The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 146

[MAKAVELI25]

I hate people who defend movies so rabidly, you'd think it was one of their children.

Anno was one of the most annoying posters on the board. Good riddance t:

 

[kvz5]

Hey guys... did we ever find out what the prize was for that Fandango virtual theater thingie?

 

[Kane52630]

Oh god...the memories.

 

[shauner111]

I hate to be THAT GUY, but Batman losing to Bane probably had more to do with the 8 year absence than letting his anger destroy him. Just saying

It was both really.

 

[kvz5]

Oh god...the memories.

Nevah forget. t:

It was both really.

Yeah I think it was both along with other factors. Out of practice, weakened body, wrong state of mind (borderline suicidal, having that rage, etc.).

 

[MAKAVELI25]

It was both really.

I beg to disagree. Infact, Bruce seems a whole lot less angry in TDKR than in the previous movies. He seems almost like he has given up on life because his passion is no longer there. Anger is what drove the Batman, without it he seems like a former shell of himself. I wouldn't say he showed anger in the fight against Bane so must as a desperate attempt to summon some strength from the Batman he had been before.

 

[JackWhite]

I beg to disagree. Infact, Bruce seems a whole lot less angry in TDKR than in the previous movies. He seems almost like he has given up on life because his passion is no longer there. Anger is what drove the Batman, without it he seems like a former shell of himself. I wouldn't say he showed anger in the fight against Bane so must as a desperate attempt to summon some strength from the Batman he had been before.

Alfred: I know what this means.

Bruce: What does it mean?

Alfred: It means your hatred.

Bruce was still plenty angry.

 

[kvz5]

Alfred: I know what this means.

Bruce: What does it mean?

Alfred: It means your hatred.

That scene...

 

[Snow Queen]

Alfred: I know what this means.

Bruce: What does it mean?

Alfred: It means your hatred.

Bruce was still plenty angry.

To add:

Bruce: "I'm not afraid, I'm angry."

 

[JackWhite]

That scene...

I know.

To add:

Bruce: "I'm not afraid, I'm angry."

 

[Tequilla]

Here's a pic from the TDK viral newspaper that has nashton's name. They also mention the Iceberg Lounge and the suspicious deaths of Carnival Performers.

Yeah that's from viral marketing. The user said it's mentioned in the film. I dont remember being in it.

 

[Tequilla]

Alfred: I know what this means.

Bruce: What does it mean?

Alfred: It means your hatred.

Bruce was still plenty angry.

And the movie is expository. Imagine if it wasn't t:

He's pretty pissed.

 

[Tequilla]

Anno was one of the most annoying posters on the board. Good riddance t:

Man , badmouthing a banned user who can't defend himself ? Really ?

He's gone...he's gone. No need to do that.

 

[Ryan]

Yeah that's from viral marketing. The user said it's mentioned in the film. I dont remember being in it.

No idea. Just read someone was talking about so thought I'd post a pic for those that didn't know about it or hadn't seen it.

 

[Carnotaur3]

I think others are forgetting that in order for TDK's ending to make sense in the context of where TDKR starts that the Dent lie would have had to have a positive effect on Gotham City.

If you recall, Dent was responsible for a huge Rico. It's only natural that after his death an even crazier act would follow by the authorities and politicians that were inspired by him. So the Dent Act was created.

Logically, the Dent Act made a killing. It would have to be if Batman and Gordon's plan for making Dent The White Knight at the end of TDK wasn't pointless.

And because Batman took the fall for the murders, that made him the last and only villain at the end of TDK's events and all through his retirement. That meant, before Bane showed up, Batman became the last known fugitive.

So the Dent Act works. Batman becomes unnecessary. Bruce sees this as his out, not because of Rachel, but because all the events that transpired led him to this decision with Gordon. Joker could not win, even if that meant he had to go away as Batman and let Dent take over.

And I assure you, if the beginning did not hit it home, Bruce still wanted to be Batman for years, it's just he was devoted to keeping the lie intact because he thought it better served Gotham more than Batman ever did ("Blood on my hands").

TDK's theme of escalation ends with the movie because Batman realizes that even though Dent did kill those people, Joker was right about one thing... it would not have happened if it weren't for him. Batman disappears, the escalation stops. With the mob taken care of, Batman is no longer needed.

So TDKR opens with the lie still in effect. And Bane is the answer to unsurp the lie, which is why he is put in place as reading the note instead of Gordon. Many had problems with this, but this was all about punishment. To have had Batman or Gordon tell the world that 8 years was all based on a lie, that Dent ended up becoming the bad guys he was fighting, wouldn't be quite the shame necessary to get them out of their heads and rise to be heros.

None of this contradicts Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

So the fans expected Batman to be hunted between TDK and TDKR but not realizing that if Batman ain't there, he's not being chased. Now, I'm sure police were following leads all through those 8 years. It was certainly now much less of a Joke(r) than it was in TDK where "the investigation was ongoing" with pictures of Lincoln and Bigfoot as suspects.

Dent was an honored man, for sure. The movie happens to open with the anniversary hosted by Wayne. People adored this guy 8 years on. So, it's only natural that the people that believed the lie, also believed Batman was a murderer. That would probably be the entire police force. And as soon as Batman reemerges, guess what happens? They forget about Bane and start hunting the Batman because they view nobody else as a villain. With the Dent act, they've taken out so much crime and built up so much confidence, that they consider Bane as nothing, which puts them in the hot seat later. Batman also undersells Bane, which is why he's beaten within an inch of his life.

None of this contradicts Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

 

[georgec]

I think others are forgetting that in order for TDK's ending to make sense in the context of where TDKR starts that the Dent lie would have had to have a positive effect on Gotham City.

If you recall, Dent was responsible for a huge Rico. It's only natural that after his death an even crazier act would follow by the authorities and politicians that were inspired by him. So the Dent Act was created.

Logically, the Dent Act made a killing. It would have to be if Batman and Gordon's plan for making Dent The White Knight at the end of TDK wasn't pointless.

And because Batman took the fall for the murders, that made him the last and only villain at the end of TDK's events and all through his retirement. That meant, before Bane showed up, Batman became the last known fugitive.

So the Dent Act works. Batman becomes unnecessary. Bruce sees this as his out, not because of Rachel, but because all the events that transpired led him to this decision with Gordon. Joker could not win, even if that meant he had to go away as Batman and let Dent take over.

And I assure you, if the beginning did not hit it home, Bruce still wanted to be Batman for years, it's just he was devoted to keeping the lie intact because he thought it better served Gotham more than Batman ever did ("Blood on my hands").

TDK's theme of escalation ends with the movie because Batman realizes that even though Dent did kill those people, Joker was right about one thing... it would not have happened if it weren't for him. Batman disappears, the escalation stops. With the mob taken care of, Batman is no longer needed.

So TDKR opens with the lie still in effect. And Bane is the answer to unsurp the lie, which is why he is put in place as reading the note instead of Gordon. Many had problems with this, but this was all about punishment. To have had Batman or Gordon tell the world that 8 years was all based on a lie, that Dent ended up becoming the bad guys he was fighting, wouldn't be quite the shame necessary to get them out of their heads and rise to be heros.

None of this contradicts Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

So the fans expected Batman to be hunted between TDK and TDKR but not realizing that if Batman ain't there, he's not being chased. Now, I'm sure police were following leads all through those 8 years. It was certainly now much less of a Joke(r) than it was in TDK where "the investigation was ongoing" with pictures of Lincoln and Bigfoot as suspects.

Dent was an honored man, for sure. The movie happens to open with the anniversary hosted by Wayne. People adored this guy 8 years on. So, it's only natural that the people that believed the lie, also believed Batman was a murderer. That would probably be the entire police force. And as soon as Batman reemerges, guess what happens? They forget about Bane and start hunting the Batman because they view nobody else as a villain. With the Dent act, they've taken out so much crime and built up so much confidence, that they consider Bane as nothing, which puts them in the hot seat later. Batman also undersells Bane, which is why he's beaten within an inch of his life.

None of this contradicts Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

I like you.

It's funny, the bridge from TDK to TDKR makes perfect sense to me in the same way you've explained.

I have yet to see anyone provide a reason for why Batman should stay active after TDK.

 

[BatLobster]

Just heard about Anno. That's too bad. Even for those of you that got into clashes with him, you all have to admit that this place would be way more boring if we all just agreed on everything. This is a TDKR board after all, there ought to be a few diehard TDKR fans here to keep things on an even keel. Too bad we lost one.

 

[Carnotaur3]

I like you.

It's funny, the bridge from TDK to TDKR makes perfect sense to me in the same way you've explained.

I have yet to see anyone provide a reason for why Batman should stay active after TDK.

The movie explains it's reasonings. It's in there in the film. I think a lot of fans that were disappointed by that had a preconceived notion of how the film should start based on ONE interpretation of the ending of TDK. I know this because when I saw TDK, I thought the same thing. "Oh boy, Batman against all of GCPD! Bring it on!" But that ending was only meant to tell you one thing: Batman is a now considered a villain in the eyes of Gotham.

The progression from TDK and TDKR that transpired makes more sense in their given contexts.

 

[georgec]

The movie explains it's reasonings. It's in there in the film. I think a lot of fans that were disappointed by that had a preconceived notion of how the film should start based on ONE interpretation of the ending of TDK. I know this because when I saw TDK, I thought the same thing. "Oh boy, Batman against all of GCPD! Bring it on!" But that ending was only meant to tell you one thing: Batman is a now considered a villain in the eyes of Gotham.

The progression from TDK and TDKR that transpired makes more sense in their given contexts.

Agree 100% - the transition makes perfect sense in the story. If people don't like how it unfolds that's fine, but writing it completely off as 'forced' or 'unnatural' is hyperbolic. The story, the personal arc of Bruce, the reason for being Batman - it's all there and nothing is tarnished or contradicted.

And I'll shamelessly plug my post from yesterday.

 

[regwec]

I suppose the fact that it renders many of the concepts of TDK rather empty means that many people prefer to reject the premise of TDKR, as TDK is the far superior film.

 

[The Joker]

I think others are forgetting that in order for TDK's ending to make sense in the context of where TDKR starts that the Dent lie would have had to have a positive effect on Gotham City.

Yeah but not to the extent that Batman was done the night after Dent died, and crime was so low that Gordon was going to be retired early.

That was ridiculous, even for a comic book movie.

 

[Carnotaur3]

Yeah but not to the extent that Batman was done the night after Dent died, and crime was so low that Gordon was going to be retired early.

That was ridiculous, even for a comic book movie.

"Gotham needs a hero with a face. Dent is that hero."

"Because I'm not a hero. I'm like Dent. I killed those people."

Batman is setting himself up to quit throughout the whole film. It's in the film. You can't just willfully ignore it. You can't name a successor and KEEP GOING.

 

[The Joker]

"Gotham needs a hero with a face. Dent is that hero."

"Because I'm not a hero. I'm like Dent. I killed those people."

Batman is setting himself up to quit throughout the whole film. It's in the film. You can't just willfully ignore it. You can't name a successor and KEEP GOING.

I'm not ignoring anything. I got that Batman wanted Dent to be Gotham's new hope and hero with a face, but not to an instantaneous effect that Batman was suddenly useless the night Dent popped his clogs. Dent's rise to martyrdom, and the eventual decrease in crime should have been a gradual thing, where Batman was still active and needed, on the run, and not have been rendered unneeded that very night.

Nolan was never that sloppy. He didn't make Batman's effect on crime take instantaneous effect the night after he appeared in Gotham. Even after he took down Falcone, the underworld adjusted to his absence by filling the void, and adjusting their methods to avoid Batman.

That's one of the great things about TDK. It shows the gradual effects of Batman on Gotham. TDKR just skips ahead 8 years and drops some ridiculous bombshell that Batman has been gone 8 years because he wasn't needed thanks to Gotham being a utopia because of Dent and some phony baloney law called the Dent Act that magically wiped out crime lol.

Total BS.

 

[Carnotaur3]

I'm not ignoring anything. I got that Batman wanted Dent to be Gotham's new hope and hero with a face, but not to an instantaneous effect that Batman was suddenly useless the night Dent popped his clogs. Dent's rise to martyrdom, and the eventual decrease in crime should have been a gradual thing, where Batman was still active and needed, on the run, and not have been rendered unneeded that very night.

Nolan was never that sloppy. He didn't make Batman's effect on crime take instantaneous effect the night after he appeared in Gotham. Even after he took down Falcone, the underworld adjusted to his absence by filling the void, and adjusting their methods to avoid Batman.

That's one of the great things about TDK. It shows the gradual effects of Batman on Gotham. TDKR just skips ahead 8 years and drops some ridiculous bombshell that Batman has been gone 8 years because he wasn't needed thanks to Gotham being a utopia because of Dent and some phony baloney law called the Dent Act that magically wiped out crime lol.

Total BS.

It wiped out Organized Crime, not crime in general. If you wanted to see the gradual effects, then you wouldn't have had the outcome of how Dent stamped out crime. Look, you have to give Dent's death weight in the sequel, otherwise, just framing Batman at the end of TDK is just a nice ending that goes no where.

The Dent Act (as crazy as a concept it was) makes sense if only because Dent was doing crazy acts like that in TDK - The Rico case that brought 200 high level and mid level mobsters to court being virtually unprecedented. By not offering parole, these guys will never walk the streets again.

That's not really all that hard of a concept to wrap your head around, especially when you have a city that was downtrodden by organized crime, that that organized crime started their depression and that you have Gotham PD exonerating a known vigilante (until they no longer can't). They're taking their chances and expanding their horizons with the law.

 

[BatLobster]

That whole "gradual" process got hugely accelerated when Batman, Gordon and Dent hatched a plan to convict hundreds of mobsters all in on fell swoop. That was an endgame. That was a plan Batman was willing to hang up the cape for in the first place. The trials were still pending when TDK ended.