The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 145

[Travesty]

Nice try though Trav

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

[BatLobster]

Excellent.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I remember saying right before shooting starts on TDKR that it'll probably be nothing like TDK and I knew people would walk in on opening night expecting a TDK 2.0

BB was drastically different than TDK and so was with TDKR, also each film has it's flaws whether you brush it off or not. I'm on the camp where my only complaint about TDKR was the length, it needed either to be longer to drag out certain scenes or cut out of the film completely (and even with that it's hard to do). Otherwise, I didn't see anything I didn't like, it's still a Batman film the end and for me it did a pretty good job ending Nolan's run on the franchise.

Biggest reason why some can't enjoy TDKR, I believe, is that it's not like TDK. I will always believe this as much as others want to believe Nolan didn't have any heart in making TDKR.

You guys feel if they hadn't shot it in IMAX, it would've been a better film? I feel like the limitations they had to deal with was the only thing that hurt the film.

There will still be some who wouldn't view it any better even if the film was longer and gave more characters their due simply because the Dent Act would still be around(and I just can't even fathom that some actually have a problem with the 'Harvey Dent Day' as well, lol), those eight years that Batman was inactive, or even Robin John Blake.

 

[georgec]

Biggest reason why some can't enjoy TDKR, I believe, is that it's not like TDK. I will always believe this as much as others want to believe Nolan didn't have any heart in making TDKR.

Bullseye

There will still be some who wouldn't view it any better even if the film was longer and gave more characters their due simply because the Dent Act would still be around(and I just can't even fathom that some actually have a problem with the 'Harvey Dent Day' as well, lol), those eight years that Batman was inactive, or even Robin John Blake.

Man oh man, I still laugh about all the denial about the possibility of Blake being more than just Blake. People just did not want to even consider the idea.

 

[Ryan]

it has to do with the rushed quality of the film. Amazing time jumps that are hardly explained.

Lackluster characters like Talia, who could have been pretty amazing if they hadn't spent so much time making Bane everything and leaving her with the the leftovers of his damage.

Forgotten characters like Gordon throughout most of the film. Part of what makes TDK so great is that it plays between a few main characters, one of them being Gordon who holds a lot of weight in the film. TDKR seems to forget that Gordon is a major part of this Gotham. It also seems to forget Selina in the middle part of the film, instead focusing on quick glimpses into John Blake's life. Whom I still think adds nothing to the film that couldn't have been done with more from Gordon and Selina...even so what they show of Blake is really nothing much. Just him going here, going there...

and worse for me...it wasn't about anything. There's a threat on Gotham and it has to be resolved but there was so much more in TDK's threat. It wasn't going to be the end of Gotham as we know it but the ramifications of what happens in TDK were going to be far and wide no matter what.

TDKR seemed superficial. Throw a nuke in there and every one will have to accept the damage that can be done but I was hoping for a more internal story like the other two.

Bingo!

 

[Anno_Domini]

Bullseye

All this talk is making me want to see TDKR again pretty soon, lol.

 

[BatLobster]

The best word I can use to describe some of the TDKR backlash is bitterness. It's hard not to get this sense of some people being soured by the whole experience and ignoring a lot of the film's merits to focus on the flaws.

I don't mean that in an insulting way, I'd be probably be doing just the same if I was disappointed by the film. But I feel very grateful that I wasn't. Anytime I see the trilogy sitting there on my Blu-ray shelf I can't help but feel proud to have all three of those movies in my collection. The whole experience of the trilogy was once in a lifetime for me and the only thing that really soured the experience of TDKR for me was finding out about the Aurora shooting. Well, that and the new prologue dub haha. That kinda set me off on the wrong foot.

All this talk is making me want to see TDKR again pretty soon, lol.

Me too! Been a couple of months now since I've watched it. I'm waiting until I really have the itch before I watch it again.

 

[Anno_Domini]

I'm trying to wait it out until I feel like watching the entire trilogy again. Not as a marathon, but maybe like a film a day sort of thing.

It's funny, even the hate or..."displeasure" of the film that I read on here makes me eager to watch it again because I still view it as a grand masterpiece.

 

[regwec]

There is no bitterness for me- I am grateful for any concerted attempt to make a decent Batman movie. But the first thing one asks with any threequel is whether it justifies itself. Objectively, I don't think TDKR does. The trilogy would have ended on a higher note without it.

 

[Anno_Domini]

There is no bitterness for me- I am grateful for any concerted attempt to make a decent Batman movie. But the first thing one asks with any threequel is whether it justifies itself. Objectively, I don't think TDKR does. The trilogy would have ended on a higher note without it.

Without TDKR, there wouldn't be a trilogy.

And if there was a third film...who's to say that film would end up being so great?

 

[BatLobster]

There is no bitterness for me- I am grateful for any concerted attempt to make a decent Batman movie. But the first thing one asks with any threequel is whether it justifies itself. Objectively, I don't think TDKR does. The trilogy would have ended on a higher note without it.

Speaking objectively, Bruce's character arc certainly wouldn't have ended on a high note without it. There definitely needed to be another movie to close out that arc. Whether the movie could have been better or not is the subjective part I guess. But I think from a storytelling perspective, they had set up the building blocks for a trilogy with films 1 and 2 and therefore were justified in making a third, regardless of which direction it took.

 

[regwec]

WithoutR, there wouldn't be a trilogy[s/QUOTE]

Yes, yes. No need for pedantry.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Just correcting ya, lol

 

[The Joker]

Ugh I really loathe those accusations that most of those who were unsatisfied with TDKR felt that way because it's wasn't TDK 2.0

Talk about denial.

 

[Anno_Domini]

Ugh I really loathe those accusations that most of those who were unsatisfied with TDKR felt that way because it's wasn't TDK 2.0

Talk about denial.

It's fine you feel like that. I loathe the ideas of some that Nolan didn't have any heart when working with TDKR or that Warner Brothers rushed him(I'm not saying you specifically have these ideas; just an example of the other side of the fence and their stances towards TDKR).

 

[The Joker]

It's fine you feel like that. I loathe the ideas of some that Nolan didn't have any heart when working with TDKR or that Warner Brothers rushed him(I'm not saying you specifically have these ideas; just an example of the other side of the fence and their stances towards TDKR).

People base those opinions on a movie they feel did not have the love, energy, and effort that was put into the previous two movies because of the numerous flaws they see in the movie.

Where would anyone get the idea these detractors were expecting a TDK clone? Where have they been saying this? It would be impossible. Nolan was never going to recast Joker and Dent was dead.

It would be more credible to say people were expecting a movie that was as good as TDK.

 

[Ryan]

People base those opinions on a movie they feel did not have the love, energy, and effort that was put into the previous two movies because of the numerous flaws they see in the movie.

Where would anyone get the idea these detractors were expecting a TDK clone? Where have they been saying this? It would be impossible. Nolan was never going to recast Joker and Dent was dead.

It would be more credible to say people were expecting a movie that was as good as TDK.

Bullsey...err....dead on!

 

[Kane52630]

Ugh I really loathe those accusations that most of those who were unsatisfied with TDKR felt that way because it's wasn't TDK 2.0

Talk about denial.

Well I didn't say all but yes I think it's a pretty good majority who were expecting it.

 

[BestGirl]

You guys feel if they hadn't shot it in IMAX, it would've been a better film? I feel like the limitations they had to deal with was the only thing that hurt the film.

Yes, because more time could've been devoted to Bane's Gotham, the coolest part of the movie.

The single easiest way to improve TDKR's quality would've been to ditch Talia, though. Every scene Miranda's in is one of the worst in the movie, and her backstory felt rushed.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Ugh I really loathe those accusations that most of those who were unsatisfied with TDKR felt that way because it's wasn't TDK 2.0

Talk about denial.

It's an useless accusation because most of the people still discussing this film in this forum have been following this film's production since the beginning, as well as having seen the tone disparity between Begins and TDK knew full well it wouldn't be the same tone as the former.

Then who else is it referring to? The casual public? The casual public liked the film.

 

[Panthro]

Biggest reason why some can't enjoy TDKR, I believe, is that it's not like TDK. I will always believe this as much as others want to believe Nolan didn't have any heart in making TDKR.

I think some fans were unhappy because they were expecting "Batman Forever... DONE RIGHT", a more serious interpretation of Bruce Wayne accepting/embracing that it is his destiny to forever be Batman, to spend the rest of his life prowling the streets of Gotham (or crouching on the buildings at night by stone gargoyles), forever vigilant, forever in search of evildoers to punish, etc., thus giving audiences a James Bond circa 1962-2002 cycle of films where Bats would just bounce from one adventure to the next, fighting every villain in his rogue's gallery for decades to come (with the occasional recast and some vague continuity connections).

Instead, they got "the Happy Ending Batman Will Never Have In The Mainstream Comics Because There Must Always Be Another Mission On A Monthly Basis".

I admit TDKR isn't what I expected but I love the film anyway.

There will still be some who wouldn't view it any better even if the film was longer and gave more characters their due simply because the Dent Act would still be around(and I just can't even fathom that some actually have a problem with the 'Harvey Dent Day' as well, lol), those eight years that Batman was inactive, or even Robin John Blake.

Probably.

 

[batfreakforever]

Take away whatever issues YOU have with the editing, pacing,action etc and I think the main issue fans have is what story was being told in TDKR. To each their own if you don't like TDKR but from also reading posts on here there are more reasons fans did'nt like it: they hang on to comments Nolan & Goyer said what they might do in the 3rd after BB & before TDK was released, compairing this Batman to comics Batman & not understand this take, going off comments the characters said in the previous films, no matter what TDKR was they were never going to be happy, wanting TDK 2.0, wanting Joker again because he said in TDK you & ''I are destined to do this forever'', thinking that they really know what Nolan had in his head, just hate Nolan, not listening to what,where,how and why in TDKR (eg: Bruce quit-no he Won, was a recluse for 8years-wrong its 3 yrs etc).

 

[Schrute]

I don't think anybody wanted "TDK 2.0", I think everyone was hoping we would get a third film at least on the same level or hopefully better than TDK.

There are people on this board who got just that when they say they believe TDKR is the best of trilogy. Myself, and others, wish we felt the same way but not everyone does. I know for myself the story just wasn't that exciting because of its execution and felt rushed towards the middle of the film to the end just so it could get to the twist and ending, which is why I prefer TDK and BB.

 

[Anno_Domini]

People base those opinions on a movie they feel did not have the love, energy, and effort that was put into the previous two movies because of the numerous flaws they see in the movie.

Where would anyone get the idea these detractors were expecting a TDK clone? Where have they been saying this? It would be impossible. Nolan was never going to recast Joker and Dent was dead.

It would be more credible to say people were expecting a movie that was as good as TDK.

Hah, well you may say want I believe to be in denial...but such stances on WB rushing Nolan, or his heart not being in this film...I would certainly call that denial

And I'm not going to say "as good as TDK", because it quite frankly is...the way it doesn't feel just like TDK is what I feel takes some people away from enjoying it.

Well I didn't say all but yes I think it's a pretty good majority who were expecting it.

I agree

And I bet a whole lot would as well with your statement.

 

[The Joker]

Well I didn't say all but yes I think it's a pretty good majority who were expecting it.

And you're basing that belief on what?

It's an useless accusation because most of the people still discussing this film in this forum have been following this film's production since the beginning, as well as having seen the tone disparity between Begins and TDK knew full well it wouldn't be the same tone as the former.

Then who else is it referring to? The casual public? The casual public liked the film.

Exactly. If we had some proof of all these detractors saying this then I might buy it. But since most of them have valid complaints against the movie which have nothing to do with it not being a TDK clone, this argument has no credibility.

I don't think anybody wanted "TDK 2.0", I think everyone was hoping we would get a third film at least on the same level or hopefully better than TDK.

There are people on this board who got just that when they say they believe TDKR is the best of trilogy. Myself, and others, wish we felt the same way but not everyone does. I know for myself the story just wasn't that exciting because of its execution and felt rushed towards the middle of the film to the end just so it could get to the twist and ending, which is why I prefer TDK and BB.

That's the reality of the situation.

Hah, well you may say want I believe to be in denial...but such stances on WB rushing Nolan, or his heart not being in this film...I would certainly call that denial

You can call it what ever you want, but at least those opinions are based on something. Namely the inferior quality of the movie and all the flaws and problems people have with it. They're not just conjuring their opinions out of thin air. They're basing them on something.

Saying most detractors wanted TDK 2.0 is based on nothing at all.

And I'm not going to say "as good as TDK", because it quite frankly is

To you. For a lot of people it didn't live up to that standard. It's got nothing to do with wanting a TDK 2.0 because we've heard all the plethora of reasons why people think TDKR fell short. There's reviews, articles, lists, videos and so much more.