The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - Part 139

[BlackFox]

*sees that V For Vendetta is not in the Top 5 and removes self from conversation*

 

[Reek]

I love Kick-Ass. And I am probably going to crap for it, but I think Superman: The Movie is extremely over rated. I like it don't get me wrong. And Meteor Man isn't on the list... so the list is void.

 

[BatLobster]

If Avengers is really being considered the cream of the crop in the genre in wide circles, I think it's safe for me to say that my tastes are falling out of line with what audiences are responding to. That's not a knock on Avengers, I thought it was a fun movie. I just don't quite "get" it, but it's clear that there's something there that just set people on fire.

 

[BlackFox]

Avengers deserves to be high on the list because it was great fun, it would certainly feature in my top 10 but above TDK or TDKR, not a chance, probably still below Begins as well. It was great to watch but it there wasn't much below the surface to engage your brain with, not that every film should, what it did, it did well.

But then maybe it comes down to the character first, Batman is my favourite character in the comics anyway as he has a depth and is something I can relate too more easily than a God with a hammer.

 

[Deserana]

Other than the brilliant character interaction there is nothing there that makes it better than Iron Man 1 IMO some the action felt there for the sake of action and the final action scene was quite generic.

 

[BlackFox]

Other than the brilliant character interaction there is nothing there that makes it better than Iron Man 1 IMO some the action felt there for the sake of action and the final action scene was quite generic.

Yeah the bad guys really didnt match up well when compared to any Batman film in the current trilogy. The guy who played Loki did a good job but in the league of a Bane or Joker, no just no, not even Ra's, Two-Face or Catwoman.

And as for the alien things, well they were just there to get smacked by the good guys really. Again great fun to watch but nothing of substance.

 

[Deserana]

Yeah the bad guys really didnt match up well when compared to any Batman film in the current trilogy. The guy who played Loki did a good job but in the league of a Bane or Joker, no just no, not even Ra's, Two-Face or Catwoman.

And as for the alien things, well they were just there to get smacked by the good guys really. Again great fun to watch but nothing of substance.

Yeah I don't feel that Avengers will play well on multiple viewings. IMO once I get past "oh it's awesome to see Iron Man and Captain America on the same screen" there isn't much else. As many small flaws TDKR may have it will hold up on multiple viewings.

 

[BlackFox]

Yeah I don't feel that Avengers will play well on multiple viewings. IMO once I get past "oh it's awesome to see Iron Man and Captain America on the same screen" there isn't much else. As many small flaws TDKR may have it will hold up on multiple viewings.

Yes, I'm glad it was entertaining and a worthy watch, it could have been a complete mess but it was far from it, but I doubt it will get as many repeat viewings for myself as any of the Batman trilogy.

TDKR was much more ambitious in everything it attempted to do.

Still reading through the trilogy art book of this at the mo, tis an awesome read.

 

[The Caped Knight]

http://www.sfx.co.uk/2012/08/16/top-50-superhero-movies-of-all-time-2012-edition/

9. BB
4. TDKR
2. TDK

This list is a joke right?

 

[Alex Logan]

**** off is Avengers number 1. A load of fun it maybe but it would never be number 1 compared to some of the others on the list a superbly done comic book film but I struggle to see how it's better than Nolan's trilogy or Kick Ass.

Avengers as no. 1? ...Eh.

Yeah... that's what I was thinking, but you would be surprised just how many people agree with Avengers being #1

 

[Alex Logan]

Other than the brilliant character interaction there is nothing there that makes it better than Iron Man 1 IMO some the action felt there for the sake of action and the final action scene was quite generic.

OMG! I was just saying this the other day. Cheers bro!

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Other than the brilliant character interaction there is nothing there that makes it better than Iron Man 1 IMO some the action felt there for the sake of action and the final action scene was quite generic.

I like how you swat aside "brilliant character interaction" like it's a miniscule thing. It is the equivalent of "other than the brilliant performance of Heath Ledger TDK isn't all that". That is what makes the film. In an age of blockbusters where characters are stilted, brooding and angsty, Avengers is a refreshing return to the form of old Hollywood fun. No, it's not deep. But neither was Raiders or the Wizard of Oz.

 

[gvalladare]

...I enjoy Scott Pilgrim vs The World in multiple views more than The Avengers...but that's just me...

 

[TinkerTailor]

The most ridiculous thing in that list to me is BB being below TDKR.

 

[Deserana]

I like how you swat aside "brilliant character interaction" like it's a miniscule thing. It is the equivalent of "other than the brilliant performance of Heath Ledger TDK isn't all that". That is what makes the film. In an age of blockbusters where characters are stilted, brooding and angsty, Avengers is a refreshing return to the form of old Hollywood fun. No, it's not deep. But neither was Raiders or the Wizard of Oz.

I understand that the character interaction was key part of the Avengers and it is not a miniscule thing I said it was "other than" which pretty much says I thought it was the best thing. I did enjoy The Avengers a lot. I just felt the helicarrier action scene was there because an action scene hadn't occured in a while rather than that point in the story requiring such a scene to happen. Other than the character interaction it wasn't anything more special than Iron Man 1 IMO. To me it felt like the studio were telling Whedon not to take it too far and just keep it generic so hopefully now he has proved himself he will be allowed to do what he wants for Avengers 2.

And to me character interaction is part of what makes the film good not what makes the film good. It also needs good characters (which Avengers had no worries about) and a good story which personally I didn't think Avengers had. Avengers felt more like a finding its feet film (which is not a complaint as it makes complete sense). Keep it simple and make sure it works. If it works we'll go all out next time.

And what I said is not the equivilent of "without Heath Ledger TDK isn't great", (which is a stupid statement anyway IMO) that just means if Ledger wasn't there TDK was a piece of crap what I'm saying without the quick, witty and refreshing interactions of big superheroes in the Avengers it does nothing special. It is still a good film the action is good, it looks good, the acting is good, every character has their moment but their isn't anything that makes it the greatest superhero film known to man.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

And what I said is not the equivilent of "without Heath Ledger TDK isn't great", (which is a stupid statement anyway IMO) that just means if Ledger wasn't there TDK was a piece of crap what I'm saying without the quick, witty and refreshing interactions of big superheroes in the Avengers it does nothing special. It is still a good film the action is good, it looks good, the acting is good, every character has their moment but their isn't anything that makes it the greatest superhero film known to man.

Well of course. It you take out what makes a film special then you are left with a film that's not special. People didn't come to see the final act of the Avengers, that was just the icing on the cake, if they wanted that they would rewatch Bayformers; people came to see all these larger than life characters play off of each other.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Anybody that said Avengers has "nothing of substance" just wasn't paying attention. There was plenty to it, it just didn't try to hit you over the head with its themes.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

The main theme I saw was the whole Subjugation angle of Loki, as well as the Energy Crisis.

 

[Deserana]

Well of course. It you take out what makes a film special then you are left with a film that's not special. People didn't come to see the final act of the Avengers, that was just the icing on the cake, if they wanted that they would rewatch Bayformers; people came to see all these larger than life characters play off of each other.

Have to disagree. People went to see all these big superheroes on the big screen in one film with explosions all around with about 5 years of build up. If anything the fact the character interaction was so good was the icing on the cake. Only people who knew how good Whedon was with large casts (which wasn't that many before Avengers) were expecting it. The GA were expecting a big loud blockbuster with big names that is what all the trailers pointed to.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I think I need to watch The Avengers again

 

[Mob1423]

You can relate to Bruce Wayne because from the moment his parents hit the pavement in Crime Alley to the end of his journey as Batman, his whole life was a realistic tragedy. Stuff like that CAN happen, but it's unlikely. It's not the same with Iron Man; his motive was to create world peace by stopping production of all weapons. That's unrealistic, no one would dare to try that.

People are crazy enough to try and become a Batman of their own. You don't need a mask and armor to say you know what it's like to feel like Batman. We all know what it's like to lose someone we love in different ways, by force or by fate. Most of us have the potential to bury our guilt and hatred, but Bruce Wayne knew he had to carry that weight on his shoulders in order to do what he thought was right. That weight is his Batman.

Trust me, if we never got over losing someone and chose not to move on, the world would be full of different Batmen.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

You can relate to Bruce Wayne because from the moment his parents hit the pavement in Crime Alley to the end of his journey as Batman, his whole life was a realistic tragedy. Stuff like that CAN happen, but it's unlikely. It's not the same with Iron Man; his motive was to create world peace by stopping production of all weapons. That's unrealistic, no one would dare to try that.

Motivation has nothing to do with relatability. Your motivation can be as big as to rule the entire solar system and still be relatable or as small as stealing a lady's purse and be unrelatable. Relatability is overrated anyways; you don't need to relate, you just need to empathize, and both characters can absorb empathy with room to spare.

 

[Herolee10]

Not sure if it's just me, but does anyone else here feel that Gordon's Family and Detective Ramirez SHOULD have been present in this film in some way, if not, even a cameo?

I mean given on how the whole Harvey Dent thing involved Gordon's family and how they most likely left Jim afterwards due to him not being able to tell the truth to the public, along with how Ramirez was the only cop alive who knew the truth about Harvey's doings, I thought that they should have been in the film.

Heck, Bane could have captured Ramirez once finding out that she knew, especially when he couldn't find Gordon, and use her to validate his claim that Dent was guilty while Batman wasn't, and I thought it would have been nice to see Gordon reunited with his family at the end.


Thoughts?

 

[Scarecrow_King]

Motivation has nothing to do with relatability. Your motivation can be as big as to rule the entire solar system and still be relatable or as small as stealing a lady's purse and be unrelatable. Relatability is overrated anyways; you don't need to relate, you just need to empathize, and both characters can absorb empathy with room to spare.

This. A lot of writers tend to forget this.

 

[georgec]

I'm guessing that after the events in TDK, Ramirez got the hell out of Gotham and transferred somewhere else.

As for the Gordons, I didn't mind not seeing them. It made sense for me that after the incident with Harvey, Barbara no longer felt safe around James or with the kids. Plus, James faked his own death without telling her.