The Amazing Spider-Man 2 The Scene Gwen Stacey Died - Part 2

[Picard Sisko]

Oh yeah, Gwen only existed in one of the alternate universes of the 90s animated series. That episode was WEIRD.

 

[sl500jazz]

Oh yeah, Gwen only existed in one of the alternate universes of the 90s animated series. That episode was WEIRD.

I liked the first couple of seasons of the 90's series, but things definitely started to get a little weird when MJ got sucked into a portal and they pulled all of alternate dimension stuff towards the end. And of course they had to end the entire series on a big ol' cliffhanger, which I really hated.

 

[Super Jim]

And the web either gets dropped or cut by Goblin (he's holding some sort of hilt looking thing in his left hand).

Looking at the new trailer, that thing that Gobbie is holding sure seems like a knife, like I argued a while back. Guess it could still be some sort of device for drawing blood, but I'm leaning more towards it being a bladed weapon that could be used to... cut Spiderman's web...

It almost looks like it is made to cut webbing...

 

[Nicko-Ray]

Definitely some sort of knife ish. It's sharp, so..

 

[Morbius]

It almost looks like it is made to cut webbing...

Very observant of you. I'm inclined to agree. Otherwise, what a weird looking knife :s

 

[Super Jim]

Guess whether it will be used to cut the webbing is dependent on where Gwen is when they fall down onto the cog. Since we've already proved that this cog is the same as the one Gwen was on the fair question is whether this is before or after.

Logic indicates that this scene is after Gwen was on the cog and fell off since we saw her looking up, logically watching Peter and Harry fighting. So some how she likely falls off the cog, Peter catches her with the web, Harry attacks from behind, and they roll off and land on the same cog (which is what I surmised a while back).

What's great is that in the new trailer we get to see them fall onto the cog. I need to take a closer look to see if Gwen is in that shot. Has anyone done that yet?

In the end maybe the spring loaded knife is just there as a cool effect and nothing more...

 

[JOE]

Ouch man, I don't know how he's going to end up in Ravencroft without his suit. It looks almost moulded to him.

 

[Super Jim]

So, just watched the trailer, very closely, and I think I have confirmation. At time 2:10 you can see Harry-Goblin attack Spidey from behind and they topple over and onto the cog.

There is a single strand of web that appears to go from Spidey's right hand over the side of the cog, between two of the teeth. And since the cog is turning, it makes sense that the web will get caught and severed when it gets caught in the teeth of the vertical cog.

So maybe the cool knife will not be used to sever the web.

I expect Peter will kick Gobbie off, dive after Gwen, web her, and, well, you know...

 

[seishin87]

Ouch man, I don't know how he's going to end up in Ravencroft without his suit. It looks almost moulded to him.

Something is telling me he not might make it to Ravencroft. This mutation looks irreversible and he's clearly been driven mad. Maybe it would be more merciful and tragic if he doesn't survive the clocktower scene. In the Harry thread some have been speculating or hoping that Harry survives, but I come from the school of action/adventure where I actually like it and find it more satisfying when the villains have a clear cut demise, usually a karmic result of their actions. When you got villains doing villainous things like causing death and destruction, I prefer stuff like Norman's fate from SM1 or Ock in SM2 as opposed to The Lizard or Sandman.

Maybe it's because it seems like at least they're gonna bring back several, if not all the villains for the sequels. For me that sorta stuff works better in series/serial type story format, not feature films. I know everyone's excited about a sinister six, but to me it just feels like they're dragging things out at the expense of a satisfying action adventure experience. I'll tell you why both SM-3 and TASM both kinda felt underwhelming at the end. Sandman lived and The Lizard lived. There was something deeply unsatisfying about that for me and it leaves the story incomplete.

The storytelling law of Checkov's gun is very real. Those two large upright gears to the left of Spidey in the shot of them fighting on the cog look just about the right size for Gobby's head to get caught in.

 

[Naite22]

Look, can we soon end this debate? Gwen DIES in TASM2. Everything points directly to it!

But just for the purpose of trying to stir brain-twisting-theories up in this place, how about this. Say she doesn't die! THAT will ironically enough be a total surprise shocker of a twist, which people did not see coming! Cause we all think she's gonna bite it. If you know just a little to the whole spidey-mythology, as we fans tend to do, then this all seems to aim directly at Gwen dying in this one. The signs are about a million and they're not in the slightest vague! The whole team are doing a terrible job trying to hide it. UNLESS! Unless, they're deliberately trying to make the fans think wholeheartedly, that Gwen dying in this film is a sure thing (when in fact she won't)!? If that has been their secretive goal all along, then it's funny enough time to be surprised. Cause that would be the most surprising twist since Star Wars' "Luke, I'm your father!" line. Yes, it's that far out.

But I have a 99% red glowing, strong believe, that Gwen is gonna go bye-bye in this film. The themes surrounding this movie indicates it full on.

 

[Super Jim]

But here's something to think about...

It seems very logical that the clock tower scene happens after Spiderman's and Electo's epic finale battle. Since Electro is the main villain in this one it is more than likely that he will be defeated, somewhat permanently. Yes, jamie Foxx made some statement about how energy never truly goes away, but if anything that means that when Electro is defeated it is definitively understood by the audience. Dead? Maybe, maybe not, but at that moment, from the GA's perspective, he's going to be "dead".

Now Goblin isn't the main villain in this one by any means. Nor is Rhino for that matter. That means that they don't need to be killed. If anything, killing Goblin after Electro was just "killed" is redundant.

What we do know is that odds are, as I've been arguing for what seems like ever now, that Gwen will die because of Harry-Goblin. It would be very bad for the killer of Gwen (or at least the cause) to be dead before it is even found out that Gwen is dead. No, what makes the most sense is for the killer of Gwen to get away so Spidey can not only discover that she is dead (partially because of him), let us see him go through the pain of that realization, and then let us see him get his revenge.

For that to be done properly it will need to be in TASM3.

Also, this story of Gwen's death, which is what this original trilogy is/was, was meant to be told in 3 movies. The first is the origin of both his powers and that love, the second is the climax resulting in her death, and then the third is the resolution. That resolution will need to be focused on Peter dealing with Gwen's death (and no, I don;t mean moping arounf going "woe is me") and exacting revenge on Harry and Oscorp.

As far as whether Harry gets his powers and equipment from Ravencroft or Oscorp, it all comes down to where Electro gets amplified. Since we see in the trailer the whole "Let's go catch a spider" dialogue, which is prior to Harry being transformed, likely that is the place where it happens. There has been speculation of both Oscorp and Ravencroft.

But I think ou;re talking about where he'll end up. Based on the fact that Gwen will be hanging precariously from a web it is most likely that Harry will get away while Peter is trying to save Gwen (just like in The Night Gwen Stacy Died). He'll get away, go hang with the bowler hat guy, help form the Sinister Six (maybe) and be there to be taken down in TASM3. Really no reason for him to be put in jail, and no reason to kill him yet.

 

[Spideyfan117]

The big question for me is: What if Harry wants to take off the suit? A lot of people have reasonably speculated that the suit contains the disease amplified by the serum. So between TASM2 and TASM3, how is he going to live? Does he get Peter's blood and cure himself? That'd be interesting. It's kinda difficult to speculate about it.

 

[seishin87]

But here's something to think about...

It seems very logical that the clock tower scene happens after Spiderman's and Electo's epic finale battle. Since Electro is the main villain in this one it is more than likely that he will be defeated, somewhat permanently. Yes, jamie Foxx made some statement about how energy never truly goes away, but if anything that means that when Electro is defeated it is definitively understood by the audience. Dead? Maybe, maybe not, but at that moment, from the GA's perspective, he's going to be "dead".

Now Goblin isn't the main villain in this one by any means. Nor is Rhino for that matter. That means that they don't need to be killed. If anything, killing Goblin after Electro was just "killed" is redundant.

What we do know is that odds are, as I've been arguing for what seems like ever now, that Gwen will die because of Harry-Goblin. It would be very bad for the killer of Gwen (or at least the cause) to be dead before it is even found out that Gwen is dead. No, what makes the most sense is for the killer of Gwen to get away so Spidey can not only discover that she is dead (partially because of him), let us see him go through the pain of that realization, and then let us see him get his revenge.

For that to be done properly it will need to be in TASM3.

Also, this story of Gwen's death, which is what this original trilogy is/was, was meant to be told in 3 movies. The first is the origin of both his powers and that love, the second is the climax resulting in her death, and then the third is the resolution. That resolution will need to be focused on Peter dealing with Gwen's death (and no, I don;t mean moping arounf going "woe is me") and exacting revenge on Harry and Oscorp.

As far as whether Harry gets his powers and equipment from Ravencroft or Oscorp, it all comes down to where Electro gets amplified. Since we see in the trailer the whole "Let's go catch a spider" dialogue, which is prior to Harry being transformed, likely that is the place where it happens. There has been speculation of both Oscorp and Ravencroft.

But I think ou;re talking about where he'll end up. Based on the fact that Gwen will be hanging precariously from a web it is most likely that Harry will get away while Peter is trying to save Gwen (just like in The Night Gwen Stacy Died). He'll get away, go hang with the bowler hat guy, help form the Sinister Six (maybe) and be there to be taken down in TASM3. Really no reason for him to be put in jail, and no reason to kill him yet.

Well Electro is the main villain of TASM2 much in the same way perhaps you could say Bane was the main villain in TDKR. For the most part yes he was, at least the main physical antagonist. Then there was the final act "twist" villain/mastermind character revealed. You know I think at least some point in the process they might have wanted to keep Harry's role a secret, but after the leaked storyboards they figured might as well be upfront. In effect though he's still playing that kind of role. Where as it seems Electro changes kinda early on, it seems like they are building up to the evoultion, creation birth of Harry's Goblin which happens most likely around the start of or during the final act.

Basically I think Harry's gonna be the Two-face(TDK), Talia(TDKR), Venom(SM3) type villain. All of them did die. Heck even in the first Iron man, Stane wasn't revealed as the main antagonist till near the start of the final act and he becomes Iron Monger for just one fight, but at least for me it was a satisfying fight scene and he got a spectacular OTT comic booky death/demise. And there's no rule against killing multiple major villains in back to back set pieces although in this case, I feel like Electro is not gonna be "dead-dead" or even close to that. He will be defeated but perhaps more clearly along of contained/trapped/neutralized. Even if they do something surprising and kill off one of the members of the much anticipated Sinister Six, there's no reason Harry shouldn't also meet his demise if it plays out that way.

The way I see this scene playing out is Harry and Peter are in a fight to the death on the cog with Gwen hanging over the side by webbing. Somehow the webbing snaps and she falls. As Peter jumps to save her, Harry gets knocked back/out and his head lands between some slow moving cogs. Peter gets to Gwen and already dead, meanwhile Harry comes to and his head is stuck in the gears and we hear his screams as Spidey in his grief and rage does nothing. Now Papa Norman has a really reason to use his resources to form the sinister six and get revenge for Harry which would be an interesting inverse of the original trilogy. If anything might be considered redundant it would be having Harry as a recurring antagonist after he was utilized as such throughout the original trilogy and as for Spidey having someone else to go after for revenge, there's still the whole thing with Uncle Ben's killer. If anything if they are going dark with death of Gwen, they might as well go all out and have him let his best friend die a horrible death.

Heck I could even see them doing something really strange and unexpected. They really are building up the notion that Harry and Peter are close childhood friends. There's that emotional connection, relationship which is gonna be tragically destroyed. What if it's a bait and switch? Gwen lives or is saved by Spidey while Harry meets his fate caught in the gears and wasn't saved because Peter was rescuing Gwen? Peter would still be devastated at the loss of his best friend so hence some of the shots of Peter distraught. I know...given the nature of this thread that's something few want to contemplate. I'm not trying to argue. Just want to state my case for why I would like to see things go a certain way. Either way we have no control over what ultimately transpires in the film. It'll be interesting to see what actually goes down.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

^^ That's one possibility.

 

[Super Jim]

Well Electro is the main villain of TASM2 much in the same way perhaps you could say Bane was the main villain in TDKR. For the most part yes he was, at least the main physical antagonist. Then there was the final act "twist" villain/mastermind character revealed. You know I think at least some point in the process they might have wanted to keep Harry's role a secret, but after the leaked storyboards they figured might as well be upfront. In effect though he's still playing that kind of role. Where as it seems Electro changes kinda early on, it seems like they are building up to the evoultion, creation birth of Harry's Goblin which happens most likely around the start of or during the final act.

Basically I think Harry's gonna be the Two-face(TDK), Talia(TDKR), Venom(SM3) type villain. All of them did die. Heck even in the first Iron man, Stane wasn't revealed as the main antagonist till near the start of the final act and he becomes Iron Monger for just one fight, but at least for me it was a satisfying fight scene and he got a spectacular OTT comic booky death/demise. And there's no rule against killing multiple major villains in back to back set pieces although in this case, I feel like Electro is not gonna be "dead-dead" or even close to that. He will be defeated but perhaps more clearly along of contained/trapped/neutralized. Even if they do something surprising and kill off one of the members of the much anticipated Sinister Six, there's no reason Harry shouldn't also meet his demise if it plays out that way.

The way I see this scene playing out is Harry and Peter are in a fight to the death on the cog with Gwen hanging over the side by webbing. Somehow the webbing snaps and she falls. As Peter jumps to save her, Harry gets knocked back/out and his head lands between some slow moving cogs. Peter gets to Gwen and already dead, meanwhile Harry comes to and his head is stuck in the gears and we hear his screams as Spidey in his grief and rage does nothing. Now Papa Norman has a really reason to use his resources to form the sinister six and get revenge for Harry which would be an interesting inverse of the original trilogy. If anything might be considered redundant it would be having Harry as a recurring antagonist after he was utilized as such throughout the original trilogy and as for Spidey having someone else to go after for revenge, there's still the whole thing with Uncle Ben's killer. If anything if they are going dark with death of Gwen, they might as well go all out and have him let his best friend die a horrible death.

Heck I could even see them doing something really strange and unexpected. They really are building up the notion that Harry and Peter are close childhood friends. There's that emotional connection, relationship which is gonna be tragically destroyed. What if it's a bait and switch? Gwen lives or is saved by Spidey while Harry meets his fate caught in the gears and wasn't saved because Peter was rescuing Gwen? Peter would still be devastated at the loss of his best friend so hence some of the shots of Peter distraught. I know...given the nature of this thread that's something few want to contemplate. I'm not trying to argue. Just want to state my case for why I would like to see things go a certain way. Either way we have no control over what ultimately transpires in the film. It'll be interesting to see what actually goes down.

I like your thought process, but...

Yes, in a few super hero movies there ends up being multiple villains. And yes, we've pretty much established that there is almost always death, whether it's a good guy (Captain Stacy) or bad guy (you can list them if you want). But in most of them you don't get two villains dying. The only super hero movie that I can recall that did this, as you indicated, was The Dark Knight Returns. The main difference is that the hero didn't kill both. I know it's a small thing but it's an important thing. In that one case you had the sidekick, for lack of a better term, in The Catwoman, kill one. This made it less redundant.

In TASM2 there is only one super hero, so I can't see Spidey causing 2 "deaths" (Electro AND Gobbie).

I think the other thing we need to agree with is that Harry won't have been the Goblin for that long when the whole clock tower scene happens. This will actually be his first attack on the Spider. With Electro, he'll have attacked at Times Square and then we'll get him amping up for the finale.

With Iron Monger, that was an origin movie, which often changes the rules a bit. Since so much of the movie needs to be focused on the origin, the villain becomes less important and, as seen with Stane, a one-shot.

In the case of Electro, just because it may seem like he's a goner, as Jamie said "energy never truly goes away". But after what he did his end will need to be definitive. I could see them shooting him out into space, or dissipating him in water. Doesn't mean that he can't come back, just that to the GA he'll be done.

If you really think about it having baby Gobbie get away makes more sense. The death of this villain will be important and they're not going to be able to show it while Peter is trying to prevent the love of his life from going splat. And it would be really odd to have them go back and forth between Peter trying to save Gwen and Harry-Goblin getting caught in the cog. Also, shouldn't the serum make him so strong that that cog wouldn't be able to kill him?

No, I see him getting kicked off and using that opportunity to hop on his scooter and fly away so he can be there for the anticipated revenge in TASM3.

In other words, yes, we know that Norman is the baddie brains behind the scenes, but after this it will be Harry that is the big time baddie, as far as the general audience goes. Killing him off without the build up would be a waste!

And as far as the switch up, there is no way that Peter, who is diving down towards the bottom of the clock tower in order to try to save his love Gwen, would give this type of emotion, while at the bottom of the clock tower, after what is obviously the scene where he is trying to save Gwen, again, at the bottom of the tower, where Gwen was heading, if it was Harry, who just tried to kill him and the woman he loves:

 

[seishin87]

I like your thought process, but...

Yes, in a few super hero movies there ends up being multiple villains. And yes, we've pretty much established that there is almost always death, whether it's a good guy (Captain Stacy) or bad guy (you can list them if you want). But in most of them you don't get two villains dying. The only super hero movie that I can recall that did this, as you indicated, was The Dark Knight Returns. The main difference is that the hero didn't kill both. I know it's a small thing but it's an important thing. In that one case you had the sidekick, for lack of a better term, in The Catwoman, kill one. This made it less redundant.

In TASM2 there is only one super hero, so I can't see Spidey causing 2 "deaths" (Electro AND Gobbie).

I think the other thing we need to agree with is that Harry won't have been the Goblin for that long when the whole clock tower scene happens. This will actually be his first attack on the Spider. With Electro, he'll have attacked at Times Square and then we'll get him amping up for the finale.

With Iron Monger, that was an origin movie, which often changes the rules a bit. Since so much of the movie needs to be focused on the origin, the villain becomes less important and, as seen with Stane, a one-shot.

In the case of Electro, just because it may seem like he's a goner, as Jamie said "energy never truly goes away". But after what he did his end will need to be definitive. I could see them shooting him out into space, or dissipating him in water. Doesn't mean that he can't come back, just that to the GA he'll be done.

If you really think about it having baby Gobbie get away makes more sense. The death of this villain will be important and they're not going to be able to show it while Peter is trying to prevent the love of his life from going splat. And it would be really odd to have them go back and forth between Peter trying to save Gwen and Harry-Goblin getting caught in the cog. Also, shouldn't the serum make him so strong that that cog wouldn't be able to kill him?

No, I see him getting kicked off and using that opportunity to hop on his scooter and fly away so he can be there for the anticipated revenge in TASM3.

In other words, yes, we know that Norman is the baddie brains behind the scenes, but after this it will be Harry that is the big time baddie, as far as the general audience goes. Killing him off without the build up would be a waste!

And as far as the switch up, there is no way that Peter, who is diving down towards the bottom of the clock tower in order to try to save his love Gwen, would give this type of emotion, while at the bottom of the clock tower, after what is obviously the scene where he is trying to save Gwen, again, at the bottom of the tower, where Gwen was heading, if it was Harry, who just tried to kill him and the woman he loves:

Seeing that distraught shot again and thinking about it, I would have to say yeah it doesn't look good for Gwen. Perhaps for me because I like action/adventure films in general and superhero films for the most part fall into the action/adventure department while also being it's own unique genre that combines and blends traditional act/adv and sci-fi/fantasy. There's nothing out of the ordinary or redundant about, at least for me, having most if not all of the major villains die at the end in an act/adv.

That said it doesn't look like they'll be killing off all the villains introduced. Rhino will be back in the sequel for sure, and lets not forget there's still Norman. Of the two characters Electro and Harry Goblin, Electro seems like the more likely to return in a sequel, or defeated a-la Lizard or Doc Ock(SM2) where he comes to his senses. Maybe Electro gets trapped in a capacitor or something like that. I say that because they're planning on the doing the Sinister Six, and there's still Norman, not to mention the set up for Ock, Vulture, and even

Spoiler

venom

. Also Lizard is still around. It's seems more likely to me that we'll Electro round out the group rather than have two Goblins. It's just seems a little bit too busy.

We already have Peter dealing with the whole revenge issue involving Uncle Ben's killer getting away. Having Harry get away after killing Gwen would be a little too much. Also they are creating an emotional buildup to something with whole childhood friend thing so his demise combined with Gwen would be devastating for Peter on the eve of his biggest challenge yet, The Sinister Six. If Harry survives than they should kill off Electro for good, but like I said at least the way I see it, that doesn't seem likely.

For me this has to do with some sense of karmic satisfaction. Having Harry get away after the death of Gwen, for me and perhaps some of the GA will feel short changed. I mean yeah, Sandman got away at the end of SM3 but Brock/Venom still died and he caused Harry's death in that film. Even though there's debate about Venom's "fate" in SM3, given the context of what they did and the direction they took Topher's Brock it worked for me although I much preferred the demise from the novel adapted from the script where the symbiote literally consumes Brock and melts away leaving just a smoking skeleton. That version actually left the door open that maybe a drop of the symbiote infused with Brock could have survived and possibly be used to bring back the character.

All that said I could see them letting Harry get away to bring him back in a sequel, although if that happens and they bring Electro back too at some point than there's a good chance I could wind up being less than satisfied with the finished film. I'm already disappointed they cut the Ratha death scene from TASM, and that had a brilliant set up in the story, "both lose our heads" his name "RAT"ha. If they're gonna let Harry live to die another day, at least let Peter kick him into the cogs and have one of his arms torn off or something. If Gwen dies he needs to pay in flesh and blood. As far as the effects of the serum, maybe they're variable and or wear off, lose potency at times or something? Harry could be the test guinea pig for Norman, and if he winds up dead Norman could use it as some twisted excuse to blame Spidey for what happened when Harry would still be alive had Norman not used him to test the cure or whatever serum/agent it is that causes the transformation. It would should how evil Norman is. That he would sacrifice his own son to save himself.

Again this just how I feel about all of that. The final film could go either way. It is fun to speculate about what will happen. I think the whole clocktower setting evokes this old anime Lupin the film, The Castle of Cagliostro, which had the climatic fight in and around the workings of a clocktower. That sequence served as inspiration for the one in Great Mouse Detective. The main difference being in the Lupin film, some goons actually do get caught in the cogs and meet some nasty ends.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

We already have Peter dealing with the whole revenge issue involving Uncle Ben's killer getting away. Having Harry get away after killing Gwen would be a little too much.

For me this has to do with some sense of karmic satisfaction. Having Harry get away after the death of Gwen, for me and perhaps some of the GA will feel short changed.If they're gonna let Harry live to die another day, at least let Peter kick him into the cogs and have one of his arms torn off or something. If Gwen dies he needs to pay in flesh and blood.

Exactly, Harry can't get way if he causes Gwen death and just look at Norman in the end of The Night Gwen Stacy died.

 

[sl500jazz]

I definitely do not want Harry to be involved in the formation of the S6 in TASM3. Killing Gwen is already a stretch, but continuing to conspire against Peter Parker like that would be completely out of character for him. He may be vengeful and desperate, but he's not evil. I hope that TASM2 marks the end of his evildoing either through tragic death or a major quest for redemption in TASM3. Practically begging on his knees.

...or through some type of unforeseen plot twist that absolves Harry of responsibility.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I think Harry will end up going to Ravencroft at the end of TASM2, and he might return in future films. But I doubt he'll come back as a Goblin ever again. That's Norman's job.

 

[Spideyfan117]

I think Harry will end up going to Ravencroft at the end of TASM2, and he might return in future films. But I doubt he'll come back as a Goblin ever again. That's Norman's job.

But how is he going to get out of his armor if that's what keeps him alive as some have speculated? I do think he'll go to Ravencroft or something. Peter has to do something with him (unless he got what he wanted and escaped).

 

[Andrew Lucas]

He is already dying at the end of Tasm2 so.... I don't think we will see him again and that track" We are best friends" reinforces that for me.

 

[Picard Sisko]

But how is he going to get out of his armor if that's what keeps him alive as some have speculated? I do think he'll go to Ravencroft or something. Peter has to do something with him (unless he got what he wanted and escaped).

I'm just speculating here, but it's possible that Harry will keep the Goblin armor and be held captive at Ravencroft. Perhaps something similar to Electro in his containment suit.

 

[Spideyfan117]

He is already dying at the end of Tasm2 so.... I don't think we will see him again and that track" We are best friends" reinforces that for me.

Spoiler

Dying doesn't seem like it's going to stop Norman. So why should it stop Harry? Especially if he succeeds in getting Peter's blood.

 

[Spideyfan117]

I'm just speculating here, but it's possible that Harry will keep the Goblin armor and be held captive at Ravencroft. Perhaps something similar to Electro in his containment suit.

... I can't believe I was dumb enough to not even consider that. A nice theory for sure, Picard.

 

[Picard Sisko]

... I can't believe I was dumb enough to not even consider that. A nice theory for sure, Picard.

You're not dumb at all lol. There are a number of different possibilities.

But I think whatever does end up happening in regards to Harry Osborn, I just don't hunk that he's going to die at the end of TASM2.