The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - Part 141

[Tequilla]

I just hope JGL is the new Batman, Bale is the new Superman, Caine is the new Flash, Freeman is the new Green Lantern, Hathaway as the new Wonder Woman, and Hardy is the new Aquaman. With Zimmer doing the score, the Nolan Bros doing the script, and Nolan directing, filmed all in IMAX.

That would be so innovative.....

Yeah , because what's being made in the superhero genre right now is....innovative !

 

[Dragon_316ca]

http://filmcomment.com/article/cinematic-faith-christopher-nolan-scott-foundas

Transcript from last night's screening of Following. Nolan talks a lot about his Batman trilogy.

 

[Anno_Domini]

He’s a symbol, and the symbol lives on.

The very last sentence by Nolan gave me goosebumps, lol.

 

[Reek]

http://filmcomment.com/article/cinematic-faith-christopher-nolan-scott-foundas

Transcript from last night's screening of Following. Nolan talks a lot about his Batman trilogy.

thanks for posting... awesome read.

 

[kvz5]

Thanks for posting! Interesting read.

For me, The Dark Knight Rises is specifically and definitely the end of the Batman story as I wanted to tell it, and the open-ended nature of the film is simply a very important thematic idea that we wanted to get into the movie, which is that Batman is a symbol. He can be anybody, and that was very important to us. Not every Batman fan will necessarily agree with that interpretation of the philosophy of the character, but for me it all comes back to the scene between Bruce Wayne and Alfred in the private jet in Batman Begins, where the only way that I could find to make a credible characterization of a guy transforming himself into Batman is if it was as a necessary symbol, and he saw himself as a catalyst for change and therefore it was a temporary process, maybe a five-year plan that would be enforced for symbolically encouraging the good of Gotham to take back their city. To me, for that mission to succeed, it has to end, so this is the ending for me, and as I say, the open-ended elements are all to do with the thematic idea that Batman was not important as a man, he’s more than that. He’s a symbol, and the symbol lives on.

This is the first time he talked about his take on the ending, right?

 

[ThePhantasm]

I definitely disagree with Nolan's philosophy of Batman there, but I'm grateful to him for the three great films we were given.

 

[Reek]

what bugs me... isnt the bat symbol....symbol enough!

did not need to show blake at all when the statue and the bat symbol serve the same purpose

 

[kvz5]

did not need to show blake at all when the statue and the bat symbol serve the same purpose

Agreed. I would've been perfectly fine if the last shot was Gordon looking at the fixed Batsignal (and maybe even flashing it to the sky with the Gothamites looking at it) or the unveiling of the Bat statue. That would've been more effective IMO.

 

[antovolk]

Some photos from the newly updated Second Screen iPad app -

Spoiler

 

[antovolk]

edit: double post

 

[Reek]

Agreed. I would've been perfectly fine if the last shot was Gordon looking at the fixed Batsignal (and maybe even flashing it to the sky with the Gothamites looking at it) or the unveiling of the Bat statue. That would've been more effective IMO.

turning on the symbol... showing the citizens of gotham looking at it in awe...showing the symbol in the night sky... fade to black... TDKR... boom done...

 

[Anno_Domini]

This is the first time he talked about his take on the ending, right?

I don't believe so. He's talked about how the trilogy will come to an end and spoke about Batman being a symbol many times before.

I definitely disagree with Nolan's philosophy of Batman there, but I'm grateful to him for the three great films we were given.

There's some thing about his philosophy that holds true though. Batman is a character in the comics, but whenever someone sees that Bat symbol...they know what it means, so in a way, Nolan wanted to tell the story of that symbol and what it means and stands for.

what bugs me... isnt the bat symbol....symbol enough!

did not need to show blake at all when the statue and the bat symbol serve the same purpose

I think it goes back to Bruce saying anyone can be Batman though with Blake finding the Batcave. There's these different meanings of symbolism, such as the Bat symbol itself and the fact that anyone can be Batman and it's no longer Bruce's role.

 

[Anno_Domini]

 

[Reek]

I don't believe so. He's talked about how the trilogy will come to an end and spoke about Batman being a symbol many times before.



There's some thing about his philosophy that holds true though. Batman is a character in the comics, but whenever someone sees that Bat symbol...they know what it means, so in a way, Nolan wanted to tell the story of that symbol and what it means and stands for.



I think it goes back to Bruce saying anyone can be Batman though with Blake finding the Batcave. There's these different meanings of symbolism, such as the Bat symbol itself and the fact that anyone can be Batman and it's no longer Bruce's role.

But Nolan said 'This is the end of batman's story'. if anyone can be batman then how is the story over given that ending. We didn't need John Blake to teach us Batman is symbolic. The bat symbol and statue are more than enough to show that.

on top of that, if Blake does wear the cowl... then the point of the statue becomes... pointless.

just my opinion.

 

[shauner111]

The Dark Knight Rises leaves the door open at the end for a possible continuation of the Gotham saga, without Batman perhaps, but with these new characters like Catwoman and the young cop played by Joseph Gordon-Levitt. Do you envision revisiting Gotham?
For me, The Dark Knight Rises is specifically and definitely the end of the Batman story as I wanted to tell it, and the open-ended nature of the film is simply a very important thematic idea that we wanted to get into the movie, which is that Batman is a symbol. He can be anybody, and that was very important to us. Not every Batman fan will necessarily agree with that interpretation of the philosophy of the character, but for me it all comes back to the scene between Bruce Wayne and Alfred in the private jet in Batman Begins, where the only way that I could find to make a credible characterization of a guy transforming himself into Batman is if it was as a necessary symbol, and he saw himself as a catalyst for change and therefore it was a temporary process, maybe a five-year plan that would be enforced for symbolically encouraging the good of Gotham to take back their city. To me, for that mission to succeed, it has to end, so this is the ending for me, and as I say, the open-ended elements are all to do with the thematic idea that Batman was not important as a man, he’s more than that. He’s a symbol, and the symbol lives on.

I like how Nolan addressed that his interpretation isn't for every fan. It's definately my favorite interpretation of it though.

What i underlined is something that can mesh well with this JGL/Blake as Batman in Justice League rumor. Actually his entire response here is something for the haters to think about. Especially the ones who thought TDKR didn't follow through with the ideas presented in Begins or Dark Knight. His plan with Alfred in that plane scene was followed through in the ending of TDKR. And i dont see how it wouldnt fit to use the new Batman, the successor to the symbol, as the guy who gets involved in future stories.

Maybe you guys would rather that happen through a spin-off film and not Justice League because of the fantastical elements it presents. But WB trying to continue the story of this Batman symbol is not a far-fetched idea.

In the comics Batman IS important as a man. It's all about Bruce Wayne. But in this trilogy it was never about that. Bruce is the creator of this symbol but he's not the most important aspect. The symbol of Batman is, and how it can carry on through multiple generations. And this is why i have NO problem with Blake playing the Batman over the next couple of movies. I'm a bigger fan of the Nolan-verse than the original comic-book concept of the Justice League of America that's for sure.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I love Nolan's philosophy behind Batman being more than just a man. And in many ways, I agree. It's not necessarily about what the man stands for, but for what the symbol stands for.

Societies have long stood behind symbols and flags and what they stand for. The Batman is the same. Nolan still maintained that it takes a man to perform such good deeds, ala the comics, but he extended that with the idea that it takes a symbol for everyone to rally behind to perform those deeds.

You see it everyday, even from the simplest thing like someone wearing their favourite football team's shirt with their logo right on the front or a soldier wearing a patch their country's flag on their uniform, as a way to identify themselves with where they're from and what they stand for. The same applies to Batman.

The Batman is a man, but he is also more than just that. He's a symbol. A legend.

Thank you Christopher Nolan.

 

[kvz5]

I prefer the "a hero can be anyone" theme more than the "anyone can be Batman" one. I personally think the former is true while the latter is not.

 

[Anno_Domini]

But Nolan said 'This is the end of batman's story'. if anyone can be batman then how is the story over given that ending. We didn't need John Blake to teach us Batman is symbolic. The bat symbol and statue are more than enough to show that.

on top of that, if Blake does wear the cowl... then the point of the statue becomes... pointless.

just my opinion.

Imo, when he says the end of Batman's story, I think he's solely meaning the Batman we are all aware of, Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne as Batman did see its end in TDKR, but that doesn't mean it's pointless if Robin John Blake finds the Batcave and possibly becomes the next Batman.

I understand your opinion for sure, but those are just my two cents added to the discussion, lol. As I've said before, TDKR has become a very polarizing CBM and a film as a whole. The funny thing is that two of the most polarizing CBMs ever, TDKR and Watchmen, are two of my favorite films.

 

[shauner111]

I love Nolan's philosophy behind Batman being more than just a man. And in many ways, I agree. It's not necessarily about what the man stands for, but for what the symbol stands for.

Societies have long stood behind symbols and flags and what they stand for. The Batman is the same. Nolan still maintained that it takes a man to perform such good deeds, ala the comics, but he extended that with the idea that it takes a symbol for everyone to rally behind to perform those deeds.

You see it everyday, even from the simplest thing like someone wearing their favourite football team's shirt with their logo right on the front or a soldier wearing a patch their country's flag on their uniform, as a way to identify themselves with where they're from and what they stand for. The same applies to Batman.

The Batman is a man, but he is also more than just that. He's a symbol. A legend.

Thank you Christopher Nolan.

Batman CAN be anybody and that is the point. But the question is who has the guts to be Batman? Even if it's not in the physical but in the way of just being a citizen who stands up to crime and evil and does good. Not everybody has the guts to do this, but Blakes character did. And if you want to talk about it in the physical sense, in that universe...Blake has the access to put on the suit as well. There's different methods in standing up for what you believe in, you don't have to put on a cowl and fight criminals but it's an option in Gothams world. The message is still the same though. Everybody can carry the concept of Batman if they have the will. If they have it.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

I also prefer the notion of "A Hero Can Be Anyone", because it's absolutely true.

But I feel as if the "Batman could be anyone" comment was more about how anyone can stand for what the Batman stands for, not necessarily running around the streets beating criminals to a pulp with your bare hands.

 

[Reek]

Imo, when he says the end of Batman's story, I think he's solely meaning the Batman we are all aware of, Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne as Batman did see its end in TDKR, but that doesn't mean it's pointless if Robin John Blake finds the Batcave and possibly becomes the next Batman.

I understand your opinion for sure, but those are just my two cents added to the discussion, lol. As I've said before, TDKR has become a very polarizing CBM and a film as a whole. The funny thing is that two of the most polarizing CBMs ever, TDKR and Watchmen, are two of my favorite films.

then get rid of the damn statue!

should be a statue of bruce in the suit, holding the cowl.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Batman CAN be anybody and that is the point. But the question is who has the guts to be Batman? Even if it's not in the physical but in the way of just being a citizen who stands up to crime and evil and does good. Not everybody has the guts to do this, but Blakes character did. And if you want to talk about it in the physical sense, in that universe...Blake has the access to put on the suit as well. There's different methods in standing up for what you believe in, you don't have to put on a cowl and fight criminals but it's an option in Gothams world. The message is still the same though. Everbody can be carry the concept of Batman if they have the will. If they have it.

The training is nothing, the will is everything. That's exactly right. I sure as **** wouldn't be able to dress up like a Bat and beat up criminals, but I'm not afraid to stand up for what's right.

 

[shauner111]

then get rid of the damn statue!

should be a statue of bruce in the suit, holding the cowl.

But who Batman is, isn't the point of the ending or the trilogy. And they dont know it was Bruce. So they always look at Batman as a symbol or concept, not who the man was.

The training is nothing, the will is everything. That's exactly right. I sure as **** wouldn't be able to dress up like a Bat and beat up criminals, but I'm not afraid to stand up for what's right.

That's exactly right.

 

[Reek]

the training is nothing? thats just ... not true. sure you can stand up for whats right... but without the training... batman couldn't have done 90% of what he did lol

the training + the will = Batman

just the will =/= batman.

 

[Reek]

But who Batman is, isn't the point of the ending or the trilogy. And they dont know it was Bruce. So they always look at Batman as a symbol or concept, not who the man was.

true, i was just saying how id want it to end ...

batman was seen as a symbol before blake got on the platform/found the cave... completely unnecessary when the point was already made.