The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Part 148

[shauner111]

Actually, now that you mention it, it does kind of bother me how easily people can just hop into Batman's vehicles and drive them with ease.

Atleast Gordon had some difficulty/fear driving around in the Tumbler (which, I'll admit, is sort of stupid along with the microwave emitter, I'll give you that). But Catwoman? She gets on it and instantly "gets it", not to mention all the missiles it seems to come with despite only having two canons.

I still abide by the idea that Joker can do all those things he does in TDK because he's the Joker. The buses? He timed it perfectly and has an almost insane intellect level. He owns half the city (the muscle, the gangs, the mob and the police) and stages everything meticulously. From bombs in stomachs to blown up hospitals, he's thought it all through. Catwoman driving a vehicle that makes a loud, unending whirring sound in an area with crystal clear visibility with it's windows? Well, I can only suspend my disbelief so far. She should have been in their on foot, with pistol in hand.

LMAO. All that stuff is fine but Catwoman is too far? alllriiighty then.

And you say he's the Joker and that's it, he's an intellectual guy and thought it all through so we can cut him some slack yet you and everyone else can't cut Bruce some slack for getting back into Gotham. The billionaire with connections, insane intellect, ninja training, etc.

Again, it just sounds like you desperately want to hate the movie.

 

[shauner111]

Bane went out like a *****. Very disappointing. For me, it's not so much that Catwoman kills him, but rather they way it happened. I never considered milost's observations about Bane not noticing her, and while it does sound ridiculous, it's just one of those things where you have to accept that this is a movie and silly things happen in it.

I liked it because i felt he deserved to go out like a *****.

 

[georgec]

I liked it because i felt he deserved to go out like a *****.

Yup. He let down his guard and chose a cowardly way to kill Batman.

I'm still curious how else Bane should have died...

 

[milost]

LMAO. All that stuff is fine but Catwoman is too far? alllriiighty then.

And you say he's the Joker and that's it, he's an intellectual guy and thought it all through so we can cut him some slack yet you and everyone else can't cut Bruce some slack for getting back into Gotham. The billionaire with connections, insane intellect, ninja training, etc.

Joker wasn't completely cut off from the city being watched by an army of mercs and police officers with itchy trigger fingers for blowing apart bridges. The city in Dark Knight wasn't surrounded by ice either.

The Dark Knight set up the rules and played by them. TDKR? One minute it's, "nobody can come in or out without dire consequences" then, the game somehow changes towards the end when our hero comes back and we conveniently have a special, secret entrance for our heroes to escape (which doesn't even ALLOW them to escape from said, itchy trigger fingered cops).

Also, Bruce isn't a billionaire with connections anymore by TDKR. He lost everything, remember? One ally left him, the other one was imprisoned within the confines of the city. Insane intellect? Uh, when? I seem to recall Fox being the one giving him all the insane inventions like the grapple gun, Tumbler, suits, the Bat, Sonar, etc. I recall Fox being the one to crack the formula for the fear toxin or creating the Bat, etc. True, Bruce helped produce the Sonar technology (took my concept and applied it . . . ) and made the autopilot work, but is that REALLY insane intellect? Hell, it was even Fox's idea to do the sky hook! And if so, let's say Bruce is SUPER DUPER smart, does that even help get back into the city when the rules of the movie state that it's too damn hard?

Comic and BTAS Batman maybe, but not the movie Batmen. Not even Keaton who cracked the Joker toxins himself or could build a Batmobile from scratch (and seemingly built his own arsenal) struck me as having INSANE intellect.


The story says nobody comes in or out. Every character, especially Bane establishes this idea. When we see the Special Forces come in, they're killed off no sooner than they arrive (humorously almost). When we see Blake and the orphans try to leave, the bridges are blown. The movie makes the audiences take note that NOBODY gets into the city, not without trouble. Then Bruce Wayne, our battered hero without a vehicle, a butler, a suit or ANY money, thousands of miles away from Gotham JUST shows up. There's a reason people have a problem with it. It's because everything above was set up but it's just somehow an easy task. It sort of diminishes the threats in the movie.

Now if you showed me him coming into the city in a brilliantly choreographed scene that mirrored Batman Begins' training scene, then I might have shut up,

But, it didn't.



So yeah, I can take Joker doing all the things he was doing and buy it, and not Bruce Wayne. Even with his "INSANE intellect" (was Batman really smarter than the Joker without Fox?) . Batman had faith in people, that's what won that battle. It wasn't him that stopped those ferries.

 

[Andrew Lucas]

Man i totaly loved Bale Batman... This is the best Batman saga in the screen ever, because of it i started buying Batman actual comics... Never been much DC fan (just batman) but because of the movie i am now,just finished watching TDK (4 time) and its fantastic, best Batman movie.

 

[C. Lee]

I still have to say....to me, TDKR was not only the worst of the trilogy, but to me it was one of the worst movies of any genre made. Just stating my opinion.

 

[Anita18]

I still have to say....to me, TDKR was not only the worst of the trilogy, but to me it was one of the worst movies of any genre made. Just stating my opinion.

Is it under or over Son of the Mask (#49)?

 

[georgec]

Super Mario Bros movie >>>>>> TDKR

 

[C. Lee]

Is it under or over Son of the Mask (#49)?

I was going by my own grouping....but that link is interesting, I'll have to see how many of them I have watched.

 

[I Am The Knight]

I liked it because i felt he deserved to go out like a *****.

I would've preferred if his death was handled in a similar fashion to Ra's' in BB was (minus the whole "I don't have to save you" thing) since they were going "full circle" with TDKR. It just felt anticlimatic because he was built up as this incredible badass, but then he gets dispatched like a simple thug for the sake of a punchline. Scarecrow had a more memorable sendoff during the first 15 minutes of TDK!

 

[DyeLorean]

I still have to say....to me, TDKR was not only the worst of the trilogy, but to me it was one of the worst movies of any genre made. Just stating my opinion.

Well, I'm glad somebody else said that. At least I know I'm not crazy.

 

[DACrowe]

I still have to say....to me, TDKR was not only the worst of the trilogy, but to me it was one of the worst movies of any genre made. Just stating my opinion.

That is cool. In my opinion it is better than any movie Marvel Studios has ever produced. I imagine that too would ruffle some feathers around here, which is a good thing.

 

[shauner111]

That is cool. In my opinion it is better than any movie Marvel Studios has ever produced. I imagine that too would ruffle some feathers around here, which is a good thing.

Even if one doesn't like the story..the directing, cinematography, acting is still a thousand times ahead of any Marvel movie out there. As a film lover ill always take the best filmmaking over a fun popcorn movie, unless it's strictly an art-house movie with zero story then ill take the fun action flick. But TDKR had better acting and character development than a good chunk of the fun blockbusters out there even if one didnt enjoy the plot.

That's why i cant understand somebody saying it's the worst of any genre. That just doesn't make too much sense to me personally. But different strokes for different folks.

I felt emotion from the story, felt inspired, and loved the filmmaking. It's still my favorite film of 2012 despite its flaws. Even over The Master, Django Unchained, Skyfall and Looper which i loved that year.

 

[shauner111]

I would've preferred if his death was handled in a similar fashion to Ra's' in BB was (minus the whole "I don't have to save you" thing) since they were going "full circle" with TDKR. It just felt anticlimatic because he was built up as this incredible badass, but then he gets dispatched like a simple thug for the sake of a punchline. Scarecrow had a more memorable sendoff during the first 15 minutes of TDK!

K i can see your point but that would have worked if Talia wasn't involved. But she was. So with her there, it served the story to have it come full circle with Ras daughter and dispose of Bane quickly. I still would have loved for Heath's Joker to have escaped Arkham during the breakout and have HIM be the dude who shoots Bane in the skull, saving Batman in a twisted way. But we know why that couldnt be. So i enjoyed Bane's death because his massive ego was flattened.

 

[Tequilla]

I got the blu-ray trilogy collector's edition for Christmas and watched the two lengthy special features. They were really quite good, especially the making of documentary. There is much praise lavished on the movies and Chris Nolan, but I gotta say that I agreed with it all. This is a modern classic up there with the other hallowed trilogies.

I wanted to buy the set for Christmas...still expensive as hell. Was hoping it would have dropped a bit already.

 

[Tequilla]

Man i totaly loved Bale Batman... This is the best Batman saga in the screen ever, because of it i started buying Batman actual comics... Never been much DC fan (just batman) but because of the movie i am now,just finished watching TDK (4 time) and its fantastic, best Batman movie.

That's awesome dude

The more batman fans the better. I actually know a bunch of people who weren't even comic fans , that started to get interested in the whole genre because of this batman trilogy.

 

[Two-Face]

I still have to say....to me, TDKR was not only the worst of the trilogy, but to me it was one of the worst movies of any genre made. Just stating my opinion.

Really? I know TDKR is weakest of the trilogy. if you look at other comic book movies BF, B&R Catwoman, SM3, X3 etc. but come on TDKR isn't that bad.

 

[BatLobster]

Sorry C. Lee, obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but that's one of the most hyperbolic statements I've seen regarding the movie. I don't even think the biggest TDKR detractor on these forums, milost, would say TDKR was one of the worst movies ever made. In my opinion that takes things like performances, cinematography, score...basically everything else that goes into filmmaking besides the script off the table. And in evaluating films I think you have to take everything into consideration...everything that contributes to building the world of the story.

Again, that's your opinion and you're entitled to it however extreme it may be.

But I'll have to follow in DACrowe's footsteps and state my own opinion- that TDKR is not only of higher calibre than anything Marvel Studios has ever produced, but also leagues better than Man of Steel.

In fact at the moment, I consider it the second greatest comic book movie of all time.

 

[georgec]

At first glance last night I thought C. Lee was being sarcastic or facetious. Alas I was wrong.

 

[BatLobster]

And I just wanna say something to clarify my stance before I get clobbered by MoS fans for my statement...

If people can write off TDKR because they didn't like things about the script, then I feel justified in writing off MoS because I found the visual style cumbersome to my eyes...and film is a visual medium after all. Give me one, crisp, gorgeous IMAX freeze frame of TDKR over any of the undersaturated, overly shaky, overly contrasty, constantly snap zooming, lens flare-ridden images of MoS. Seriously, when I watch TDKR I want to pause it just to take in the lushness of the cinematography. Whereas with MoS I'm cringing half of the time because it looks like a Michael Bay movie and a JJ Abrams movie had an evil lovechild.

I know this is neither here nor there, and I do think MoS has some redeeming qualities, but it just frustrates me that TDKR doesn't get enough credit for its visuals because I think it shows how much Nolan has grown as a large scale filmmaker since Begins. IMO Batman Returns and TDKR are the two best Batman movies from a pure visual standpoint.

 

[Shikamaru]

Funny you think that yet Joker did more personal damage to Batman's life than Bane ever did. He didn't need to get Batman's secret identity handed to him by the LOS to do it either.

This.

Joker killed the "White Knight" and Batman's love, crushed Gotham's spirit, and turned the whole city against Batman....all using entirely just his wits. Furthermore, Bane had everything handed to him by the LOS and carried out most of Talia's work yet still never achieved the same effect. On the other hand, what did the Joker have initially? Yes, Bane "broke" Batman but a Batman way out of his prime whose identity was given to him and who was lured to him by Catwoman. The Joker managed to one-up a Batman in his prime.

I still stand by the following belief: If the Joker was present during the events of TDKR, he would have mopped the floor with both Bane and Talia.

In a way, I think the audience's thirst for seeing the Joker again was strengthened by Bane and Talia - not necessarily because "Oh they're so much less interesting than the Joker" (even though they are IMO) but because of their cockiness. Bane and Talia are easily the most cocky supervillains in the whole trilogy.

How does their cockiness create a larger desire for the Joker, you might ask? It is human nature for people to react that way to such characters. Studies have shown that whenever we are introduced to cocky "I am the best there is" characters, our gut reaction is to wish for someone in the same field to come and teach them a lesson. If we watch a film where a character with spider powers bullies other people and sees himself as better than everyone else, our gut reaction is to wish for Peter Parker to show up and teach him a lesson. If we read a DC comic where Kryptonians invade another planet because they believe they have the right to do that because they're the "superior race", our gut reaction is to wish for Superman to show up and teach them a lesson. Heck, let's take it a step further...the Nazis. Perhaps the cockiest army in human history. They believed they were the greatest "race" there was, that they were destined to rule the world, and that everyone else wasn't human. Today, how many people do you know that love to watch movies where the Nazis get their asses handed to them by American troops?

Going back to TDKR....when we watch the sequel to TDK where the main villains are the cockiest in the trilogy but are nowhere on par with the Joker when it comes to wits and supervillainy, people's gut reaction is immediately "Ugh, why isn't the Joker here right now?" .

 

[BatLobster]

That's exactly why it was poetic justice for Bane to get his via a catburglar on a bike. And deliciously ironic considering he gets mowed down by a true champion of the 99% he was falsely championing...after being defeated and humiliated by a 1 percenter that proved to be a bigger BAMF than he was.

Don't forget...Hitler went out like a b**** too and had a pathetic end.

And no, that doesn't mean Bane should've committed suicide in TDKR.

 

[Travesty]

C Lee isn't being hyperbolic, it's his opinion, so it's how he feels it in his bones and stuff....


NAILED IT!

 

[BatLobster]

If he felt it in his bones and stuff, he should have explicitly pointed that out. There's no counterargument to be made once someone plays that card.

 

[shauner111]

And I just wanna say something to clarify my stance before I get clobbered by MoS fans for my statement...

If people can write off TDKR because they didn't like things about the script, then I feel justified in writing off MoS because I found the visual style cumbersome to my eyes...and film is a visual medium after all. Give me one, crisp, gorgeous IMAX freeze frame of TDKR over any of the undersaturated, overly shaky, overly contrasty, constantly snap zooming, lens flare-ridden images of MoS. Seriously, when I watch TDKR I want to pause it just to take in the lushness of the cinematography. Whereas with MoS I'm cringing half of the time because it looks like a Michael Bay movie and a JJ Abrams movie had an evil lovechild.

I know this is neither here nor there, and I do think MoS has some redeeming qualities, but it just frustrates me that TDKR doesn't get enough credit for its visuals because I think it shows how much Nolan has grown as a large scale filmmaker since Begins. IMO Batman Returns and TDKR are the two best Batman movies from a pure visual standpoint.

I will always really enjoy MOS as i think it's one of the best comic book movies in a long line of horrible ones. But i cringe watching how that movie was filmed. I'll take a professional (Nolan) over an amateur (Snyder) any day of the week. Zack covers up his lack of finesse with his talents that he has in effects & fight sequences. Take away all the modern technology and you have a pretty bad filmmaker in Zack Snyder. Even if i like his personality and think he casts well 80 percent of the time.

Ill also take the emotion from Nolan's TDKR and character development over MOS because as much as i enjoyed those scenes with Clark, it always felt rushed just so Zack can get back to a action sequence.

Like Kristian Harloff from the SchmoesKnow Podcast said recently, about Rises.."how did Bruce Wayne get back to Gotham? I dont know and i dont care, i love the film and i love Nolan's filmmaking".

C Lee isn't being hyperbolic, it's his opinion, so it's how he feels it in his bones and stuff....


NAILED IT!

That joke and the way you word it every 2 weeks got old about a year ago.