The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - Part 142

[The Joker]

When the blackgate prison was built, didn't all the prisoners from Arkham except the joker get relocated to blackgate. Thus, leaving the joker all by himself in Arkham. So, there would have been no reason for bane to go Arkham.

That's from the novelization right?

 

[Hawkeye70000000]

That's from the novelization right?

That is mine line of thinking. I recall that happening somewhere in the batman universe. I was thinking this could be used as a reasoning why the joker was not released by bane in the movie when he let the inmates free. Another part actually has him escaping Arkham and in an even crazier than before from not being able to talk to anyone or seeing the outside world etc.

 

[BlueLightning]

It is indeed from the novelization:

Blackgate Prison was a maximum-security penitentiary located on one of the smaller islands in Gotham Harbor. Now that the Dent Act had made it all but possible for the city’s criminals to cop an insanity plea, it had replaced Arkham Asylum as the preferred location for imprisoning both convicted and suspected felons. The worst of the worst were sent here, except for the Joker, who, rumor had it, was locked away as Arkham’s sole remaining inmate.

Or perhaps he had escaped. Nobody was really sure.

Not even Selina.

 

[Hawkeye70000000]

Thanks for clarifying that for me BlueLightning. I was thinking this could have used to explain joker's absence in tdkr even though Nolan decided not mention the joker in the film.

 

[BlueLightning]

Is worth noting though, that the Joker is mentioned a few times more in the novel. I have yet to read it completely.

 

[Brother Jack]

The Joker was presented in such an elemental, almost inhuman way in TDK that it works for me to have him simply vanish in that film never to be seen or heard of again. He's like a demon who abruptly appears, causes all sorts of mayhem, and just as abruptly disappears. Left unresolved because he has no beginning or end. Setting Rises eight years afterwards was a very intelligent move because it distances the story and its characters from the Joker, who would rather hold on to Harvey Dent as a martyred idol and Batman as their enemy than to remember the unknowable force that was the Joker.

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

The Joker was presented in such an elemental, almost inhuman way in TDK that it works for me to have him simply vanish in that film never to be seen or heard of again. He's like a demon who abruptly appears, causes all sorts of mayhem, and just as abruptly disappears. Left unresolved because he has no beginning or end. Setting Rises eight years afterwards was a very intelligent move because it distances the story and its characters from the Joker, who would rather hold on to Harvey Dent as a martyred idol and Batman as their enemy than to remember the unknowable force that was the Joker.

Yeah. Had the gap between the 2 films been smaller, then it'd be awkward to not have him be mentioned.

 

[The Joker]

It is indeed from the novelization:

Thanks. I knew it sounded familiar.

Yeah. Had the gap between the 2 films been smaller, then it'd be awkward to have him be mentioned.

No time gap would have made a mention of him awkward if his actions from TDK were relevant to the story. Batman had not been sighted in 8 years either, but he was mentioned by the Mayor, Blake, and some orphan before he showed up again. Lets not pretend it was done because it was the best way to do it from a narrative perspective. For instance listening to Blake recite the events of the night Dent died, you can practically hear the script tip toeing around the major Joker events of that night.

It was done for out of respect for Heath. That's all.

 

[TheDarkKnight08]

No time gap would have made a mention of him awkward if his actions from TDK were relevant to the story. Batman had not been sighted in 8 years either, but he was mentioned by the Mayor, Blake, and some orphan before he showed up again. Lets not pretend it was done because it was the best way to do it from a narrative perspective. For instance listening to Blake recite the events of the night Dent died, you can practically hear the script tip toeing around the major Joker events of that night.

It was done for out of respect for Heath. That's all.

Wait, stop, sorry. I wrote that wrong. I meant, had the timeframe been less, it would've been awkward to NOT mention him. My bad.

 

[BatLobster]

I think having The Joker taken out of the equation for the third film could very well be one of the many reasons behind advancing the story forward 8 years. It would have definitely been more awkward not to mention him at all if the movie only took place a few months after TDK. No mention of the LOS in TDK was fine I think, because Gotham didn't really seem to know who was truly behind the attack, since it all got pinned on Crane.

I really wish the Narrows had been revisited or mentioned at some point in TDK or TDKR though. If we're to take Gotham Knight as canon (I know it's not really), the Narrows is kind of a taste for things to come for Gotham as it becomes it's own mini shut-off No Man's Land.

 

[TDK elbowstrike]

Very true. I never even realized the Narrows was never mentioned again.

I like the version of Jokers fate in the novelization. Very ambiguous, much like his origin in TDK.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

Ok I just had my long-planned trilogy viewing.

Despite the numerous interruptions and horrible notifications I've received, I can safely say that this is the greatest comic book trilogy, one of the greatest film trilogies and my personal favourite trilogy of all time.

Thank you Christopher Nolan and the entire Cast & Crew of The Dark Knight Trilogy.

 

[Uroboric Forms]

Don't forget how demonised Batman was. You aren't going to hear 'he took down two swat teams, breaks Dent's neck and takes down the Joker in a nonlethal way too, so I guess he's not that bad' it always came across to me as Blake buying into the story and then having doubts when Gordon seems to look back fondly.

 

[The Joker]

Actually Blake came across as not buying into the story by raising it and questioning it in the first place. Bringing up the fact that Batman took down The Joker, Gotham's worst threat at that time, and saved all of those hostages, would have made more sense considering he obviously has doubts about it.

But again we know the script was deliberately tip toeing around having to mention the Joker.

 

[BatLobster]

I like to think of The Joker as the proverbial boogie man to Gotham in TDKR. Like it's taboo to mention his name, as the city has tried to forget about him (much like Nolan thought it was a taboo to have his name appear in the script).

Just my interpretation.

 

[shauner111]

I like to think of The Joker as the proverbial boogie man to Gotham in TDKR. Like it's taboo to mention his name, as the city has tried to forget about him (much like Nolan thought it was a taboo to have his name appear in the script).

Just my interpretation.

Joker is really like the devil who appears out of thin air on that street corner before the bank heist. No name, no alias, no fingerprints (i just said that out loud like batman btw..FINGAAPRRINNNNTSS!), no dental records. I mean it's creepy. He gets locked up and then it's as if he vanished out of thin air when they take Arkhams patients and move them to Blackgate. The thought of them doing this but leaving Joker in Arkham alone...returning to the Asylum to find out that Joker is somehow gone as well. Very creepy indeed.

And that's a good interpretation. That 'Joker' as a name would be like taboo around Gotham. He caused so much crap, now that the city is doing well, it's almost like they're crossing their fingers as each year passes so i could buy into it. Plus TDKR wasn't a year or two after the events of Joker/Two-Face. 8 years is a long time. The Dent Act is a constant reminder and why Harveys name is brought up. The Batman killed him and he was around a little longer than everyone else. This is somebody who shocked the city with his appearances and people started to like him at some point then it's as if he betrayed them when he killed Dent and a bunch of cops. 8 years later there's probably still a mixed response especially since he dissapeared, there's no closure. And mixed responses causes discussion a lot more than just a psychopath who ended up being locked away forever.

That's why it never bothered me that they wouldnt mention Jokers name 8 years later. Even if it would have been cool.

 

[BatLobster]

Joker is really like the devil who appears out of thin air on that street corner before the bank heist. No name, no alias, no fingerprints (i just said that out loud like batman btw..FINGAAPRRINNNNTSS!), no dental records. I mean it's creepy. He gets locked up and then it's as if he vanished out of thin air when they take Arkhams patients and move them to Blackgate. The thought of them doing this but leaving Joker in Arkham alone...returning to the Asylum to find out that Joker is somehow gone as well. Very creepy indeed.

And that's a good interpretation. That 'Joker' as a name would be like taboo around Gotham. He caused so much crap, now that the city is doing well, it's almost like they're crossing their fingers as each year passes so i could buy into it. Plus TDKR wasn't a year or two after the events of Joker/Two-Face. 8 years is a long time. The Dent Act is a constant reminder and why Harveys name is brought up. The Batman killed him and he was around a little longer than everyone else. This is somebody who shocked the city with his appearances and people started to like him at some point then it's as if he betrayed them when he killed Dent and a bunch of cops. 8 years later there's probably still a mixed response especially since he dissapeared, there's no closure. And mixed responses causes discussion a lot more than just a psychopath who ended up being locked away forever.

That's why it never bothered me that they wouldnt mention Jokers name 8 years later. Even if it would have been cool.

Nice post, I definitley go for that interpretation. I'm not sure if you listened to the Jonah Nolan interview with that Screenwriting magazine about TDK, but that he even said that he likes to imagine that The Joker just appeared out of thin air on that street corner.

He really was Satan incarnate. Even the way Ledger used his tongue in his performance was so serpent-like.

 

[TheGuy]

Joker is really like the devil who appears out of thin air on that street corner before the bank heist. No name, no alias, no fingerprints (i just said that out loud like batman btw..FINGAAPRRINNNNTSS!), no dental records. I mean it's creepy. He gets locked up and then it's as if he vanished out of thin air when they take Arkhams patients and move them to Blackgate. The thought of them doing this but leaving Joker in Arkham alone...returning to the Asylum to find out that Joker is somehow gone as well. Very creepy indeed.

And that's a good interpretation. That 'Joker' as a name would be like taboo around Gotham. He caused so much crap, now that the city is doing well, it's almost like they're crossing their fingers as each year passes so i could buy into it. Plus TDKR wasn't a year or two after the events of Joker/Two-Face. 8 years is a long time. The Dent Act is a constant reminder and why Harveys name is brought up. The Batman killed him and he was around a little longer than everyone else. This is somebody who shocked the city with his appearances and people started to like him at some point then it's as if he betrayed them when he killed Dent and a bunch of cops. 8 years later there's probably still a mixed response especially since he dissapeared, there's no closure. And mixed responses causes discussion a lot more than just a psychopath who ended up being locked away forever.

That's why it never bothered me that they wouldnt mention Jokers name 8 years later. Even if it would have been cool.

Fantastic post. Joker's crimes and legacy is very much felt in TDKR.

 

[Hawkeye70000000]

Great post Shauner111. The dancing around the joker's action in tdk was a little hogwarts-like - 'he who must not be named', 'you know who' we are speaking of.

 

[Alex Logan]

Joker is really like the devil who appears out of thin air on that street corner before the bank heist. No name, no alias, no fingerprints (i just said that out loud like batman btw..FINGAAPRRINNNNTSS!), no dental records. I mean it's creepy. He gets locked up and then it's as if he vanished out of thin air when they take Arkhams patients and move them to Blackgate. The thought of them doing this but leaving Joker in Arkham alone...returning to the Asylum to find out that Joker is somehow gone as well. Very creepy indeed.

And that's a good interpretation. That 'Joker' as a name would be like taboo around Gotham. He caused so much crap, now that the city is doing well, it's almost like they're crossing their fingers as each year passes so i could buy into it. Plus TDKR wasn't a year or two after the events of Joker/Two-Face. 8 years is a long time. The Dent Act is a constant reminder and why Harveys name is brought up. The Batman killed him and he was around a little longer than everyone else. This is somebody who shocked the city with his appearances and people started to like him at some point then it's as if he betrayed them when he killed Dent and a bunch of cops. 8 years later there's probably still a mixed response especially since he dissapeared, there's no closure. And mixed responses causes discussion a lot more than just a psychopath who ended up being locked away forever.

That's why it never bothered me that they wouldnt mention Jokers name 8 years later. Even if it would have been cool.

Brilliant post man.

 

[Heat Vision]

Ok I just had my long-planned trilogy viewing.

Despite the numerous interruptions and horrible notifications I've received, I can safely say that this is the greatest comic book trilogy, one of the greatest film trilogies and my personal favourite trilogy of all time.

Thank you Christopher Nolan and the entire Cast & Crew of The Dark Knight Trilogy.

Just did it, and I have to agree with you: best CB trilogy by a mile, imo.

 

[CapedCrusader14]

That's a great interpretation shauner and I completely agree with you. I've always felt that The Joker was the living incarnation of pure evil, the Antichrist if you will. He's the ultimate absolute.

He actually reminds me alot of John Ryder from The Hitcher.

 

[The Joker]

The Joker was the only villain in the trilogy, besides Crane (whom I chalk up to simply being under developed), who didn't care about anyone or anything. Ra's loved his wife, Harvey loved Rachel, Bane loved Talia, Talia cared about Bane.

They all had sympathetic angles to them in some way. But not Joker. That's as it should be.

 

[Ryan]

The Joker was the only villain in the trilogy, besides Crane (whom I chalk up to simply being under developed), who didn't care about anyone or anything. Ra's loved his wife, Harvey loved Rachel, Bane loved Talia, Talia cared about Bane.

They all had sympathetic angles to them in some way. But not Joker. That's as it should be.

Exactly. Nolan really did keep Bane in the classic 'movie monster" role as he said he would by having the monster have a soft spot for a girl.

 

[BlueLightning]

The Joker was the only villain in the trilogy, besides Crane (whom I chalk up to simply being under developed), who didn't care about anyone or anything. Ra's loved his wife, Harvey loved Rachel, Bane loved Talia, Talia cared about Bane.

They all had sympathetic angles to them in some way. But not Joker. That's as it should be.

Crane cared about money at first, with the whole "ransom city" stuff. But then in TDK, he was still making money while lacing those drugs with his fear toxin, just for the kicks apparently. Also, according to himself he was experimenting with the toxin with his patients before the main events on Begins.