The Dark Knight Rises The TDKR General Discussion Thread - - - - Part 153

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I hear BvS will be the first film to issue nightvision goggles? :funny:

Seriously though I love the designs of Batfleck and his gear much more than Nolans but Nolans was still good. It looks like a combination of realism and comicbook stuff which is right up my street.

All they need to do is fix emo Superman and that'll be great!
 
My main concern is that BvS wilk feel like Justice Leauge Lite and not a MOS sequel with Batman in it not to mention MOS main draw back which was the very grim nature IMO.

This teaser was very Superman focused with some Batman which is what I wanted!
 
My main concern is that BvS wilk feel like Justice Leauge Lite and not a MOS sequel with Batman in it not to mention MOS main draw back which was the very grim nature IMO.

The teaser literally made it seem like this will be a MOS sequel with Batman in it, with no focus or hints on any other heroes or the concept of the Justice League. Why so concerned?


This teaser was very Superman focused with some Batman which is what I wanted!

Ah, yes. Exactly. :up:
 
That's true. If we knew nothing about this movie and didn't see the title at the end...we would think it's the new Superman movie and maybe Batman was the villain.
 
The teaser literally made it seem like this will be a MOS sequel with Batman in it, with no focus or hints on any other heroes or the concept of the Justice League. Why so concerned?

And the MOS teaser and even most trailers (except for the Nokia one) showed mostly scenes from the first half of the movie, hiding most of the action. It seemed like a very different film that what we got. I suspect BvS will be the same, since Batman and WW will have to join Superman and they will have to fight something in the third act, not to mention set up the JL film. I presume the Batman Vs Superman conflict will take place mostly in the first halft of the movie.
 
The teaser literally made it seem like this will be a MOS sequel with Batman in it, with no focus or hints on any other heroes or the concept of the Justice League. Why so concerned?

I meant that was my main concern about the film itself, not the impression the trailer gave me.

Should have made it more clear, sorry!
 
I don't quite agree with people still calling this a Superman sequel. It's partial sequel, partial spinoff IMO. When a new character/actor comes in and gets top billing both in the title and credits, it starts to become something other than just a sequel.

The film seems to be ABOUT Batman just as much as it's ABOUT Superman's place in the world and the false God angle, etc.

It IS a sequel in that it is a further exploration of the world and themes established in MoS, no doubt. But I feel like this will just as much be about setting up what's to come, hence the Dawn of Justice.
 
I don't quite agree with people still calling this a Superman sequel. It's partial sequel, partial spinoff IMO. When a new character/actor comes in and gets top billing both in the title and credits, it starts to become something other than just a sequel.

The film seems to be ABOUT Batman just as much as it's ABOUT Superman's place in the world and the false God angle, etc.

It IS a sequel in that it is a further exploration of the world and themes established in MoS, no doubt. But I feel like this will just as much be about setting up what's to come, hence the Dawn of Justice.
Sounds accurate.

I do think it's 50/50 between the two characters but going by what the trailer is selling, it seems like a Superman sequel featuring Batman. Even if that's not quite the case. The themes they're diving into here feel like a logical next step. Something a MOS sequel would have done anyway. Only Lex Luthor isn't the only antagonist to Superman, Batman is as well. At least for the bulk of the film. Maybe that changes at the end but for now they're selling it like Batman is the "villain" of the piece.

It's a sequel to Man Of Steel but it's also a setup/prequel to Justice League.

Once they do another Superman movie (my guess? 6 years from now) it would be weird to call it the sequel to MOS. It will be more like a sequel to Justice League Part 2 at that point. It won't be following the events of the 2013 story, so i guess technically Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice should be seen as a sequel.
 
Yeah, I agree shauner. It's like how Iron Man 3 was more of a sequel to The Avengers than it was to Iron Man 2 really...par for the course in this cinematic universe world.
 
I don't quite agree with people still calling this a Superman sequel. It's partial sequel, partial spinoff IMO. When a new character/actor comes in and gets top billing both in the title and credits, it starts to become something other than just a sequel.

The film seems to be ABOUT Batman just as much as it's ABOUT Superman's place in the world and the false God angle, etc.

It IS a sequel in that it is a further exploration of the world and themes established in MoS, no doubt. But I feel like this will just as much be about setting up what's to come, hence the Dawn of Justice.


Exactly, but to say it's NOT a sequel to MOS would obviously be inaccurate. It's not a sequel in the traditional sense, but seems to still be very much a sequel in that (as you said) it looks like a direct continuation of the events of MOS.

Also, we don't really know what Batman's role in all of this will be just yet.
 
If I were gleaning everything about the movie just from the teaser I would think that it was clearly a Superman-centered story wherein Batman is kind of the bad guy. A definite sequel to MOS (this was definitely the best aspect of the teaser). But then the title clearly suggests this is proto-Justice League and then you factor in the presence of all the other JL members and you get something a lot more complicated and not necessarily about Superman.
 
Well, to be fair Flash and Green Lantern aren't in this movie. Cyborg may have a quick cameo, depending on what they decide to keep in the final cut. Aquaman makes an appearance (i think), so im assuming that's a cameo. Wonder Woman, probably small compared to the bigger characters (Lois as well), but still a decent sized role. Im sure Diana is in this a lot less than we think.

So yes, it's the Dawn of Justice but im pretty confident that this won't be some giant commercial for that movie. At least i hope so.

I still have a problem with the cinematography in MOS as well as the dialogue, a bit of the writing as a whole too. But i still enjoy that movie. Seems like those two areas will be fixed with Fong & Terrio. If Batman v Superman can "fix" the problems in that film by using the destruction and poor judgement on Kal-El's part, then i may like MOS even more. It would almost give the destruction a reason to be there.

I told myself i wouldn't get too optimistic after the trailers because Zack always does this. But i really loved the teaser because it told a quick story. I got pumped for the MOS trailers, even the later ones, but they were just image and image hitting you over the head and i went into it wanting the most epic thing ever (outside of TDK trilogy of course). I should have known because of Goyer. But i jumped to conclusions. So now im half expecting another MOS, but im also hoping that it's insanely well-done all around.

Zack has the best crew that he's ever had..
 
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I think it's definitely a Superman-centered story...in that Superman's presence on Earth is kind of the inciting incident for everything that will follow including how Batman reacts. I also think they're framing the movie in a way where fans of each character can root for their favorite and feel justified in doing so. Superman may not have intentionally done anything to deserve Batman's wrath, but the vibe I get from the teaser is that Superman by his very nature might be bringing out some troubling aspects of humanity that Batman would oppose, and bringing the demigod down to humanity's level (making him bleed) could very well be the best thing for the world AND Superman in the long run. And Superman's point of view is naturally sympathetic...he's a fundamentally good person trying to do the right thing. I see the seeds of a compelling conflict that encourages you to think about it and choose your own side. Not a traditional protagonist vs. antagonist conflict.

To me, you don't call the movie Batman v Superman if the movie isn't about both of them equally unless it's just a marketing stunt, but I honestly don't believe that. It's a sequel but with a HUGE asterisk.
 
Well, color me impressed with the trailer. You can't reproach Snyder's visuals, he really knows how to set up a piece. Batman looks great, like a Miller drawing come to life. The scene with Superman on the sky with the sun behind me looks a lot like a panel from All-Star Superman.

Since we are talking about the sequel nature of the film, I must add that in the beginning this was going to be a MOS "clean" sequel, then throwing Bats into the mix, then came the name, first billing Batman (which by the nature of the film seems accurate, because apparently is Batman who incites this battle), and then adding other JL members too. This troubles me a lot, because it seems that, at least in the beginning, they had no roadmap and they were making it as they went. However, it seems that the path has been cleared.

It gives me hope that Chris Terrio rewrote the script. Listen, I haven't seen his work but it seems like he has good credentials. Goyer is good with a lot of ideas, but the execution seems lacking. TDKT was mainly the Nolan brothers with creative input by Goyer, and that combo was great. Man of Steel showed some carelessness choices from both him and Snyder, so I was wary about this one.

Digging deeply in the story so far, the main beef I had with Man of Steel was that it was a film that talked a lot about hope, but it didn't show it. The ending was particularly abrupt and the nature of the film was somewhat grim. Sure, the scene I liked the most was Superman learning to fly, the remembrance of little Clark with the cape (even though I think the film mishandled Jonathan Kent role, paling in comparison with the original Superman film version). At the end, a single "He saved us" from the Jenny character didn't do enough.

Parting from that, it seems that in BvS context, Superman has definitely inspired people. But it seems that this inspiration is wrong headed. It is certainly an interesting interpretation, but I just hope it is a balanced belief. We see some "Hope" branded soldiers kneeling before Superman, people trying to reach to him in a sort of deifying way. Seems a analogue to the Batman Copy-Cats from TDK. It is a must for people to see Superman as a true symbol of hope, but this suggest this inspiration is corrupted.

There is a question though. What does Superman do to warrant Batman's intervention? Is it the wrong attitude of the people for Superman? Is it something that Superman does? I just hope we don't get a Miller treatment for Superman too. How much does the destruction of a third of Metropolis has to do with Batman's motivation to fight? What is Lex Luthor role in all of these? And, what purpose does the fight has? Is it to stop him? Because even in TDKReturns the intent was to make a point to the world, I wonder if this is the case.

The movie is promising a lot of complex issues, I really hope it delivers. I'll be wary optimistic for the time on.
 
And, what purpose does the fight has? Is it to stop him? Because even in TDKReturns the intent was to make a point to the world, I wonder if this is the case.

My gut says it's exactly something like that. I don't think it will necessarily be personal at all, though it could be. The teaser paints a picture that the issue is more about Superman as a concept than Superman as a man. But we shall see.
 
Someone mentioned that this movie seems to be a reverse-TDKR of sorts in that instead of Batman being the center of political bickering it's Superman. I think that's interesting.
 
I too think have been thinking that's exactly what it is, and the teaser very much further reinforced that impression.
 
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Following up on the "sequel or not?" discussion...here's what Cavill had to say about that (at 2:21):

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