The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - Part 141

[Deserana]

Yet all points to Blake being a future Batman. It just won't be the same as Bruce's. Think like when Dick Grayson became Batman on the comics. He was a different Batman, or Terry McGinnis in the DCAU.

That's what I mean. I think he'll use his resources and armour but he want just be Batman. He wont just simply take the mantle and do the same stuff.

 

[BatLobster]

The way I interpreted the whole 3 years of exile thing was once Bruce realizes that his philanthropic endeavor has failed and he's invested his time and money into something so potentially dangerous, he crashes and burns. He realizes he has absolutely nothing and hits rock bottom. He can't help in the way he craves to as Bruce Wayne, Batman isn't needed anymore and the woman he thinks was going to settle down with him is gone...and he feels partly responsible for her death.

This doesn't make him an emo wimp so much as a man with nowhere to go. That's where the whole secret death wish thing comes in. Man, I really felt for Bruce at the beginning of this film. That first shot where you see him emerge from the shadows with the cane with the cue from the beginning of Batman Begins playing was just heartbreaking and shocking. (What's really cool about that is how that BB cue was developed into the "a Dark Knight" theme from TDK...felt so appropriate for Bruce's first appearance in TDKR)

 

[Anita18]

That's what I mean. I think he'll use his resources and armour but he want just be Batman. He wont just simply take the mantle and do the same stuff.

We didn't even see if Bruce left him the remaining suit. I think it's safe to say that Bruce left him with the tech, not necessarily the Batman weapons and suit.

 

[shauner111]

A load of people dressed up as Batman in TDK and Bruce's reaction was that he didn't mean to inspire that, the point was that Batman could be anybody but not anybody could be Batman. All it takes is one person to step up.
There are many things Blake could do he could do ANYTHING the thing Nolan wanted to show was that he decided to do something.

I've been arguing this point since July. The outcome is left to the imagination which Nolan loves to do with his movies, while still closing Bruce's story. "Robin" doesn't have to become the Batman necessarily.

Yet all points to Blake being a future Batman. It just won't be the same as Bruce's. Think like when Dick Grayson became Batman on the comics. He was a different Batman, or Terry McGinnis in the DCAU.

If he's Batman, he'll be extremely different. You're right, it could be a Batman that is reaaaaaally different. Doesn't have to follow Bale's, or the Beyond bats, or the classic comic bats, Burton bats, etc. Could be something we've never seen. Allllll imagination.

We didn't even see if Bruce left him the remaining suit. I think it's safe to say that Bruce left him with the tech, not necessarily the Batman weapons and suit.

That's what i like to believe. Just the computers with a few gadgets MAYBE. That way he has the choice to give it to the police or become a new version of Batman. That choice is probably Bruce's intention since he couldn't predict Blake would leave the force. But because of what the narrative sets up, it's pretty certain that Blake uses this tech so he can use it himself and become Nightwing/Batman.

Making his own different suit, cowl or whatever. With the help of Lucius perhaps. But something very different. I don't think the suit/cape/cowl is waiting for him in the cave. Bruce usually has his tech up there and that's it.

 

[herolee10]

I wouldn't have minded seeing the concept of "Sons of Batman" as shown in the "Dark Knight Returns part 1" having been present at the end of the film, where more people were emerging to really support Batman's legacy and actions towards wanting to help the city and free it from corruption once and for all; this would have been especially great to establish prior to the street fight between the GCPD and Bane's mercenaries.

 

[Brother Jack]

"Anyone could be Batman."

Bruce Wayne created a symbol and that symbol has to continue; the symbol of The Batman. To say Blake could just use the gadgets is really tossing away what Bruce created in the first place.

Actually the quote is "Batman could be anyone" and not the other way around. It seems insignificant but it makes all the difference. Batman is about (among other things) the anonymity of being more than just a man, which when taken to it's logical conclusion means he's more than even Bruce himself. It's not that anyone could be Batman because not everyone is going to have the arsenal or training or the sheer will it takes to be Batman. It means that Batman doesn't necessarily have to be Bruce Wayne.

 

[Tequilla]

But Bruce's professional life at W.E. was never a big part of his life was it. He generally left the running of his company to Lucius. He would be asleep at board meetings, or playing up the playboy image to Gotham.

I don't know if he poured himself more into W.E. after he gave up being Batman. The script doesn't say. It just says he lost his money on a project he decided to can because it was too dangerous.



It had nothing to do with an emotional connection though. The energy project was deemed too dangerous and that's why he moth balled it. Any emotional connections are to do with a the normal life Alfred wants him to have by moving on and finding someone. I don't see how that pertains to a failed business investment.



Megalomania is a psycho-pathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of power, relevance, or omnipotence. Unless TDKR stated otherwise, Bruce didn't want to do the clean energy project for any of those reasons. It was a humanitarian venture to help people. On the contrary he shelved it because of the dangerous implications of it. The world not being ready for it as he put it.

A megalomaniac wouldn't have such values or inhibitions about such a great power.

Never a big part ? He dedicated completely for that project. That's the only thing we know he did. Its a huge part of his life in that moment. I still dont understand what you disagree , i never said Bruce tried to establish an emotional life , Alfred completely addresses that telling him he didn't even tried.

(also the sleeping is a consequence of him being Batman. Just like the playboy persona. He showed clearly in TDK how to take advantage of his position being Bruce Wayne)

The biggest issue is how Bruce Wayne , "the humanitarian" , also sees himself as a failure.

Exiling himself is the response of a man who cant seem do to anything. As Batman his role became irrelevant. As a philanthropist he didn't achieved his goals. As a simple man , he's not even ready to have a new life . This is the state of Bruce Wayne in the beginning the story , and Rises is nothing but the story of him picking himself up.

(those script passages are crystal clear...but i have already read here that the director didnt understand the movie ...so yeah)

 

[Micromind]

Never a big part ? He dedicated completely for that project. That's the only thing we know he did. Its a huge part of his life in that moment. I still dont understand what you disagree , i never said Bruce tried to establish an emotional life , Alfred completely addresses that telling him he didn't even tried.

(also the sleeping is a consequence of him being Batman. Just like the playboy persona. He showed clearly in TDK how to take advantage of his position being Bruce Wayne)

The biggest issue is how Bruce Wayne , "the humanitarian" , also sees himself as a failure.

Exiling himself is the response of a man who cant seem do to anything. As Batman his role became irrelevant. As a philanthropist he didn't achieved his goals. As a simple man , he's not even ready to have a new life . This is the state of Bruce Wayne in the beginning the story , and Rises is nothing but the story of him picking himself up.

(those script passages are crystal clear...but i have already read here that the director didnt understand the movie ...so yeah)

Agreed.

Bruce Wayne became a recluse after he thought that he had failed on multiple endeavors.

 

[TheBat812]

Actually the quote is "Batman could be anyone" and not the other way around. It seems insignificant but it makes all the difference. Batman is about (among other things) the anonymity of being more than just a man, which when taken to it's logical conclusion means he's more than even Bruce himself. It's not that anyone could be Batman because not everyone is going to have the arsenal or training or the sheer will it takes to be Batman. It means that Batman doesn't necessarily have to be Bruce Wayne.

IMO, he means the symbol of hope could be anyone, not that anybody can go fight crime. He's saying that as long as those who have the power to do good fight for it, there will always be hope and belief in the system. The movies have always been about allowing the justice system to be free of corruption and be an instrument of positive and just change for the people of Gotham, so they no longer live in fear of it. That is why the Dent Act taking away civil liberties is incredibly important, and such a betrayal of what Bruce and Gotham had originally intended. This is why they use the police as the army of 'good', not the citizens.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Actually the quote is "Batman could be anyone" and not the other way around. It seems insignificant but it makes all the difference. Batman is about (among other things) the anonymity of being more than just a man, which when taken to it's logical conclusion means he's more than even Bruce himself. It's not that anyone could be Batman because not everyone is going to have the arsenal or training or the sheer will it takes to be Batman. It means that Batman doesn't necessarily have to be Bruce Wayne.

I know what he said, just made a mistake when I typed my reply. I'll give you a gold star for correcting me though.

 

[Alex Logan]

Actually the quote is "Batman could be anyone" and not the other way around. It seems insignificant but it makes all the difference. Batman is about (among other things) the anonymity of being more than just a man, which when taken to it's logical conclusion means he's more than even Bruce himself. It's not that anyone could be Batman because not everyone is going to have the arsenal or training or the sheer will it takes to be Batman. It means that Batman doesn't necessarily have to be Bruce Wayne.

Exactly.

 

[Micromind]

TDK was technically Nolan's best made movie out of the Bat trilogy, but after it ended I was not really looking forward to the sequel, I thought that if he continues the same style, then he has lost focus on the Hero of the trilogy, TDK also was less emotional than Batman Begins, it was almost as if a different director had made it.

So, I was completely surprised by TDKR, I was not really prepared for this take on Bruce Wayne as I expected something in in line with TDK.

In the end, each movie stands on its own, each looks and feels different and that is, in a way the strength of this trilogy.

 

[Just_Human]

Actually the quote is "Batman could be anyone" and not the other way around. It seems insignificant but it makes all the difference. Batman is about (among other things) the anonymity of being more than just a man, which when taken to it's logical conclusion means he's more than even Bruce himself. It's not that anyone could be Batman because not everyone is going to have the arsenal or training or the sheer will it takes to be Batman. It means that Batman doesn't necessarily have to be Bruce Wayne.

 

[Alex Logan]

This is how I feel 80% of the time I check out a thread here nowadays.

Same here.

It's a shame too. They'll be like one page of good conversation, followed by seven of pointless arguments over the most obscure aspects imaginable.

Then when you point that out everyone goes "humph, you're just angry because I disagree with you!" No, I'm angry because its dumb topic regardless.

Very true.

 

[Dragon_316ca]

Jett interviews Chris Corbould on TDK trilogy: http://www.batman-on-film.com/TDKRises_interview_ChrisCorbould_11-7-12.html

 

[Ramsay Snow]

Oh cool, so Chris Corbould wanted the Batboat?

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Great interview! Not sure if a batboat would've fit into the film that well.

 

[shauner111]

Maybe they can use that idea for the reboot. Establish the new batmobile first then go for the batboat in a sequel.

 

[Anno_Domini]

The Batboat? Lol.

I was never a fan of it myself.

 

[shauner111]

I'm also not the biggest fan but they can design something different.

 

[The Guard]

It would have been a good way to explain how he got back into Gotham.

Deep underwater, in his fancy new batboat/batsub.

Ah well.

 

[BatLobster]

Maybe the Bat had an eject pod/sub ala Batman Forever, heh. It's not like we knew the Tumbler had a motorbike eject pod prior to TDK

 

[The Guard]

Or was, itself, submersible.

The comics featured a Batplane that could turn into a Batsub when it was first redesigned.

 

[Anno_Domini]

It would have been a good way to explain how he got back into Gotham.

Deep underwater, in his fancy new batboat/batsub.

Ah well.

Which would lead to complaints on how exactly Bruce got hold of his Batboat/Batsub from where he was to get to Gotham.

 

[The Guard]

I would imagine that there would be a bit with Fox explaining the existence of such a craft if they included it in the film.