events (the X-Men TV shows produced) as something linked to a possible scenario (the FF film rights).

 

[Zarex]

Yeah it's totally cool and fun to speculate that these projects are the sign of something greater. But it also doesn't mean "common sense dictates that FF film rights have changed hands."

Who are you quoting here? That doesn't look like one of mine.

I might say something like "common sense dictates Disney/Marvel would include rights reversion in any deal that expands FOX's control over Marvel owned characters".

 

[wobbly]

I'm in the camp that thinks money alone would not have enticed Disney to grant Fox a greater and expanded hold over their IP. Marvel retaining the live action TV rights for X-Men stuff in the old contract was no small thing to give up.

So I'd agree with Zarex that common sense does suggest Fox had to offer more than just a stake in those shows to get the Mouse to agree, but what sealed the deal remains a mystery for now.

 

[Art Freak]

I'm in the camp that thinks money alone would not have enticed Disney to grant Fox a greater and expanded hold over their IP. Marvel retaining the live action TV rights for X-Men stuff in the old contract was no small thing to give up.

So I'd agree with Zarex that common sense does suggest Fox had to offer more than just a stake in those shows to get the Mouse to agree, but what sealed the deal remains a mystery for now.

This. It's been said a thousand times in this thread ad nauseum yet some continue to think that straight cash gets it done. The Mouse does not care for your cute little cash. It doesn't need it.

 

[TheVileOne]

It's not just cash though. Marvel TV gets to co-produce these new shows and increase their sphere of influence.

Now Marvel TV has shows on Netflix, ABC, plus shows in production for Hulu, Freeform, and FXX.

Marvel TV couldn't really move on X-Men live-action TV products in the past because it would've created a potential legal can of worms, similar to the Mutant X situation.

 

[Jordacar]

What if the twist at the end of the "Gifted" pilot is Agent Coulson and the gang coming to call?

 

[TheVileOne]

What if the twist at the end of the "Gifted" pilot is Agent Coulson and the gang coming to call?

That wouldn't happen. Because then you can't keep mutants out of the MCU.

 

[Jordacar]

You're right of course, any X-Men universe needs to be left completely unprepared for dealing with powered people.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So what if Marvel didn't get the FF rights in exchange for allowing Fox to make their TV shows, but did get Galactus, Silver Surfer and Uatu?

 

[Zarex]

It's not just cash though. Marvel TV gets to co-produce these new shows and increase their sphere of influence.

Now Marvel TV has shows on Netflix, ABC, plus shows in production for Hulu, Freeform, and FXX.

Marvel TV couldn't really move on X-Men live-action TV products in the past because it would've created a potential legal can of worms, similar to the Mutant X situation.

The thing is - and we've discussed this before - what changed? Marvel TV has always had the ability to increase their sphere of influence beyond the existing distribution platforms, but outside of Netflix they have sold their product only to platforms in which the Mouse has an ownership interest. So what changed?

Marvel almost completely shut off their investment in the X-Men character family after the Disney buy out. There's an entire thread over on the CBR (the 800 page and counting "The Complex") which talks about the marginalization of the franchise after the takeover. Disney/Marvel could have produced merchandise & animated programs involving X-Men characters at any time but instead chose to leave that money on the table. And there's zero indication that Disney/Marvel wanted to move on live action X-Men television product and split the revenues with FOX. So what changed?

And here is my major sticking point. If the folks at FOX came to me on bended knee asking me to crack open the horribly one-sided 1993 X-Men licensing agreement and requested I grant them additional live action rights, my response would have been "Great! But if the FF character family is not on the table let's hold off discussion until they are." I don't think for a second that the Mouse made their deal solely for a piece of two (or more) shows for a franchise they don't control airing on networks they don't own. So what changed?

 

[ADollarADay]

So what if Marvel didn't get the FF rights in exchange for allowing Fox to make their TV shows, but did get Galactus, Silver Surfer and Uatu?

That's a pretty one sided deal for Fox...given Marvel's history, I can see it.

 

[Spiderine]

They havent disclosed any details whatsoever of this deal. Not one thing. How can it be one sided if nothing has been announced or leaked? There is clearly something to this that benefits both sides in some manner.

And if something happened Marvel wont talk because it may be the biggest spoiler in history regarding the future of Marvel cinema/television.

 

[Zant]

Apparently Jeph Loeb is the one who approached FX with the idea of a Deadpool show. Imagine that.....

 

[Dark Raven]

I bet Marvel and Disney gave up some of these characters to Fox in exchange for cash, because they're so strapped for it, and Fox even promised just to pay them in fish, which they accepted.

So X-Men TV shows for some fish.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

That's a pretty one sided deal for Fox...given Marvel's history, I can see it.

They havent disclosed any details whatsoever of this deal. Not one thing. How can it be one sided if nothing has been announced or leaked? There is clearly something to this that benefits both sides in some manner.

And if something happened Marvel wont talk because it may be the biggest spoiler in history regarding the future of Marvel cinema/television.

Yeah, there are all kinds of possibilities and since Marvel is getting a cut of the TV shows, that combined with other concessions could help balance things out (but as has been pointed out, Marvel doesn't give up control easily - I can't imagine Marvel simply agreeing to let Fox make the shows for a cut without getting something else because Marvel could always lock Fox out and make their own shows based on any of the thousands of characters they control).

And Galactus/Surfer/Uatu for Daredevil (and associated characters) might seem one-sided, but we know Marvel wanted that deal.

And that previously proposed deal combined with other circumstantial evidence makes me think Galactus/Surfer/Uatu is more likely than a complete deal.

 

[Zarex]

Apparently Jeph Loeb is the one who approached FX with the idea of a Deadpool show. Imagine that.....

I'm very happy that FOX and Disney/Marvel are working together on Deadpool, Legion and The Gifted. More cooperation between the two companies is something many of us have been hoping for since the Disney buy out.

 

[GeckoMoria]

Nowhere in the deal is feige's name mentioned. Loeb controlls that thing and Marvel Studios have nothing to do with it. Loeb and Chory saw the opportunity for more acclaim apart of the netflix shows and some extra cash and took it.

That's it. No F4, no Galactus, no nothing. Some of you see ghosts in the attic.

 

[Zarex]

Nowhere in the deal is feige's name mentioned. Loeb controlls that thing and Marvel Studios have nothing to do with it. Loeb and Chory saw the opportunity for more acclaim apart of the netflix shows and some extra cash and took it.

That's it. No F4, no Galactus, no nothing. Some of you see ghosts in the attic.

So your reading of this situation is that Jeph Loeb and Jim Chory are independent actors who are in complete control of all television deals involving Marvel characters and answer to absolutely no one within the Disney conglomerate? And that if those fellas independently decide to make a few shekels on a deal that may not be in the best interests of the extremely profitable Marvel Studios, well thems the breaks?

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Nowhere in the deal is feige's name mentioned. Loeb controlls that thing and Marvel Studios have nothing to do with it. Loeb and Chory saw the opportunity for more acclaim apart of the netflix shows and some extra cash and took it.

That's it. No F4, no Galactus, no nothing. Some of you see ghosts in the attic.

Any decision regarding rights would be done at a corporate level above the divisions.

Perlmutter and Feige can have their say regarding what they feel they want and need, but their bosses are making the decisions.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

So your reading of this situation is that Jeph Loeb and Jim Chory are independent actors who are in complete control of all television deals involving Marvel characters and answer to absolutely no one within the Disney conglomerate? And that if those fellas independently decide to make a few shekels on a deal that may not be in the best interests of the extremely profitable Marvel Studios, well thems the breaks?

Yeah, why don't they just sell the rights and pocket the cash since they apparently own them?

 

[wobbly]

Any decision regarding rights would be done at a corporate level above the divisions.

Perlmutter and Feige can have their say regarding what they feel they want and need, but their bosses are making the decisions.

Yup. Iger is the big cheese at Disney and everyone answers to him at the end of the day.

So any deals being done would go through a chain of executives and lawyers before being signed off. Some would be easy to push through (the Ego thing for example), others would no doubt require more stringent negotiations for the suits to sharpen their teeth on. I'd say the TV shows fall firmly into the latter.

 

[Snaaaaake!]

Do you think that Sony is going to reboot the series for a fourth time outside the MCU with a new cast of characters in 2019? Because I think there's as much likelihood of that happening as our finally getting a sequel to FFINO.

I think Homecoming vs Venom's box office will determine what what happens next.

Sony clearly hates having to depend on Marvel to dig them out of their current hole, so if people choose to support a non-MCU Spider-spinoff then the likelihood of Sony getting bold and stupid again will follow.

I personally haven't been supporting any recent films by Sony (which all suck anyway). And didn't think they reportedly loose about $750M last year in films with no like change in that outside of Spider-man, so even if Homecoming turns out successful their other crappy films that are flopping (Life, Smurfs, RE, etc) will eat away at whatever profit it makes.

 

[Art Freak]

I think Dollar and Gecko (whom interestingly always post around the same time) are forgetting that FOX themselves admitted that they came to Marvel with the television proposals and negotiating took MONTHS. That is not for cash or a stake. All you need to do is know anything about the movie business or common sense in general to know something is happening here regarding rights issues, be they F4 or Galactus and Doom or all or A NEW HOPE. It's not cash. This isn't a "South Park" parody.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think Homecoming vs Venom's box office will determine what what happens next.

Sony clearly hates having to depend on Marvel to dig them out of their current hole, so if people choose to support a non-MCU Spider-spinoff then the likelihood of Sony getting bold and stupid again will follow.

I personally haven't been supporting any recent films by Sony (which all suck anyway). And didn't think they reportedly loose about $750M last year in films with no like change in that outside of Spider-man, so even if Homecoming turns out successful their other crappy films that are flopping (Life, Smurfs, RE, etc) will eat away at whatever profit it makes.

Is Venom really going to happen? I haven't been following too closely, so I don't know if it's real or vaporware.

The whole Sony plan seemed so ridiculous from what I saw that I just assumed they were saying they were planning to make all those non-Marvel films to try to get some leverage to pressure Marvel to give them a better Spidey deal.

But that was just based on the broad things I was seeing and I haven't been paying much attention to the details.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think Dollar and Gecko (whom interestingly always post around the same time) are forgetting that FOX themselves admitted that they came to Marvel with the television proposals and negotiating took MONTHS. That is not for cash or a stake. All you need to do is know anything about the movie business or common sense in general to know something is happening here regarding rights issues, be they F4 or Galactus and Doom or all or A NEW HOPE. It's not cash. This isn't a "South Park" parody.

Yep, they were talking about TV shows at least by Jan 2015 (maybe earlier, I just found this with a quick search): http://screenrant.com/x-men-live-action-tv-show-fox-marvel/

But the announcement didn't come until October: http://screenrant.com/marvel-tv-fox-hellfire-legion/

Interestingly shortly after Fant4stic bombed.