The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 145

[The_Raganork]

That hospital scene left me with an open mouth. I mean that was supposed to be a MOMENT right? It just flew by like ummm....it's nothing move along folks. The scene with him and Selina right after should have been cut down because Gordon and Bat's relationship had more weight.

Or at the very least...could I see Gordon shoot someone for once?

Two movies of him pointing his gun and yelling we finally get him shooting someone and it's off camera? (This is a personal peeve I don't hold it against the film as a general idea but as an aesthetic mistake)

 

[Kane52630]

You guys feel if they hadn't shot it in IMAX, it would've been a better film? I feel like the limitations they had to deal with was the only thing that hurt the film.

 

[georgec]

You guys feel if they hadn't shot it in IMAX, it would've been a better film? I feel like the limitations they had to deal with was the only thing that hurt the film.

If this was an influence on Nolan cutting down the movie, I would have loved it if he just had an intermission after Bane's stadium appearance. End part 1 when Blake is driving Gordon and all the street lights go out.

 

[shauner111]

And about the Two-Face flashbacks in the beginning?? LOVED it.

 

[The Joker]

Two movies of him pointing his gun and yelling we finally get him shooting someone and it's off camera? (This is a personal peeve I don't hold it against the film as a general idea but as an aesthetic mistake)

You have to admit that scene where he sneaks up on Joker from behind and points his gun at Joker's head, then shoves him to the ground and says "We got you, you son of a b&tch" was a bad ass Gordon moment.

He was SWAT Gordon, too lol.

 

[The_Raganork]

The flashback was absolutely necessary. That moment is one of my favorite moments of the whole trilogy. The music, the flashback, is perfect. It reminds fans of what this entire partnership is all about and it's an emotional execution. Plus general audiences, believe it or not are a much larger part of this whole thing. Fanboys and people who remember every detail from Batman Begins, we're only a tiny part of what makes up the audience. That flashback was actually needed.

It's also a memory of Gordon's in that moment. He's thinking of what Batman just said.

And yes BatLobster, that was the whole point of "Bruce Wayne?" it's like "Huh?? that rich careless idiot?"

That's not an excuse. Not everything has to be 100% clear. That's why we as audience members whether fanboys or general audience, have to PAY ATTENTION. If the script called for a better reaction to Gordon figuring it out it wouldn't have needed a flashback.

Plus people should just go watch BB. Imagine if they had done that TDK talking about the narrows showing flashbacks, or a flashback of Crane when Batman finds him in the start.

It something that if you saw the previous film you get, if you didn't...you may have to dig deeper. There's nothing wrong with that. When you interrupt the moment to show something from a movie YEARS ago for no other reason other than to remind people that it exist you've failed to write a cohesive film that goes into those kinds of things.

People should have been able to get that Gordon did that for Bruce without seeing that shot from the writing.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

You guys feel if they hadn't shot it in IMAX, it would've been a better film? I feel like the limitations they had to deal with was the only thing that hurt the film.

The IMAX photography was one of the finer things in the movie. If it didn't even have that, well, I don't want to imagine it.

 

[JackWhite]

Gordon should have had a more "Heh, it always had to be Bruce Wayne" type of reaction instead of "Bruce Wayne??!?!?"

Still an awesome moment though.

 

[The_Raganork]

You guys feel if they hadn't shot it in IMAX, it would've been a better film? I feel like the limitations they had to deal with was the only thing that hurt the film.

No...not personally. I feel like they didn't do well with the time that they already had. A lot of what's in the movie could have been better and ultimately is my main source of discontent.

What's not in it is troublesome too but there's so much of what was done that could have been better.

You have to admit that scene where he sneaks up on Joker from behind and points his gun at Joker's head, then shoves him to the ground and says "We got you, you son of a b&tch" was a bad ass Gordon moment.

He was SWAT Gordon, too lol.

Haha, Yes! Gordon in action! That's what we needed. It in part shows that Batman has someone who is going to support him and represents Gotham moving to a more progressive angle towards crime.

 

[shauner111]

If this was an influence on Nolan cutting down the movie, I would have loved it if he just had an intermission after Bane's stadium appearance. End part 1 when Blake is driving Gordon and all the street lights go out.

I have to admit. That sounds like an amazing idea. Part 2 would have had a new intro that goes into what takes place next. And then we would have had more time with Bruce in the prison, more time with Gotham and all the violent actions that probably took place when it was under lockdown. More Bane origin time.

So is it official that they shot like 20 minutes more and had to cut it down?? Or was that just script talk?

 

[Isearch4dope]

You guys feel if they hadn't shot it in IMAX, it would've been a better film? I feel like the limitations they had to deal with was the only thing that hurt the film.

Not necessarily though it would have made it a little better from the get go. For me it's just that the creativity and natural flow wasn't there and moments that needed to be spectacular didn't quite achieve much. The story over all might have sounded good on paper but on screen it doesn't translate well regardless of the spectacle created.

 

[Tequilla]

No...I don't agree.

Once they're in the Stock Exchange time outside can pass in almost anyway. There's an indeterminate time between the first Gunshot and them leaving. They aren't doing anything timed until the latter half of being inside the stock exchange.

So holding the captives COULD have taken hours. If they had shown a few shots of Foley outside waiting for whatever he was waiting for and it was becoming increasingly darker then the whole thing would have made more sense.

So I call it a continuity problem. They shot one half during the day and the other half at night and didn't bother to think of the downtime in the middle.

Hmmm....again No. But i understood your point. You didnt understand the mechanics of the scene maybe ? I dont know. Something like that. Or i didnt made myself clear You certainly know stock exchanges close at specific times. Here in Europe and in the US its usually at 16.00 .

So with that in mind....how do you transition between , lets say 15.54 of Bane's plan (and it must happen before the stock closes) the 5 minutes it takes to upload ....and night ?

You can't transition. If they are there for hours he doesnt go mobile. Or he doesnt execute his plan. Or maybe he would have gone during the day.

The moment they chose a particular setting...a stock exchange , and a night chase scene they simply cant put both following one another without looking broke. It's a conception problem.

Continuity is mismatches in positions and gradings. Not the architectures of the scene.

You've wrote time in that scene is very indeterminate , when actually its the most determinate. You know Bane's time to upload , and you know its a Stock. Basic time inputs that give you every single information about when it starts and when it ends.

Its broken because its misconceived . Or , rephrasing it , because night compositions with the Batman look frigging gorgeous.

 

[BatLobster]

It feels all 2012ish in here

You have to admit that scene where he sneaks up on Joker from behind and points his gun at Joker's head, then shoves him to the ground and says "We got you, you son of a b&tch" was a bad ass Gordon moment.

He was SWAT Gordon, too lol.

Dude, there is not a single showing of TDK I went to in summer of 08 where the audience didn't erupt in applause at that moment.

 

[Kane52630]

Haha, Yes! Gordon in action! That's what we needed. It in part shows that Batman has someone who is going to support him and represents Gotham moving to a more progressive angle towards crime.

Gordon did pretty much save the city from exploding in TDKR... I dunno about you but I dug Gordon taking action in that scene as well.

 

[The_Raganork]

Gordon should have had a more "Heh, it always had to be Bruce Wayne" type of reaction instead of "Bruce Wayne??!?!?"

Still an awesome moment though.

personally I think Gordon should have never asked. Bruce should have wanted him to know. Everyone else did and this man who has stood by him and suffered much because of their partnership didn't.

I would have loved if they played off a Year One scenario. Gordon's glasses are destroyed in the crash and Batman takes off his mask when Addressing him and says: "Gordon...Thank you." and Gordon says: "You don't have to thank me...you know...I'm practically blind without my glasses"

And that little lie (or non-lie) is exactly the eternal bond between them. I'll keep your secret no matter what..even in the end.

No silly flashback needed.

 

[The_Raganork]

Gordon did pretty much save the city from exploding in TDKR... I dunno about you but I dug Gordon taking action in that scene as well.

I was glad he got to do it I just wish it felt a little more focused.

That moment in TDK that Joker brought up was SO focused. That entire moment was Gordons. He was the hero, it wasn't bogged down by a zillion other things happening or skimped over to go back to Talia using her slow knife.

 

[BatLobster]

personally I think Gordon should have never asked. Bruce should have wanted him to know. Everyone else did and this man who has stood by him and suffered much because of their partnership didn't.

I would have loved if they played off a Year One scenario. Gordon's glasses are destroyed in the crash and Batman takes off his mask when Addressing him and says: "Gordon...Thank you." and Gordon says: "You don't have to thank me...you know...I'm practically blind without my glasses"

And that little lie (or non-lie) is exactly the eternal bond between them. I'll keep your secret no matter what..even in the end.

No silly flashback needed.

Gordon deserved to know more than just Bruce's identity though. He deserved to know that before Batman was his hero, he was Batman's hero. That's a huge point of the movie and a great theme. I was really glad to see Bruce make that clear to him.

He wasn't reluctant to tell Gordon his identity, he quickly gave that up for his friend. He just wanted to make sure Gordon understood the importance of preserving the symbol. He wanted the hero to be Batman, not Bruce Wayne.

 

[georgec]

And about the Two-Face flashbacks in the beginning?? LOVED it.

Those gave me chills. The music was great as well. At the same time it made sad.

 

[The_Raganork]

Hmmm....again No. But i understood your point. You didnt understand the mechanics of the scene maybe ? I dont know. Something like that. Or i didnt made myself clear You certainly know stock exchanges close at specific times. Here in Europe and in the US its usually at 16.00 .

So with that in mind....how do you transition between , lets say 15.54 of Bane's plan (and it must happen before the stock closes) the 5 minutes it takes to upload ....and night ?

You can't transition. If they are there for hours he doesnt go mobile. Or he doesnt execute his plan. Or maybe he would have gone during the day.

The moment they chose a particular setting...a stock exchange , and a night chase scene they simply cant put both following one another without looking broke. It's a conception problem.

Continuity is mismatches in positions and gradings. Not the architectures of the scene.

You've wrote time in that scene is very indeterminate , when actually its the most determinate. You know Bane's time to upload , and you know its a Stock. Basic time inputs that give you every single information about when it starts and when it ends.

Its broken because its misconceived . Or , rephrasing it , because night compositions with the Batman look frigging gorgeous.

This shouldn't factor into it. I always feel if you have to get as far as rationalizing something based on minute details like: "When does the stock exchange really close" then the film hasn't done it's job presenting itself as a world in itself.

People shouldn't have to rely on their knowledge of how a real stock exchange works for a scene that had almost nothing to do with the actual workings of a stock exchange.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Gordon's glasses are destroyed in the crash

I do wonder how Gordon managed to come out of the truck crash totally unscathed.

Batman takes off his mask when Addressing him and says: "Gordon...Thank you." and Gordon says: "You don't have to thank me...you know...I'm practically blind without my glasses"

But what about the bomb? Combine the Catwoman kissing and Gordon's response?

Gordon: You don't have to thank me....

Batman: Mmmm...mmmm..

Gordon: ...You know, I am practically blind without these glasses.

Batman: mmmm..

 

[The_Raganork]

 

[Travesty]

Gordon should have had a more "Heh, it always had to be Bruce Wayne" type of reaction instead of "Bruce Wayne??!?!?"

Still an awesome moment though.

I was actually hoping it would go like this:

*bomb ticking down*

Batman- The hero could be anybody, even a man doing something so simple and reassuring, as to put a nice coat(cut to a flashback of Batman saying "nice coat" to the bum) around a boy's shoulders.

Gordon- Steve Hall?

Batman- ........no.

Gordon- Bret Ryan, Alex Logan, Greg White, Ross....

Batman- Bruceeeeee..........

Gordon- Ummmmmm, Bruceeeeee????????

Batman- Wayyyyyyyyynnneeeeeee.....

Gordon- Wayyyyyyynnnnneeeee?????? Bruce Wayne? Huh, I don't really remember doing that to Bruce Wayne.

Batman- ............

*bomb explodes*

The Dark Knight Rises

 

[Tequilla]

This shouldn't factor into it. I always feel if you have to get as far as rationalizing something based on minute details like: "When does the stock exchange really close" then the film hasn't done it's job presenting itself as a world in itself.

People shouldn't have to rely on their knowledge of how a real stock exchange works for a scene that had almost nothing to do with the actual workings of a stock exchange.

Ok. Now we are in the knowledge department. Ok . I understand that. But since Nolan is typical continuity editing director , he establishes before going to action. So before everything starts we actually get an...established shot of the stock. From the outside . We know what time in the day is. We are then shown the plan , the necessity to go mobile , so still time is very well positioned.

You said they could have been there for hours. Well they certainly couldn't , because it had to happen before the stock got closed. This i dont think you have to be "knowledgeable".

So ...its always a conceptual problem. Not a continuity one. A continuity problem would be during the chase time went day-night-day. Thats a continuity problem.

He could have broken the stock mechanics yeah. They go there during the night , what about that ? It wouldn't make a lick of sense , but there also wouldn't be abrupt transitions between dusk and night in there. Better ? Off course not.

 

[BatLobster]

Considering Bruce was the Gotham's "favorite son" and the Waynes' murder was a historical turning point for Gotham, it makes sense that Gordon would remember where he was that night.

Nice try though Trav

 

[Isearch4dope]

Gordon deserved to know more than just Bruce's identity though. He deserved to know that before Batman was his hero, he was Batman's hero. That's a huge point of the movie and a great theme. I was really glad to see Bruce make that clear to him.

He wasn't reluctant to tell Gordon his identity, he quickly gave that up for his friend. He just wanted to make sure Gordon understood the importance of preserving the symbol. He wanted the hero to be Batman, not Bruce Wayne.

As powerful as the line was and it's significance that wasn't the time for it or the catwoman kiss. The urgency of situations and the feeling of time really being of the essence just wasn't there although complete annihilation was possible. From now on I'll reply with examples to try and convey my troubles t: