The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Scene Gwen Stacey Died - Part 2

[Morbius]

best not to go down this road though. seems to lead to trouble lol. plus, this is the gwen stacy death thread. i've derailed it enough as it is.

I suppose, but I can't resist good dialogue - it's also certainly a far cry from the old "yeah but the Dark Knight did it THIS way" interjections that a certain former member of the Hype used to bring to the table

 

[Repulsor Blast]

haha

 

[Picard Sisko]

If people complain that TASM2 copied TDK because of Gwen's death, I'm just going to bang my head against the wall until I can't remember what was said.

 

[DigificWriter]

Slight Spoiler alert for anybody who doesn't know about the two featurettes that can be found in the Gen. Discussion thread, but one of them pretty much definitively puts Emma's comments about Gwen 'potentially going to Oxford' into their proper context.

 

[Super Jim]

There seems to be a couple of main pieces to all of this debate.

First, the shots of Spidey/Peter appearing to be late to graduation. Many speculate (and I agree with them) that the graduation happens early in the movie. My belief of this is more from a narrative standpoint than anything else. I'm not sure if there is any "proof" that graduation is at the beginning.

Also, from the pictures it appears as though what is happening at the graduation is a bit off. For example, why would Spidey have his cap on while still wearing his mask? Why would Peter full on kiss Gwen on stage? Also, the pics of Captain Stacey (with chest wounds) shows us that Peter's guilt will cause him to "see" Captain Stacey, or the whole thing is a dream/nightmare.

So, question number one: Do you guys think it is possible that the graduation scene is a nightmare, since we have shots of Peter/Spidey doing things a bit off and the shots of Captain Stacey?

In regard to being late for graduation many are speculating that it's because of the armored car chase.

Question 2: Is there any "proof" to support that?

I believe most believe he is late to graduation because we see him in those pics trying to change from spidey into Peter's grad cap and gown. All of those pics just seem, off...

Anyway, we do know that Spidey will save Max during the armored car chase and then later Max will be in the elevator with Gwen watching what appears to be a live news feed of Spidey dealing with Aleskei and/or Mech Rhino.

Question 3: Although we see Peter on top of a car with a megaphone, which might suggest it's the mech Rhino and not the armored car chase, is there any other reason to believe it's mech Rhino?

So, between Spidey saving Max and the date scene (with the whole machine guns and traffic jams dialogue) we know we have to fit in (at a minimum) the elevator scene, max's apartment and Max's accident. It's also a fair conclusion that the elevator and the apartment happens prior to the accident.

So, it seems to me that the elevator scene directly leads to Gwen's market date and Max at home.

Question 4: Can anyone figure out if that elevator is traveling down? Maybe both Gwen and Max are leaving work, with Gwen heading to the date and Max going home.

This way Gwen could mention the machine guns, since she just saw on tv Spiderman dealing with the Aleskei/Rhino stuff and Max can be shown fixated on Spiderman at home, after he just told us (Gwen) that he wishes he was like Spiderman.

So, the only question is whether the Rhino stuff is one or two scenes. Most of us believe it is two, but can we proove this?

We know the armored car chase will show Max being saved (somewhere near Oscorp, right?) and then Spidey swinging off in pursuit. Who knows where that chase will end. It could be many miles away from Oscorp. We know that Spidey will be shot at by Aleskei and his henchmen (machine guns) and will ultimately take them down and will web up Aleskei and pull his pants down. All of this seems to be focused on the power cell thingee, right?

Question 5: So what is so important about the power cell?

My best guess is that it is needed to fuel the Mech Rhino.

So, do we have to go to jail/Ravencroft with Aleskei? Why couldn't he escape on the way to jail, or even prior to that? What is to say that after Spidey defeats Aleskei he doesn't get freed, get a power cell (there are plenty of others on the truck), get to his hideout with the mech, get in and the second portion of that scene starts?

So, if this was the case, it would go like this:

- Aleskei scene starts
- Spidey saves Max
- Max goes to work (I guess?) or power station
- Spidey takes down Aleskei and his henchmen, Aleskei webbed
- Aleskei escapes and gets a power cell
- Aleskei gets into his Mech
- Rhino fight scene
- Spidey takes down the mech with the manhole cover
- Elevator scene
- Peter goes home to get dressed for date
- Max goes home to be all creepy about Spiderman
- Gwen goes to the date
- Peter goes to the date
- Max goes back to work (maybe he gets called in?)
- Max has his accident
- Time's Square

Of course the other route would be for the Aleskei/Rhino scene to be spilt up into two scenes. But even if it's 2 separate scenes, the above order would still hold true, just there would be more inbetween Aleskei being webbed and him getting to his Mech.

So, Devil's advocate here... what evidence is there that what Gwen and Max are watching is the mech scene and not just the armored car scene playing out? It's just that the date dialogue seems to apply more to the armored car chase scene than a separate Rhino Mech scene with missiles and such.

 

[DigificWriter]

Spoiler

The graduation is definitely real, and there's a completely plausible explanation for why Spidey's wearing his cap and gown as well as his mask and suit when he gets there.

 

[Picard Sisko]

The graduation scene is not a nightmare, I'm sure of it.

 

[Super Jim]

I just watched the featurette. Ok, no doubt, the armored car chase scene leads to Spidey being late to the graduation. The fact that he's on the phone with Gwen (and the armored car) and she's telling him graduation already started, firms this one...

 

[Picard Sisko]

The only thing at the graduation that isn't 'real' is captain stacy's bloody corpse.

 

[Super Jim]

^ Agreed. We now know that Peter is "seeing him everywhere he goes". So he's being "haunted" by Captain Stacy and the promise he made.

So, almost without a doubt the movie will start with some pro-Spidey/New York City thing that turns into the armored car chase (I love the poeple's reaction when he grabs the armored car). By the way, what's with all of those costumes?????

That will lead to him being on the phone with Gwen, who is at graduation.

Spidey will save Max.

Spidey then deals with the whole Aleskei thing.

Peter then gets to graduation.

The Chinatown date must be next.

So, this is in June (armored car chase, graduation and the date).

We also know for sure that there will be snow in a later scene (the cemetary), since it was biodegradable - other featurette). So somehow this movie spans from June (graduation) until at least Novemeber or December on that same year.

So, let's focus on this piece...

Will Gwen leave to go to Oxford?

We know it comes up in the market date, based on her clothing. And we know that that date leads directly to Time's Square. So there's no way she'll go to Oxford prior to this Electro thing being dealt with, which effectively means the entire movie.

So if she's talking about England during the market date, which this featurette just showed, then she never makes it to Oxford.

Now, the only issue I have is the snow at the cemetary...

Logically the movie will now play out during the summer (remember all those people arguing with me about the market scene being Christmas time?). Here is my proof:

- We have the armored car chase leading to graduation (featurette 2 proves this). Does anyone not agree?

- We have Gwen telling Peter about her scolorship and England at the market date (featurette 2 proves this). This means that it's during the summer, maybe June or July, since she hasn't left for Oxford, which starts in say August. Does anyone not agree?

- We know that the market date leads directly to Time's Square (the sizzle proves this). Does anyone not agree?

- We know that Gwen helps Peter defeat Electro (the sizzle and the featurette proves this). I love her yelling out "Peter" after he webs her! Does anyone not agree?

- We know that the Electro finale battle leads directly to Gwen and Gobiln at the clock tower (the sizzle proves this). Does anyone not agree?

So, unless Gwen moves to England and back between the Electro Time's Square and the clock tower, which is highly doubtful, then this all takes place during the summer (June to say July - likely).

But, we still have snow at the cemetary. Well, I think I figured this one out...

You know how there was supposedly this "one year later" section in the script? What if between Gwen dying and the cemetary scene time has gone by. I'm not sure why they would do this, but if there is this "one year later" thing, this would be the timeframe that makes sense. Just confused as to how it seems the majority of this movie is happening during the summer, right after graduation, and yet the movie will have Peter at a cemetary with snow?????

Unless it's a flashback (unlikely).

My other concern with that is what a waste...

If say Gwen dies in July, and then we skip to say December, they just lost 6 months of Spiderman/Peter's life, and a very important part, him dealing with the loss of Gwen. I want to see that, at least a little, in TASM3.

Actually, now that I think about it, with Peter telling Gwen that he is seeing her dad everywhere, what if there is a quick flashback where he is explaining to her how he visited Uncle Ben's grave, or even her father's grave? Or maybe this will be a nightmare sequence with Captain Stacy?

I don't know, it's just that most of the evidence is now pointing to almost all of the important stuff happening between June and July, which makes sense as Gwen would never make it to Oxford, which matches some of the things that Emma has said.

Do you guys all agree that what I'm saying now makes sense, that graduation happens in June and Electro and the Goblin/Gwen death happens likely in July? Is there any evidence that I'm missing to point to Gwen's death happening later, in say October or November? Yes, Gwen wear's a jacket, but I've already proven logically that Time's Square happens in June/July, so I don't think the clothing can be used as evidence. Anything else?

 

[DigificWriter]

It looked to me like Gwen saying "I'm going to England" happens closer to the Electro/Goblin stuff based on her clothing.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Jamie Foxx said that Max gets saved by Spider-Man, and then bumps into him a year later when Spider-Man doesn't remember him. So it seems like the time jump is earlier in the movie, not towards the end.

 

[sl500jazz]

@ Super Jim. I don't know if you saw this. I found proof that about a year passes after graduation and posted it in the main discussion thread yesterday:

Yup. I've posted this in some of the other threads, but the events of the first film take place in the fall of 2012. So it's possible that they graduate in the Summer of 2013 towards the beginning of the movie, and then the film jumps forward to early/mid Spring of 2014 (which would coincide with the dates of the Daily Bugle posts on Tumblr and the time of the film's release). A lapse in time could also help illustrate Max's growing obsession over Spider-man after their initial encounter during the chase scene and would explain some seasonal changes. Harry returning sometime after graduation doesn't necessarily mean that he returns the second that he graduates.

Well, guys and gals, I think I found confirmation of the theory above. The 'year later' time jump occurs after the intro to the movie involving the Aleksei car chase and the Summer graduation. Here's an interview with Jamie Foxx at last year's SDCC.

[YT]u_SeAnS6-Sw[/YT]


At about 4 min in:

Spider-Man says..."You are my eyes and my ears. We are partners, Max."...so when you see Max in his bedroom a year later he has Spider-man posters all over the wall...

 

[Picard Sisko]

That was a great find, sl500jazz, so thank you again for posting this!

 

[sl500jazz]

That was a great find, sl500jazz, so thank you again for posting this!

Thanks again and no prob.

Anyway, I'm not sure if it'll actually be 12 complete months. I think it could be Late May (or Early June) of 2013 to about April of 2014 based on the 'Spring season' casting calls.

 

[Picard Sisko]

If it was exactly 12 months, then they would end up being in the same exact time of the year at the end of the time jump. It could just be around 8-10 months or something like that, or perhaps slightly more than 12 months later.

 

[FN Spider-man]

Guys if you notice when Petter is on the phone with Gwen he has the serum that he took from Aleksei so thats after he(Aleksei) is captured

 

[DigificWriter]

Although Gwen had applied to colleges in TASM1,it wouldn't be out of the question for her to postpone actually going to college until much later, so the one-year time jump doesn't really have any effect on at what point in the movie she tells Pete she's leaving New York for England... which, based on her clothing, seemed to me to be closer towards the Electro/Goblin tower fight stuff.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Although Gwen had applied to colleges in TASM1,it wouldn't be out of the question for her to postpone actually going to college until much later, so the one-year time jump doesn't really have any effect on at what point in the movie she tells Pete she's leaving New York for England... which, based on her clothing, seemed to me to be closer towards the Electro/Goblin tower fight stuff.

I agree.

And it seems like she does tells Peter that she is going to England right before the Times Square battle, which more than likely takes place a year after the graduation.

 

[Super Jim]

So, let me verify one thing...

Gwen's clothing in the featurette date scene, where she is telling Peter about Oxford, matches what she is wearing in the date scene that leads to Time's Square.

This one piece has me confused now. If you watch the featurette you will see at time 1:37 Gwen telling Peter about her scolorship to England. She is wearing the identical clothing as the market date scene. Same jacket, same scarf. Peter is wearing the same clothing as well. Identical to the point where this has to be the market date scene.

So, we know the market date scene leads directly to Time's Square.

For all of this to be factual, and then there to be a one year-ish jump, it would mean that Spidey must take down Electro, he goes to Ravencroft, Gwen goes to England, and then we have a jump in the movie until a year later (give or take).

My question to this is, why?

Why jump a year? What's the purpose? Is it so Gwen can leave and then come back? If so, why? Is it so we see Electro in jail being experimented on for a year? If so, why? What's the pay off for waiting a year?

Also, we know that Gwen recognizes Max at Time's Square, so that means the elevator scene happens (obviously) prior. We also know that the market date happens after a scene where Spidey has a traffic jam and gets shot at with machine guns. At first we thought this would be the armored car chase, but that doesn't make sense now since we know for sure that that scene leads to graduation. Gwen wouldn't talk about Peter being late to a date because of something that already caused him to be late to graduation.

So that means that the machine gun reference is likely due to the second Mech Rhino scene. And this must happen prior to Time's Square, since it must happen prior to the market date.

Also, Jamie's comment about a year later and not recognizing him doesn't make sense. We all agree that Spidey saves him in June, yes? That's right before graduation. We know this for a fact.

We also know that the market date leads directly to Time's Square. We know this from Gwen's clothing and her recognizing Max. We also see them on the date take notice of what is happening at Time's Square.

We now know, from the featurette, that the market date (not Chinatown), due to whate Gwen and Peter are wearing, is where she tells Peter about moving to England.

So if Spiderman doesn't recognize Max at Time's Square, and Time's Square happens directly from the market date scene where Gwen tells Peter about Oxford, which means it's the summer of 2013 since she hasn't gone yet, then Jamie's comments do not make sense!

I'm more confused than ever due to Jamie's comments and what we've seen in the trailers and featurette!

 

[Picard Sisko]

If the film moved ahead 1 year, it would be prior to Max turning into Electro I'm assuming.

 

[Spideyfan117]

If the film moved ahead 1 year, it would be prior to Max turning into Electro I'm assuming.

Yup. It's pre-Electro. Jamie mentions Max's wall being plastered with Spider-man stuff at that point. So, where Max is concerned, there's him being rescued, then there's the time jump, then there's his transformation.

 

[sl500jazz]

The date scene/Times Square does not happen in the Summer of 2013.

- Summer 2013: The armored car chase, Max being saved by Spidey for the first time, Peter being late to graduation, and perhaps the Chinatown scene (where Peter tells Gwen that he's been seeing visions of her father everywhere).

-Cut to several months later: It's Max's birthday (nobody remembers), Max is now obbsesed with Spidey and has posters all over his wall, Gwen has been working full-time at Oscorp, Harry returns to NYC, Aleksei escapes from prison with the Mech suit, Max has his accident, Gwen tells Peter that she's been offered a scholarship to Oxford, Times Square, etc.

 

[Picard Sisko]

The date scene/Times Square does not happen in the Summer of 2013.

- Summer 2013: The armored car chase, max being saved by Spidey for the first time, Peter being late to graduation, and perhaps the Chinatown scene (where Peter tells Gwen that he's been seeing visions of her father everywhere).

-Cut to several months later: It's Max's birthday (nobody remembers), Max is now obbsesed with Spidey and has posters all over his wall, Gwen has been working full-time at Oscorp, Harry returns to NYC, Aleksei escapes from prison with the Mech suit, Max has his accident, Gwen tells Peter that she's been offered a scholarship to Oxford, Times Square, etc.

Makes sense to me.

If the movie moves ahead by 8 months from the graduation, that means it would take place in February (Winter). That would explain the snow and such. A full year of course wouldn't make sense since we would just end up in June of 2014.

 

[DigificWriter]

So, let me verify one thing...

Gwen's clothing in the featurette date scene, where she is telling Peter about Oxford, matches what she is wearing in the date scene that leads to Time's Square.

This one piece has me confused now. If you watch the featurette you will see at time 1:37 Gwen telling Peter about her scolorship to England. She is wearing the identical clothing as the market date scene. Same jacket, same scarf. Peter is wearing the same clothing as well. Identical to the point where this has to be the market date scene.

So, we know the market date scene leads directly to Time's Square.

For all of this to be factual, and then there to be a one year-ish jump, it would mean that Spidey must take down Electro, he goes to Ravencroft, Gwen goes to England, and then we have a jump in the movie until a year later (give or take).

My question to this is, why?

Why jump a year? What's the purpose? Is it so Gwen can leave and then come back? If so, why? Is it so we see Electro in jail being experimented on for a year? If so, why? What's the pay off for waiting a year?

Also, we know that Gwen recognizes Max at Time's Square, so that means the elevator scene happens (obviously) prior. We also know that the market date happens after a scene where Spidey has a traffic jam and gets shot at with machine guns. At first we thought this would be the armored car chase, but that doesn't make sense now since we know for sure that that scene leads to graduation. Gwen wouldn't talk about Peter being late to a date because of something that already caused him to be late to graduation.

So that means that the machine gun reference is likely due to the second Mech Rhino scene. And this must happen prior to Time's Square, since it must happen prior to the market date.

Also, Jamie's comment about a year later and not recognizing him doesn't make sense. We all agree that Spidey saves him in June, yes? That's right before graduation. We know this for a fact.

We also know that the market date leads directly to Time's Square. We know this from Gwen's clothing and her recognizing Max. We also see them on the date take notice of what is happening at Time's Square.

We now know, from the featurette, that the market date (not Chinatown), due to whate Gwen and Peter are wearing, is where she tells Peter about moving to England.

So if Spiderman doesn't recognize Max at Time's Square, and Time's Square happens directly from the market date scene where Gwen tells Peter about Oxford, which means it's the summer of 2013 since she hasn't gone yet, then Jamie's comments do not make sense!

I'm more confused than ever due to Jamie's comments and what we've seen in the trailers and featurette!

The time jump would happen BEFORE things go to heck with Max, Harry, et all, meaning that, despite applying for colleges in TASM1, Gwen stayed in NYC after graduation (probably to work full-time at Oscorp and stay close to Peter).