The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - Part 141

[HighFivingMF]

And yeah, Bale won't be back as Wayne for JL, and having JGL as a rebooted Bruce Wayne is beyond stupid. Also, Batman = Bruce Wayne for like, 99.9% of the movie-watching population. It's better just to reboot the entire Batman storyline.

And Bruce Wayne passed the mantle on in the highest grossing Batman movie. I really don't see it being a problem.

And Freeze and such things can show up along with the new tone fitting in with Superman and Wonder Woman, think of Iron Man. Look at it in the context of only the first movie, did you see any hints that Thunder Gods, Super Soldiers, and Gamma Giants would exist? No, until they did. It's not a problem either.

The only real problem is that some fans might be upset that it isn't Bruce Wayne. Blake taking over was set up fine for the normal folks.

 

[Robin91939]

Again, I think that the fan community at large would be much more accepting of this move had John Blake's legal name been revealed to be "Richard/Dick Grayson" in The Dark Knight Rises.

There would be a precedent for Dick being Batman in the comics...

Non-fans would be more accepting of a familiar name behind the cowl and not a character created simply for the film-universe...

And as in the comics, Bruce Wayne is alive and could always return and relieve Dick of his duty as Batman in a future Justice League film...This would make a sequel a HUGE event where the "true" Dark Knight would finally appear along side Superman.

-R

 

[HighFivingMF]

Non-Fans don't know the name Dick Grayson. They know Robin, which is Blake's name.

 

[kvz5]

Bruce Wayne is alive and could always return and relieve Dick of his duty as Batman in a future Justice League film...This would make a sequel a HUGE event where the "true" Dark Knight would finally appear along side Superman.

-R

That would be a great cliffhanger/tease at the end of the first JL movie. Too bad it most likely has a 0.0000001% chance of happening.

I still think starting fresh is the way to go. They finally have the chance to reboot so they should take it.

 

[Robin91939]

Non-Fans don't know the name Dick Grayson. They know Robin, which is Blake's name.

You're really not giving non-fans any credit. People know the name Dick Grayson.

More people know the name Dick Grayson than:

Hal Jordan
Wally West
Barry Allen
Diana Prince
Oliver Queen

More people knew the name Dick Grayson than they knew: Tony Stark or Bruce Banner even 6 years ago...

Dick Grayson is a name that is up there with Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, and Peter Parker.

This is a character who has been around since 1940. He's been in television shows, cartoons, movies and comics for the last 72 years.

People know the name Dick Grayson.

Maybe not as many people as those who know Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, or Peter Parker, (and now) Tony Stark or Bruce Banner... But I would say Dick Grayson is a name that is in the pantheon of the "secret identities."

The names (before 2008) that were almost universally known by non-comic fans were: Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Peter Parker, Dick Grayson and MAYBE Mary-Jane Watson.



-R

 

[ThePhantasm]

I knew the name Dick Grayson when I was a little kid, just from BTAS

 

[venus_ice]

Again, I think that the fan community at large would be much more accepting of this move had John Blake's legal name been revealed to be "Richard/Dick Grayson" in The Dark Knight Rises.

There would be a precedent for Dick being Batman in the comics...

Non-fans would be more accepting of a familiar name behind the cowl and not a character created simply for the film-universe...

And as in the comics, Bruce Wayne is alive and could always return and relieve Dick of his duty as Batman in a future Justice League film...This would make a sequel a HUGE event where the "true" Dark Knight would finally appear along side Superman.

-R

If only. I don't trust WB at all to do this right though.

 

[CrypticOne]

So John Blake's legal name is Robin Blake?

 

[Kane52630]

Robin John Blake

 

[Robin91939]

We don't really have a clear answer as to what his true "legal" name was.

All we know is that "Robin" was a part of it. It could have been "Robin John Blake," "John Robin Blake," "Robin Blake," or something else entirely...

If they want to appease some fans, comic fans especially...

They can reveal that his foster parents surname was Blake. Wanting to start anew, he changed his first name, to honor his slain father, John.

If he is to appear in another film, it would be great to find out that his real, legal, full name was:

Robin Richard Grayson.

Do that -- and I will jump right on board with this idea, and others will follow.

-R

 

[shauner111]

You're really not giving non-fans any credit. People know the name Dick Grayson.

More people know the name Dick Grayson than:

Hal Jordan
Wally West
Barry Allen
Diana Prince
Oliver Queen

More people knew the name Dick Grayson than they knew: Tony Stark or Bruce Banner even 6 years ago...

Dick Grayson is a name that is up there with Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, and Peter Parker.

This is a character who has been around since 1940. He's been in television shows, cartoons, movies and comics for the last 72 years.

People know the name Dick Grayson.

Maybe not as many people as those who know Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, or Peter Parker, (and now) Tony Stark or Bruce Banner... But I would say Dick Grayson is a name that is in the pantheon of the "secret identities."

The names (before 2008) that were almost universally known by non-comic fans were: Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, Lois Lane, Peter Parker, Dick Grayson and MAYBE Mary-Jane Watson.



-R

People don't know the name Dick Grayson. Only fans. I have a family who watched the Adam West series back in the day, eventually saw the Burton and Shumacher movies. And now (more my mother) has seen the Nolan trilogy. They are general fans or not even fans at all most of the time. They just happen to catch these movies over the years. They still dont know the name Dick Grayson.

The general audience is made up of people who either don't usually like Batman or the genre OR they're general fans. Meaning they know Joker, Catwoman, Riddler, Penguin by name because of the media. Most of them dont know "Harvey Dent", "Jim Gordon", "Dick Grayson". They just know Robin.

 

[Frodo]

If they want , they can even put Bale back in the batsuit , they make up some excuse about it (like the thor one . I saw a guy flying and i had to meet him....Bam) . I dont think that sort of movie requires much thought (that's why Nolan's Batman are so different from typical c-grade genre superhero stories that no one takes seriously).

I agree. I really wouldn't see a problem with Bale coming back, except for those who are die hard Nolan fans who want his ending of TDKR to remain the status quo for that universe. The general audience however won't have a cow if Bale returns to the role, and his return isn't so far fetched that it would seem inconsistent.

If you can have the guy recover from a broken back by being punched in the back , and have him escape the radius of nuc explosion, the guy can return as Batman to fight in outer space with Superman.

 

[Robin91939]

People don't know the name Dick Grayson. Only fans. I have a family who watched the Adam West series back in the day, eventually saw the Burton and Shumacher movies. And now (more my mother) has seen the Nolan trilogy. They are general fans or not even fans at all most of the time. They just happen to catch these movies over the years. They still dont know the name Dick Grayson.

The general audience is made up of people who either don't usually like Batman or the genre OR they're general fans. Meaning they know Joker, Catwoman, Riddler, Penguin by name because of the media. Most of them dont know "Harvey Dent", "Jim Gordon", "Dick Grayson". They just know Robin.

First, you should probably broaden your sample size from just your family...

Second -- I'm not arguing that Dick Grayson is more well known than Robin... That would be insane. Just the same, Bruce Wayne is not more well known than Batman.

But as far as secret identities go -- "Dick Grayson" is one of the more well known ones... easily in the top 5 (along with Wayne, Kent, Parker and now Stark). Dick Grayson is a name with some brand equity. To deny that is simply ignorant.

-R

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Well this looks like at this point, this rumor may be more of a reality. I see a lot of people upset over this, but it may be time to prepare to accept it. Personally I'm 50/50 if it was JGL taking up the mantle in another film in Nolan's world thats one thing, but this sounds to be a completely different universe.

 

[shauner111]

First, you should probably broaden your sample size from just your family...

Second -- I'm not arguing that Dick Grayson is more well known than Robin... That would be insane. Just the same, Bruce Wayne is not more well known than Batman.

But as far as secret identities go -- "Dick Grayson" is one of the more well known ones... easily in the top 5 (along with Wayne, Kent, Parker and now Stark). Dick Grayson is a name with some brand equity. To deny that is simply ignorant.

-R

I have, and ive gone through many experiences where nobody knows the name Dick Grayson. I dont think it's even close to being on par with Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, Peter Parker. Even Tony Stark is something i hear in other mediums like hip-hop since the 90s. 8Diagrams(Wu) knows what im talking about. But i never hear Dick Grayson anywhere. From my experiences people only know Robin.

 

[Brother Jack]

Again, I think that the fan community at large would be much more accepting of this move had John Blake's legal name been revealed to be "Richard/Dick Grayson" in The Dark Knight Rises.

The problem with that is that Blake wasn't meant to be a stand-in for Dick Grayson. There are too many differences in character, namely the absence of him being a circus performer. The reason why Blake's name is literally Robin is because he is meant to be an amalgamation of many different Robins including Grayson, evidenced by his upbringing as an orphan and his career as a cop. But Blake is the personification of the idea of Batman's successor, not one single iteration of it.

Him being Batman in JL doesn't work simply because the Nolan universe and the JL universe are not compatible.

 

[Anno_Domini]

We don't really have a clear answer as to what his true "legal" name was.

All we know is that "Robin" was a part of it. It could have been "Robin John Blake," "John Robin Blake," "Robin Blake," or something else entirely...

If they want to appease some fans, comic fans especially...

They can reveal that his foster parents surname was Blake. Wanting to start anew, he changed his first name, to honor his slain father, John.

If he is to appear in another film, it would be great to find out that his real, legal, full name was:

Robin Richard Grayson.

Do that -- and I will jump right on board with this idea, and others will follow.

-R

If he changed his name legally to John, then he wouldn't have an ID card to suggest his real name is Robin, or even have Robin be used to pick up any item from a will. Bruce would have used John, that is if he changed his first name legally. But changing his name just as John for the heck of it won't do any good as well because his actual first name would still be used through his tax records and et cetera. So again, this won't do anything.

One CAN use their middle name as their 'nickname' as well and that could be why he uses John so many times, but why we never hear that name being used by Gordon or Foley. John Blake is the name he goes by, by his actual first name is Robin. Robin John Blake.

Wanting his name to be Robin Richard Grayson is just something some fans want to see, but it's not going to happen, lol. If that was his legal name, that that's what his name would've been all along. Giving his real first name as Robin doesn't take anything away from his last name being Blake, otherwise, he's using a fake name and I won't understand why someone using a false identity is in the GCPD.

 

[shauner111]

The problem with that is that Blake wasn't meant to be a stand-in for Dick Grayson. There are too many differences in character, namely the absence of him being a circus performer. The reason why Blake's name is literally Robin is because he is meant to be an amalgamation of many different Robins including Grayson, evidenced by his upbringing as an orphan and his career as a cop. But Blake is the personification of the idea of Batman's successor, not one single iteration of it.

Him being Batman in JL doesn't work simply because the Nolan universe and the JL universe are not compatible.

Exactly. He has elements of Grayson, Todd and Drake...it doesn't mean he's some stand-in for Grayson simply because Nolan doesn't like the name or something. There's no Robin-esque cape, suit, domino mask. He's not in a suit next to Batman. He doesn't have the circus origin or the name. Why the hell should he have been Grayson then??

He's an orphan, he's a detective, he's a friend of Bruce's, he's his successor, he's a hothead according to authority (LOL!), he has deduced Batmans identity...he is an amalgamation but he's no stand-in for a single version of Robin. It's a nod.

Not compatible to JL? Fair enough. It seems that way, but we also haven't read the script or for MOS for that matter. We dont know what they're willing to add onto the Nolan-verse either at this point.

If he changed his name legally to John, then he wouldn't have an ID card to suggest his real name is Robin, or even have Robin be used to pick up any item from a will. Bruce would have used John, that is if he changed his first name legally. But changing his name just as John for the heck of it won't do any good as well because his actual first name would still be used through his tax records and et cetera. So again, this won't do anything.

One CAN use their middle name as their 'nickname' as well and that could be why he uses John so many times, but why we never hear that name being used by Gordon or Foley. John Blake is the name he goes by, by his actual first name is Robin. Robin John Blake.

Wanting his name to be Robin Richard Grayson is just something some fans want to see, but it's not going to happen, lol. If that was his legal name, that that's what his name would've been all along. Giving his real first name as Robin doesn't take anything away from his last name being Blake, otherwise, he's using a fake name and I won't understand why someone using a false identity is in the GCPD.

His legal name is definately Robin Blake. John may or may not be a middle-name. Could be a nickname. Im trying to remember which points the name "John" was uttered in the movie. If you can help me with that.

But they can twist it around if the filmmaker wants to. Look at one of the great fan-art/manips on this site. They made him a Grayson at birth who was given the name Blake because he was under witness protection, since his father was murdered by the mob. They could say he was born Richard John Grayson (John Grayson is the father). The orphanage/foster parents or whoever changed his name to Robin Blake but he still wanted to keep his middle name because it honored his fathers memory. He used the name John to honor that memory and because it was more masculin for a cop.

You can twist it around. But he is Robin John Blake.

 

[BlueLightning]

Wow! Things have been busy the last hours.

As for Blake being Batman, I don't have a problem. I view him in a Terry McGinnis sort of way. BUT, Blake as Batman in a JL movie. Please no!

At the moment I just have high hopes for Man of Steel. Keep your Justice League film in a nice drawer until you have a very good idea to make it work. In fact, there are a lot of other properties that are literally dying to get film treatment. Wonder Woman, Flash... even Aquaman, but please if you are gonna make JL make it right.

Are you hearing Warner Bros.? ARE YOU?

*Ends Rant. Flies Away*

 

[ThePhantasm]

*Ends Rant. Flies Away*

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

If anything I wanted MOS to be standalone, if JGL is in the film it will somewhat disappoint me.

 

[Anno_Domini]

His legal name is definately Robin Blake. John may or may not be a middle-name. Could be a nickname. Im trying to remember which points the name "John" was uttered in the movie. If you can help me with that.

But they can twist it around if the filmmaker wants to. Look at one of the great fan-art/manips on this site. They made him a Grayson at birth who was given the name Blake because he was under witness protection, since his father was murdered by the mob. They could say he was born Richard John Grayson (John Grayson is the father). The orphanage/foster parents or whoever changed his name to Robin Blake but he still wanted to keep his middle name because it honored his fathers memory. He used the name John to honor that memory and because it was more masculin for a cop.

You can twist it around. But he is Robin John Blake.

I think Blake mentioned his name being John to Wayne(haha...John Wayne...) if I can recall....I saw TDKR last weekend, but I've been through so much with trying to put up Christmas ****, I totally lost track...that can be quite hectic, haha.

Although, yah, sure, I can buy his name being Robin Richard Grayson if he then had to change his name legally, but what would be the point of the name RRG being used? Or better yet, why would his first name still be Robin if he was meant to change his entire name? It just doesn't really add up.

 

[Anno_Domini]

If anything I wanted MOS to be standalone, if JGL is in the film it will somewhat disappoint me.

I too wanted a standalone trilogy for Man of Steel. The Justice League stuff may very well suck, so I at least wanted complete trilogies of Batman and Superman, since I'll never get one of my third favorite DC character(Doctor Fate).

 

[shauner111]

I think Blake mentioned his name being John to Wayne(haha...John Wayne...) if I can recall....I saw TDKR last weekend, but I've been through so much with trying to put up Christmas ****, I totally lost track...that can be quite hectic, haha.

Although, yah, sure, I can buy his name being Robin Richard Grayson if he then had to change his name legally, but what would be the point of the name RRG being used? Or better yet, why would his first name still be Robin if he was meant to change his entire name? It just doesn't really add up.

lol no worries.

John and Mary Grayson have a child by the name of Richard John Grayson. Mary is involved in a car accident. John is murdered. Richard John Grayson is legally changed to Robin John Blake.

Another similar way would be...

John and Mary Grayson have a child by the name of Richard Grayson (no mention of a middle-name). His name is eventually changed to Robin Blake but he uses "John" as a nickname to honor his fathers memory.

It would be easy to pull off.

 

[Llama_Shepherd]

The MOS trilogy can still be standalone though.