The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 146

[LeoGal83]

TDKR > TDK > BB. End of story. =P

 

[shauner111]

TDKR > TDK > BB. End of story. =P

Some days I feel the same way!

 

[JackWhite]

Exactly. It barely scratched the surface.

It's a great starting point. When Blake goes to visit the boys from the orphanage and the priest; that is when the people of Gotham should have been asking what was up.

 

[GremlinZilla89]

No it wasn't. Not even close to it.

Mmmm ya kinda was.

 

[JackWhite]

Mmmm ya kinda was.

 

[The Joker]

It's a great starting point. When Blake goes to visit the boys from the orphanage and the priest; that is when the people of Gotham should have been asking what was up.

From the moment the Dent cover up was revealed, that's when we should have started seeing some proper Gothamite reactions, and not just another dose of dull Blake moral posturing.

Mmmm ya kinda was.

 

[Ms. Marvel]

What I noticed is that the quote "you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become a villain" applies to both Harvey Dent and Bane.

 

[JackWhite]

From the moment the Dent cover up was revealed, that's when we should have started seeing some proper Gothamite reactions, and not just another dose of dull Blake moral posturing.

t:

 

[Ryan]

Lol, every time I see that Ryan has the last post in a thread, I'm 99% sure the post is going to be "Bingo!".

No offense, Ry

Bingo!

Ha, none taken BatLobsterRises. I do see its catching on though as I"ve seen you and our dear departed friend Anno use "bingo" in some of your posts as well I had to laugh though as I saw Anno use "yahtzee" once, but it never quite caught on as well as 'bingo'

 

[Shikamaru]

Ouch. I'm on your side and even I got a bit intimidated by this. :P

It is amazing just how badass a character like Batman can look by almost practically doing anything. This gif is an example of that. If there is one criticism I have of all live-action Batman films so far including all 3 Nolan films, it is that Batman wasn't fully "there". All live-action versions of Batman felt watered down to me in comparison to the Batman of the comics. No live-action version yet has shown to be the world's greatest detective or displayed all 127 martial arts styles or displayed Batman's full intellect. I also felt that no version of Batman fully carried themselves the way I always envisioned Batman to carry himself. In my mind, Batman is supposed to give off the vibe that he is what I like to jokingly refer to as "an intellectual badass". Everything from the way he walks to the way he talks should not only be scary and intimidating but also give off the impression that Batman is constantly cold and calculative. When it comes to his voice, it should sound not only frightening (yet still natural as opposed to growly) but a person should get a feeling of how smart he is by hearing his speaking patterns. I don't know how to explain what I mean by that; I can only source Kevin Conroy as an example . I do think all the Batmans from Keaton to Bale though (except Clooney) had a few moments here and there when they did come off as all of that and completely felt like Batman but I never felt that any of them consistently gave off that complete Batman vibe.

All these things are not stuff the average Joe would notice but the difference is noticeable to those that read Batman (at least it is to me).

 

[The Batman]

^ Its noticable to me too, and why I feel that Batman has yet to have his Christopher Reeve or RDJ, and also why people think Batman's villains steal the show in the movies. Batman is watered down, yet villains like Joker and Catwoman get shown in all their glory.

 

[LeoGal83]

Some days I feel the same way!

Yep. Well, almost one year... and I don't changed my mind. I love TDKR (especially - the last scenes). =)

 

[shauner111]

Ouch. I'm on your side and even I got a bit intimidated by this. :P

It is amazing just how badass a character like Batman can look by almost practically doing anything. This gif is an example of that. If there is one criticism I have of all live-action Batman films so far including all 3 Nolan films, it is that Batman wasn't fully "there". All live-action versions of Batman felt watered down to me in comparison to the Batman of the comics. No live-action version yet has shown to be the world's greatest detective or displayed all 127 martial arts styles or displayed Batman's full intellect. I also felt that no version of Batman fully carried themselves the way I always envisioned Batman to carry himself. In my mind, Batman is supposed to give off the vibe that he is what I like to jokingly refer to as "an intellectual badass". Everything from the way he walks to the way he talks should not only be scary and intimidating but also give off the impression that Batman is constantly cold and calculative. When it comes to his voice, it should sound not only frightening (yet still natural as opposed to growly) but a person should get a feeling of how smart he is by hearing his speaking patterns. I don't know how to explain what I mean by that; I can only source Kevin Conroy as an example . I do think all the Batmans from Keaton to Bale though (except Clooney) had a few moments here and there when they did come off as all of that and completely felt like Batman but I never felt that any of them consistently gave off that complete Batman vibe.

All these things are not stuff the average Joe would notice but the difference is noticeable to those that read Batman (at least it is to me).

I don't think he has to sound intellectual. It would be nice now to see that Conroy style come through in the voice, where it's intimidating but smart. But for me as long as it's threatening and he's not saying "stupid" things to criminals, then I don't care. He's like a creature. He's a bat. Bats don't speak. Batman should be silent and a shadowy character and if he talks you should feel threatened. Whether it's done like Keaton, Conroy or Bale..theyre all different tones but it all feels threatening to me. People say Bale's yelling at criminals to get information out of them was a joke...but if somebody dressed like that, with THAT kind of reputation behind him..yells at me im gonna **** my pants and tell him/it what he needs to know. He doesn't have to sound like he's a goddamn scientist (that's cool when he talks with Gordon though). Do bats go to college? t: I mean the whole point is to strike fear into criminals, it's not about sounding smart or sounding dumb, it's just about fear and getting information out of someone. It shouldn't make a criminal go "K so that's a highly intelligent man underneath that cowl"...leave that for Bruce Wayne in private. He doesn't need to prove to ANYBODY that he's an intellectual. Let the audience and Gordon know those details. Keep the criminals confused as to what to think about this Bat.

 

[BatLobster]

Bingo!

Ha, none taken BatLobsterRises. I do see its catching on though as I"ve seen you and our dear departed friend Anno use "bingo" in some of your posts as well I had to laugh though as I saw Anno use "yahtzee" once, but it never quite caught on as well as 'bingo'

On another note, it's pretty amazing how often the "personality" of Gotham debate comes up here. I feel like we're caught in this loop of debating the merits of Blake, the 8 year gap/Dent Act, the Gotham/revolution aspect and Talia's role in the story. Those are the four hot button issues that seem to be the litmus test of where one's ultimate opinion on the movie falls, for people here anyway.

Oh, and with regard to Shika's Batman sounding criteria, I have to say there are certain scenes in TDK and TDKR where I feel like both writing-wise and voice-wise it's dead-on.

"His name's Schiff, Thomas. He's a paranoid schizophrenic at Arkham, the kind of mind The Joker attracts. What do you expect to learn from him?"

"That depends...on what you're wanted for. I acquired it to keep it out of the wrong hands."

It has that blend of brainy and badass and I could totally see those lines fitting into BTAS. I also really like the growl when it's not as over the top and Bale is a bit more expressive and I think those are a couple of examples of that.

 

[BlackFox]

Ouch. I'm on your side and even I got a bit intimidated by this. :P

It is amazing just how badass a character like Batman can look by almost practically doing anything. This gif is an example of that. If there is one criticism I have of all live-action Batman films so far including all 3 Nolan films, it is that Batman wasn't fully "there". All live-action versions of Batman felt watered down to me in comparison to the Batman of the comics. No live-action version yet has shown to be the world's greatest detective or displayed all 127 martial arts styles or displayed Batman's full intellect. I also felt that no version of Batman fully carried themselves the way I always envisioned Batman to carry himself. In my mind, Batman is supposed to give off the vibe that he is what I like to jokingly refer to as "an intellectual badass". Everything from the way he walks to the way he talks should not only be scary and intimidating but also give off the impression that Batman is constantly cold and calculative. When it comes to his voice, it should sound not only frightening (yet still natural as opposed to growly) but a person should get a feeling of how smart he is by hearing his speaking patterns. I don't know how to explain what I mean by that; I can only source Kevin Conroy as an example . I do think all the Batmans from Keaton to Bale though (except Clooney) had a few moments here and there when they did come off as all of that and completely felt like Batman but I never felt that any of them consistently gave off that complete Batman vibe.

All these things are not stuff the average Joe would notice but the difference is noticeable to those that read Batman (at least it is to me).

While I feel Bale delivered the best live action Bruce/Batman so far I do agree with bits of what you say here, however it got me thinking and I kind of feel that "Batman" was at his best in Begins.

The way he looked and appeared was more intimidating than TDK or TDKR.

The scenes that stick in my head to come to this conclusion are:

-Batman appearing behind Rachel Dawes in the subway
-Batmans look after telling Raz he "cant take two of your pawns?"
-The first appearance of Bats and the "I'm Batman" line
-Demon form Batman

Thats was the most bad-ass Batman to me, but then that film was about "fear" so it kind of is fitting it was that way. We got the more intellectual and "thinky" Batman in TDK and TDKR who had to face different sorts of enemy and issues they presented.

 

[Shikamaru]

While I feel Bale delivered the best live action Bruce/Batman so far I do agree with bits of what you say here, however it got me thinking and I kind of feel that "Batman" was at his best in Begins.

The way he looked and appeared was more intimidating than TDK or TDKR.

The scenes that stick in my head to come to this conclusion are:

-Batman appearing behind Rachel Dawes in the subway
-Batmans look after telling Raz he "cant take two of your pawns?"
-The first appearance of Bats and the "I'm Batman" line
-Demon form Batman

Thats was the most bad-ass Batman to me, but then that film was about "fear" so it kind of is fitting it was that way. We got the more intellectual and "thinky" Batman in TDK and TDKR who had to face different sorts of enemy and issues they presented.

In terms of his abilities, Batman was at his best in TDK. In terms of what film I liked him more in, it varies. I go back and forth on this all the time. I thought BB's Batman was more theatrical. He looked more like Batman, moved a lot more like how I expect Batman to move, fought more like Batman, and used gadgets like the batarangs more. I also liked Bale's performance more in BB. On the other hand, TDK's Batman acted more like Batman personality wise and was a bit more in the classic Batman mindset. He was also a bit more cold and more calculative and had more similar interactions with his supporting cast to the ones in the comics. The sonar scene specifically is also easily the best Batman scene in the entire trilogy IMO. I also enjoyed the message behind Batman in TDK more than the message behind Batman in BB. Overall, I guess I liked BB's Batman a bit more. However, the things I loved the most about TDK's Batman top the things I loved the most about BB's Batman.

However, I disagree that TDK/TDKR's Batman was the thinky/intellectual Batman. He was by no means an idiot and was smarter than in BB but he never felt like he had genius level intellect or that he was the world's greatest detective, something I felt was true about all live-action versions of Batman so far. Batman's intellect is on par with Sherlock Holmes' and several DC characters consider him to be the best tactician in the world. Heck, Superman went as far as to call Batman the most dangerous man in the world.

I'll put it this way. Whenever Sherlock Holmes is outsmarted by Moriarty, it is meant to be a big deal and comes off as shocking to the audience. While Batman has shown his wits on the big screen here and there, no one really felt that whenever he was outsmarted. I don't think there is anyone that went "OMG How could this villain outsmart this version of Batman that I am watching when this Batman is just soooooo smart?"

It is a bit ironic that Superman often gets a bad rep for being overpowered yet Superman was adapted in all his might and glory in two different Superman franchises already (even Cavill's version is not that watered down if you read the John Byrne run) while Batman still has to appear on the big screen in all his might and glory.

I will give Nolan credit where it is due on having the strongest Batman so far though. Despite still considering his Batman to not fully be "there" yet, I think he is an improvement over the previous live-action versions. At least I felt that way until TDKR, where he got crippled.

 

[Ryan]

Probably Bale's Batman in BB remains my favourite. I'm not saying its better then TDK's Batman, but it was probably the first time I really felt they got Batman 'right' on film. The dock scene and the "swear to me' scene, presented Batman from an almost horrifying perspective, which I honestly never experienced from the earlier films.

 

[AnneFan]

Yep, TDK Batman was Bruce at his peak. For example:

Remote controlling The Tumbler into Scarecrow's car park meeting. Then showing up.
Using his sticky bomb gun and timing his skyhook escape perfectly to bring Lau back.
Fighting his way to Maroni in the cover of the nightclub's pumping music and dim lighting.
Dropping Maroni to the ground and doing his yelling thing.
Getting fingerprints off a shattered bullet.
Sacrificing The Tumbler to save Dent.
Joining SWAT together via a line and dangling them from the building.
Deciding to take the fall for Dent's crimes so Joker doesn't win. Leading into...

TDKR Batman who was the most fallible and human. He went through a lot.

Reclusive and wasn't Batman for eight years.
Uses mechanical device on his knee so he can function properly.
Takes a massive financial hit, car taken away and public image tarnished.
Has a bust up with Alfred who then leaves him.
Doesn't fear death and as a result is pummelled by Bane.
Imprisoned and forced to watch his city be destroyed.
Fails to climb to freedom several times.
Develops his fear of death again and escapes reborn.
Put his trust into Miranda and was screwed over.

His reward it to retire with Anne-lina so it's all worth it. t:

 

[Alex Logan]

Yep, TDK Batman was Bruce at his peak. For example:

Remote controlling The Tumbler into Scarecrow's car park meeting. Then showing up.
Using his sticky bomb gun and timing his skyhook escape perfectly to bring Lau back.
Fighting his way to Maroni in the cover of the nightclub's pumping music and dim lighting.
Dropping Maroni to the ground and doing his yelling thing.
Getting fingerprints off a shattered bullet.
Sacrificing The Tumbler to save Dent.
Joining SWAT together via a line and dangling them from the building.
Deciding to take the fall for Dent's crimes so Joker doesn't win. Leading into...

TDKR Batman who was the most fallible and human. He went through a lot.

Reclusive and wasn't Batman for eight years.
Uses mechanical device on his knee so he can function properly.
Takes a massive financial hit, car taken away and public image tarnished.
Has a bust up with Alfred who then leaves him.
Doesn't fear death and as a result is pummelled by Bane.
Imprisoned and forced to watch his city be destroyed.
Fails to climb to freedom several times.
Develops his fear of death again and escapes reborn.
Put his trust into Miranda and was screwed over.

His reward it to retire with Anne-lina so it's all worth it. t:

Exactly... and what a reward. t:

 

[BatLobster]

In terms of his abilities, Batman was at his best in TDK. In terms of what film I liked him more in, it varies. I go back and forth on this all the time. I thought BB's Batman was more theatrical. He looked more like Batman, moved a lot more like how I expect Batman to move, fought more like Batman, and used gadgets like the batarangs more. I also liked Bale's performance more in BB. On the other hand, TDK's Batman acted more like Batman personality wise and was a bit more in the classic Batman mindset. He was also a bit more cold and more calculative and had more similar interactions with his supporting cast to the ones in the comics. The sonar scene specifically is also easily the best Batman scene in the entire trilogy IMO. I also enjoyed the message behind Batman in TDK more than the message behind Batman in BB. Overall, I guess I liked BB's Batman a bit more. However, the things I loved the most about TDK's Batman top the things I loved the most about BB's Batman.

However, I disagree that TDK/TDKR's Batman was the thinky/intellectual Batman. He was by no means an idiot and was smarter than in BB but he never felt like he had genius level intellect or that he was the world's greatest detective, something I felt was true about all live-action versions of Batman so far. Batman's intellect is on par with Sherlock Holmes' and several DC characters consider him to be the best tactician in the world. Heck, Superman went as far as to call Batman the most dangerous man in the world.

I'll put it this way. Whenever Sherlock Holmes is outsmarted by Moriarty, it is meant to be a big deal and comes off as shocking to the audience. While Batman has shown his wits on the big screen here and there, no one really felt that whenever he was outsmarted. I don't think there is anyone that went "OMG How could this villain outsmart this version of Batman that I am watching when this Batman is just soooooo smart?"

It is a bit ironic that Superman often gets a bad rep for being overpowered yet Superman was adapted in all his might and glory in two different Superman franchises already (even Cavill's version is not that watered down if you read the John Byrne run) while Batman still has to appear on the big screen in all his might and glory.

I will give Nolan credit where it is due on having the strongest Batman so far though. Despite still considering his Batman to not fully be "there" yet, I think he is an improvement over the previous live-action versions. At least I felt that way until TDKR, where he got crippled.

The reason for all of this is pretty simple: movie adaptations of Batman so far have treated him as an action hero first, detective second. That's because they have all primarily been constructed as action films.

I don't think fans of "The World's Greatest Detective" are ever going to get that Batman on film until WB is willing to get behind a Batman film that's primarily constructed as a noir mystery/detective film. A movie that's willing to sacrifice an action beat for a 5 minute scene of Bruce and Alfred doing some forensics work in the cave.

I mean, TDK is probably the most detective oriented Batman film we've seen. And look at the way the biggest detective "set piece" (fingahprintz) is treated. It's kind of skimmed over and dealt with via a montage that's intercut with the totally unrelated plot point of Reese. The reason for this? Nolan probably didn't want the movie to come to a stall, so he wisely kept the forward momentum going by dealing with two subplots simultaneously. It will take a movie that's willing to dig in deep in those sorts of scenes and get more science-y, rather than skim over them. It'd be a different type of Batman movie. The reason Sherlock is able to look like the world's greatest detective all the time is because his stories are all mysteries, which constantly rely on his intellect to figure out the next clue and move the plot forward. Batman is a much larger, all-encompassing sort of archetype so filmmakers have to pick and choose which aspects to emphasize more in order to make a coherent film. A film doesn't have the luxury of something like TAS where you can have a villain of the week and let them each test Batman in different ways, thus showing off different skills.

 

[redfirebird2008]

^ Its noticable to me too, and why I feel that Batman has yet to have his Christopher Reeve or RDJ, and also why people think Batman's villains steal the show in the movies. Batman is watered down, yet villains like Joker and Catwoman get shown in all their glory.

The Reeve/RDJ thing is also partially because Supes and Iron Man have weak villain rosters compared to Batman.

 

[rashad]

Basically.

 

[Shikamaru]

The reason for all of this is pretty simple: movie adaptations of Batman so far have treated him as an action hero first, detective second. That's because they have all primarily been constructed as action films.

I don't think fans of "The World's Greatest Detective" are ever going to get that Batman on film until WB is willing to get behind a Batman film that's primarily constructed as a noir mystery/detective film. A movie that's willing to sacrifice an action beat for a 5 minute scene of Bruce and Alfred doing some forensics work in the cave.

I mean, TDK is probably the most detective oriented Batman film we've seen. And look at the way the biggest detective "set piece" (fingahprintz) is treated. It's kind of skimmed over and dealt with via a montage that's intercut with the totally unrelated plot point of Reese. The reason for this? Nolan probably didn't want the movie to come to a stall, so he wisely kept the forward momentum going by dealing with two subplots simultaneously. It will take a movie that's willing to dig in deep in those sorts of scenes and get more science-y, rather than skim over them. It'd be a different type of Batman movie. The reason Sherlock is able to look like the world's greatest detective all the time is because his stories are all mysteries, which constantly rely on his intellect to figure out the next clue and move the plot forward. Batman is a much larger, all-encompassing sort of archetype so filmmakers have to pick and choose which aspects to emphasize more in order to make a coherent film. A film doesn't have the luxury of something like TAS where you can have a villain of the week and let them each test Batman in different ways, thus showing off different skills.

TDK is the most detective oriented out of them all indeed. That's my problem though lol. When your most detective oriented film has not much detective work to begin with and displays Batman's intelligence as sub-genius at best, there is a problem.

I don't think that you have to sacrifice action in order to establish that. The current Sherlock Holmes films are very action oriented yet still display Holmes' intellect to the fullest. Heck, I wouldn't even consider the Nolan films to be too action oriented. There is a lot of suspense and the plot is constantly doing something (also a lot of chase scenes ) but there is really not that much direct fighting between Batman and other characters. If anything, the newest Sherlock Holmes films have more footage of Holmes directly fighting someone.

Plus the detective side of Batman is only a part of the problem. There is more to Batman's genius than just that. Batman's intelligence in general is very downplayed and toned down in the movies. I would categorize Keaton's Batman and Bale's Batman as sub-geniuses at best. The problem extends to the physical side as well. We have yet to see a Batman that displays Batman's full fighting abilities. Batman has moved too slow in live-action for the most part (though I consider this to be more of a directing flaw as opposed to a flaw in the context of the story).

At the very least though, the actor should carry himself as if his particular Batman is a genius. Many characters that don't show off their intelligence a lot in the plot due to the plot not requiring it are still established to the audience as being geniuses solely from the way the actor carries himself. RDJ's Iron Man has this to an extent. Even when not displaying his intelligence, Batman should intimidate you as the viewer of ever getting into an argument with him. I'm not talking about when he confronts random crooks at night, of course. I'm talking about when he talks with Gordon, other cops, other superheroes, etc. As I said before, something in the words he uses and in his speaking pattern should give off that vibe. The more I think about this, the more I think that Batman is actually one of the hardest superheroes to pull off acting-wise.

The Reeve/RDJ thing is also partially because Supes and Iron Man have weak villain rosters compared to Batman.

"A hero is only as good as his villains."

 

[shauner111]

However, I disagree that TDK/TDKR's Batman was the thinky/intellectual Batman. He was by no means an idiot and was smarter than in BB but he never felt like he had genius level intellect or that he was the world's greatest detective, something I felt was true about all live-action versions of Batman so far. Batman's intellect is on par with Sherlock Holmes' and several DC characters consider him to be the best tactician in the world. Heck, Superman went as far as to call Batman the most dangerous man in the world.

It is a bit ironic that Superman often gets a bad rep for being overpowered yet Superman was adapted in all his might and glory in two different Superman franchises already (even Cavill's version is not that watered down if you read the John Byrne run) while Batman still has to appear on the big screen in all his might and glory.

But, who cares! I mean, this isn't the comics. As long as he's doing detective work. Im sure we'll get the world's greatest detective in the future reboot and it will be mainly highlighted through a mystery story involving the Riddler. But I wouldn't go around expecting it to happen. It's not about getting every detail right from the comics. That's never going to happen because Batman is too big and the general audience matters more than the fans in these cases. Unless you have an entire detective/mystery story I cant see a director putting a strong emphasis on detective work for half of a Batman movie. I would honestly get bored with that. Id rather a good story that involves many characters, than see Batman in the cave on his computer for more than a couple of scenes. This is why Keaton's and Bale 's versions worked. You weren't beaten over the head with the "world's greatest detective". On film if you make him out to be too much like Sherlock Holmes, the humanity slowly starts getting lost when you make him out to be the most genius man on the planet. It works for us because we know he's a monster in human form at times and has these genius qualities but the general audience are used to a Batman who is much more down to earth. They can relate to film Bruce Wayne and it's a strong reason why these movies are successful. The people see that he's smart and trained but they can be like this guy if they had money and got fit....that's the relatability the public responds to. The details in the comics/animation honestly don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

If they're doing an Arkham Asylum adaptation or riddler crime story, then yes, I can see those stories showing his intellect in all its glory. That's cool. But I don't see it happening at any other point. Not zoned in on as you're hoping.

I just don't think it matters to be that detailed with it. TDK had the most so far, but even that wasn't any more than a few select scenes. They don't make him out to be Sherlock Holmes, and I think it helps in live-action. Animation you can dive head first into all that stuff and it works for that medium for THAT target audience.

 

[BatLobster]

TDK is the most detective oriented out of them all indeed. That's my problem though lol. When your most detective oriented film has not much detective work to begin with and displays Batman's intelligence as sub-genius at best, there is a problem.

I know that's your problem, I just wanted to examine the way they treat the detective work in that film and why that might be.

I don't think that you have to sacrifice action in order to establish that. The current Sherlock Holmes films are very action oriented yet still display Holmes' intellect to the fullest. Heck, I wouldn't even consider the Nolan films to be too action oriented. There is a lot of suspense and the plot is constantly doing something (also a lot of chase scenes ) but there is really not that much direct fighting between Batman and other characters. If anything, the newest Sherlock Holmes films have more footage of Holmes directly fighting someone.

True, I did think of the new Sherlock films but there's still a different element at play there. Sherlock is an vain character which is an important character trait, his exaggerated intelligence helps play that up. Bruce isn't. His primary motivation is justice and the intelligence is just there to support that. Plus I feel like with Sherlock the action is just there to help him get out of tough situations, and it's more comedy based. Nothing like the huge set pieces we saw in the Nolan Bat-films. Sherlock's not someone who goes out there looking to inflict a beating on his enemies. In short, Sherlock Holmes =/= Bruce Wayne. They're different characters in different genres.

That's why I personally don't need to see a shrine built to his genius in the movies. Let Spider-Man be the genius superhero in the GA's eye. I'm totally cool with Batman being sub-genius. Not that I oppose the idea of them playing up his intelligence more in a movie, I'm just cool with either approach and think they each have their benefits.

Plus the detective side of Batman is only a part of the problem. There is more to Batman's genius than just that. Batman's intelligence in general is very downplayed and toned down in the movies. I would categorize Keaton's Batman and Bale's Batman as sub-geniuses at best. The problem extends to the physical side as well. We have yet to see a Batman that displays Batman's full fighting abilities. Batman has moved too slow in live-action for the most part (though I consider this to be more of a directing flaw as opposed to a flaw in the context of the story).

At the very least though, the actor should carry himself as if his particular Batman is a genius. Many characters that don't show off their intelligence a lot in the plot due to the plot not requiring it are still established to the audience as being geniuses solely from the way the actor carries himself. RDJ's Iron Man has this to an extent. Even when not displaying his intelligence, Batman should intimidate you as the viewer of ever getting into an argument with him. I'm not talking about when he confronts random crooks at night, of course. I'm talking about when he talks with Gordon, other cops, other superheroes, etc. As I said before, something in the words he uses and in his speaking pattern should give off that vibe. The more I think about this, the more I think that Batman is actually one of the hardest superheroes to pull off acting-wise.

I thought Batman's phraseology was sufficiently intelligent sounding in the Nolan films, haha. I gave a couple examples a few posts back. I guess I get a kick out of a guy saying things like "psychotropic hallucinogen" in a badass growly voice. I don't want Batman to sound like a lab geek when he talks though. There's a fine line there.

The thing about "BatGod" is, in a film it's tricky to pull off a character that's always right and is basically omniscient in his intelligence, while at the same time making him a character that the audience can connect and relate with. So I agree, it's a very hard role for an actor to play. My thought is that "BatGod" would much work more in a film that focused on a young Dick Grayson under the tutelage of a seasoned, intimidating father figure in Bruce. in other words, if Batman was not the main character. I'd personally love to see a film like that, not sure if we'll ever get it though